YouTube - We Still Don’t Know How Bicycles Work

On 26/01/2021 02:17, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 3:44:02 PM UTC-6,
wrote:

Why don't you tell us about that math that can measure the
circumference of an oval?
Google is your friend: the formula is PI * SquareRoot of 2 * ((1/2
long axis)squared + (1/2 short axis)squared). Or even easier:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/circumelli...0axis)squared).

Is that not an approximation...?

On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 5:17:55 PM UTC-8, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 3:44:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:

Why don't you tell us about that math that can measure the circumference of an oval?
Google is your friend: the formula is PI * SquareRoot of 2 * ((1/2 long axis)squared + (1/2 short axis)squared).
Or even easier: http://www.csgnetwork.com/circumelli...0axis)squared).
Steve, did you notice the part that said, "This calculator is designed to give the approximate circumference of any ellipse."? There is no formula for finding the circumference of an oval. Mathematics like most other sciences are limited in scope. We cannot even measure the actual orbit of the Earth after how many millennia?

On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 11:02:01 PM UTC-8, Tosspot wrote:
On 26/01/2021 02:17, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 3:44:02 PM UTC-6,
wrote:

Why don't you tell us about that math that can measure the
circumference of an oval?
Google is your friend: the formula is PI * SquareRoot of 2 * ((1/2
long axis)squared + (1/2 short axis)squared). Or even easier:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/circumelli...0axis)squared).
Is that not an approximation...?
Well, do you remember the old TV series "Science In Action"? This was a programs in which they explained the limitations of the various sciences and that mathematics was one of the most limited of all.

A couple of days ago Yahoo had an article in which a "scientist" claimed that a passing meteor was proof of an alien civilization because he couldn't calculate why the orbit accelerated in a manner that you didn't understand. Gravity assisted orbits have been used for a hundred years not to approximate the speed and direction of satellites. We presently have one that is "probably" moving into interstellar space. In another article we were told that we got alien radio signals from Proxima Centauri. This, as its name implies is the closes star to Sol and is a Red Dwarf without any known planets. That would make any difference anyway because it is so small it is bleeding most of its mass away rapidly without sufficient gravity to hold onto it which means that if there were a planet, it would be so radiated with IR that it would be red hot. We haven't observed Proxima Centauri long enough but it is probable that it is a satellite of Alpha Centauri A and B, a binary pair of slightly larger Sol type of stars. Due to these orbits no planet could form life since every 25,000 years or so it would be super-radiated with IR.

This is the sort of crap that is being sold to the stupid and those without natural skepticism. The sort of thing that John and Peter gobble up.

Steve, did you notice the part that said, "This calculator is designed to give the approximate circumference of any ellipse."? There is no formula for finding the circumference of an oval. Mathematics like most other sciences are limited in scope. We cannot even measure the actual orbit of the Earth after how many millennia?

Yes, but it seems good enough for "Government Work" ;-)
Sort of irritating that it says "approximate" without indicating *how* approximate.
There's a more accurate formula he https://sciencing.com/calculate-circ...l-5948695.html
Science may have its limitations, but it's the best tool we have for finding out how stuff works.

On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 10:22:31 AM UTC-8, Steve Weeks wrote:
Steve, did you notice the part that said, "This calculator is designed to give the approximate circumference of any ellipse."? There is no formula for finding the circumference of an oval. Mathematics like most other sciences are limited in scope. We cannot even measure the actual orbit of the Earth after how many millennia?
Yes, but it seems good enough for "Government Work" ;-)
Sort of irritating that it says "approximate" without indicating *how* approximate.
There's a more accurate formula he https://sciencing.com/calculate-circ...l-5948695.html
Science may have its limitations, but it's the best tool we have for finding out how stuff works.
Depending on the shape and the size of the ellipse it can range from slightly approximate to so far off you couldn't believe it.

On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 10:22:31 AM UTC-8, Steve Weeks wrote:
Steve, did you notice the part that said, "This calculator is designed to give the approximate circumference of any ellipse."? There is no formula for finding the circumference of an oval. Mathematics like most other sciences are limited in scope. We cannot even measure the actual orbit of the Earth after how many millennia?
Yes, but it seems good enough for "Government Work" ;-)
Sort of irritating that it says "approximate" without indicating *how* approximate.
There's a more accurate formula he https://sciencing.com/calculate-circ...l-5948695.html
Science may have its limitations, but it's the best tool we have for finding out how stuff works.
I should add that a part of what is called "man made climate change" is due almost entirely to the elliptical orbit of the Earth about the Sun and the manner of the Earth being tilted on its axis in relation to the Sun.

Steve, did you notice the part that said, "This calculator is designed to give the approximate circumference of any ellipse."? There is no formula for finding the circumference of an oval. Mathematics like most other sciences are limited in scope. We cannot even measure the actual orbit of the Earth after how many millennia?

Yes, but it seems good enough for "Government Work" ;-)
Sort of irritating that it says "approximate" without indicating *how* approximate.
There's a more accurate formula he https://sciencing.com/calculate-circ...l-5948695.html
Science may have its limitations, but it's the best tool we have for finding out how stuff works.

