Fun with exponents

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 2:33:45 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 1:21:34 PM UTC-7, AnotherJim wrote:
Your response to me:

"If you look at https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...nchs-data.html you can see what is happening.

The total deaths as shown by death certificates is actually below normal. And that red line are the "reported" Wuhan Virus deaths. As you see, they are supposedly shooting through the ceiling while total deaths are not changing.

How can this occur? Because the CDC awards hospitals that report covid-19 deaths a subsidy to pay for additional cleanup of the areas in which the patients could have infected. (I have heard that this is $37,000 each but cannot verify it)."

The data shown on the plot your reference is from the first week in April. Looking at the table for May 29

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

one sees that the total deaths for the first week of April were actually 69,000, 10,000 higher than the previous month. The site also clearly says that death data have a built-in delay and are updated as needed. So, the data you site are inaccurate because the were preliminary and are dated.

As for the $37,000 incentive to lie or exaggerate: death certificates are signed by individual doctors not hospitals. You are saying that the doctors have either entered into a massive conspiracy on behalf of hospitals, or that hospitals are coercing the thousands of doctors into lying. Pretty impossible.

If you look at https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

Why do you suppose that the upper boundaries for excess deaths for last year at this time would be 1,000 weekly deaths higher? Moreover, we know that essentially ALL of the excess deaths are from people 60 years and older and with serious preexisting conditions. How do you separate those who were expected to die of natural causes from those who die from natural causes and are Wuhan Virus positive?

Do you find it somehow worthy of mention that more people died It the April weeks after months of shut-downs and in the meantime, the prediction is for approximately 37,000 excess suicide deaths this year? And that they are occurring right now and are not publicized?

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/

This appears to show the payments being 13,000 + 35,000 if they are ventilated. You cannot put a patient on a ventilator save under direct medical supervision - a hospital. Most of those dying are put on a ventilator. Not purposely miscounting?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/115126...irus-lockdown/

https://reason.com/2020/05/11/does-q...r-a-denialist/

I saw several interviews in which nurses said that during the night shift that people had died and the doctors had written in the cause of death. And the next day these doctors were called in an "asked" by the hospital administrator to change the cause of death to covid-19.

I do not suspect that this was politically motivated but entirely financial since at this time MOST of the hospitals in this country are approaching bankruptcy because all elective surgery has stopped. A large percentage of these surgeries are cancer related and without cancer treatment a large number of people can be expected to die. This is a significant number since 500,000 people die each year in the US from Cancer.

It turns out that there are only a small percentage of people have postmortem examinations and so covid-19 would not be questioned and that illness has symptoms almost the same as vital pneumonia - the source of most of the deaths in people over 60.

I think you're attempting to connect the financial motivations of hospitals to the political motivations of the Democrat Party who feel that the worst condition this country is in the better their chances in the election.

The Masons are behind the whole COVID-19 epidemic. They created the virus to kill the Illuminati because they were planning to steal the Declaration of Independence to get the invisible treasure map on the back. The virus got out their secret laboratory under the Louvre and infected a group of Chinese tourists taking selfies in front of the Mona Lisa. Here is a pictu https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/...ostow-4720.jpg Those two went back to their pangolin ranch in Wuhan, and he rest is history. So many Italians died because the virus was synthesized from the tissue of Leonardo DaVinci, who is still alive having invented a time machine to escape the plague in 1484. If you only knew the truth.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 5/31/2020 3:21 PM, AnotherJim wrote:
Your response to me:

"If you look at https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...nchs-data.html you can see what is happening.

The total deaths as shown by death certificates is actually below normal. And that red line are the "reported" Wuhan Virus deaths. As you see, they are supposedly shooting through the ceiling while total deaths are not changing.

How can this occur? Because the CDC awards hospitals that report covid-19 deaths a subsidy to pay for additional cleanup of the areas in which the patients could have infected. (I have heard that this is $37,000 each but cannot verify it)."

The data shown on the plot your reference is from the first week in April. Looking at the table for May 29

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

one sees that the total deaths for the first week of April were actually 69,000, 10,000 higher than the previous month. The site also clearly says that death data have a built-in delay and are updated as needed. So, the data you site are inaccurate because the were preliminary and are dated.

As for the $37,000 incentive to lie or exaggerate: death certificates are signed by individual doctors not hospitals. You are saying that the doctors have either entered into a massive conspiracy on behalf of hospitals, or that hospitals are coercing the thousands of doctors into lying. Pretty impossible.


There's plenty of error and number fudging to go around but
Dr Malcolm Kendrick of NHS UK wrote exactly that last week.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 5:33:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 1:21:34 PM UTC-7, AnotherJim wrote:
Your response to me:

"If you look at https