First of all, "oval" is an imprecise term. Not all ovals are ellipses. A
typical oval race track, for example, is not an ellipse, and it's easy to
calculate its circumference.

Concerning ellipses, there are absolutely exact formulas for the circumference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipse#Circumference

The formulas are not in simple closed form, but that doesn't mean that they
don't exist, or that the problem is somehow beyond the scope of mathematics. If
understanding or implementing a mathematical solution is beyond the capabilities
of a particular individual, that's a different issue.

On 1/26/2021 1:47 PM, Bertrand wrote:
Steve, did you notice the part that said, "This calculator is
designed to give the approximate circumference of any ellipse."?
There is no formula for finding the circumference of an oval.
Mathematics like most other sciences are limited in scope. We cannot
even measure the actual orbit of the Earth after how many millennia?

Yes, but it seems good enough for "Government Work" ;-)
Sort of irritating that it says "approximate" without indicating *how*
approximate.
There's a more accurate formula he
https://sciencing.com/calculate-circ...l-5948695.html
Science may have its limitations, but it's the best tool we have for
finding out how stuff works.

First of all, "oval" is an imprecise term.Â* Not all ovals are ellipses.
A typical oval race track, for example, is not an ellipse, and it's easy
to calculate its circumference.

Concerning ellipses, there are absolutely exact formulas for the
circumference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipse#Circumference

The formulas are not in simple closed form, but that doesn't mean that
they don't exist, or that the problem is somehow beyond the scope of
mathematics.Â* If understanding or implementing a mathematical solution
is beyond the capabilities of a particular individual, that's a
different issue.

Let me add that my ancient bound copy of _Standard Handbook for
Mechanical Engineers_ (AKA Marks' Handbook) has on page 2-18 "Length of
perimeter of ellipse..." followed by three pretty simple formulas. The
trick is, the equation defining one constant K is a converging infinite
series.

The Handbook doesn't even blink an eye at this, figuratively speaking.
In practice, you simply evaluate K using as many terms as necessary to
generate the accuracy you need. This is perfectly acceptable, because in
the real physical world nothing is measured or manufactured to absolute
perfection.

However, infinite series may be incomprehensible to those with, shall we
say, limited education. I imagine the concept of Pi must also be
baffling to those people. ("You mean it goes on forever??? That means we
don't know it's value!!!")

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/26/2021 12:29 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 10:22:31 AM UTC-8, Steve Weeks wrote:
Steve, did you notice the part that said, "This calculator is designed to give the approximate circumference of any ellipse."? There is no formula for finding the circumference of an oval. Mathematics like most other sciences are limited in scope. We cannot even measure the actual orbit of the Earth after how many millennia?
Yes, but it seems good enough for "Government Work" ;-)
Sort of irritating that it says "approximate" without indicating *how* approximate.
There's a more accurate formula he https://sciencing.com/calculate-circ...l-5948695.html
Science may have its limitations, but it's the best tool we have for finding out how stuff works.
I should add that a part of what is called "man made climate change" is due almost entirely to the elliptical orbit of the Earth about the Sun and the manner of the Earth being tilted on its axis in relation to the Sun.


First you wrote 'oval' meaning 'ellipse'. Those are
different things (ellipses being a small subset of ovals) in
terms of Euclidean geometry.

I don't know what you mean by orbit but it's surely not an
actual ellipse.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/26/2021 1:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/26/2021 1:47 PM, Bertrand wrote:
Steve, did you notice the part that said, "This
calculator is designed to give the approximate
circumference of any ellipse."? There is no formula for
finding the circumference of an oval. Mathematics like
most other sciences are limited in scope. We cannot even
measure the actual orbit of the Earth after how many
millennia?

Yes, but it seems good enough for "Government Work" ;-)
Sort of irritating that it says "approximate" without
indicating *how* approximate.
There's a more accurate formula he
https://sciencing.com/calculate-circ...l-5948695.html

Science may have its limitations, but it's the best tool
we have for finding out how stuff works.

First of all, "oval" is an imprecise term. Not all ovals
are ellipses. A typical oval race track, for example, is
not an ellipse, and it's easy to calculate its circumference.

Concerning ellipses, there are absolutely exact formulas
for the circumference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipse#Circumference

The formulas are not in simple closed form, but that
doesn't mean that they don't exist, or that the problem is
somehow beyond the scope of mathematics. If
understanding or implementing a mathematical solution is
beyond the capabilities of a particular individual, that's
a different issue.

Let me add that my ancient bound copy of _Standard Handbook
for Mechanical Engineers_ (AKA Marks' Handbook) has on page
2-18 "Length of perimeter of ellipse..." followed by three
pretty simple formulas. The trick is, the equation defining
one constant K is a converging infinite series.

The Handbook doesn't even blink an eye at this, figuratively
speaking. In practice, you simply evaluate K using as many
terms as necessary to generate the accuracy you need. This
is perfectly acceptable, because in the real physical world
nothing is measured or manufactured to absolute perfection.

However, infinite series may be incomprehensible to those
with, shall we say, limited education. I imagine the concept
of Pi must also be baffling to those people. ("You mean it
goes on forever??? That means we don't know it's value!!!")


Well then, you're not approaching the problem correctly!

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971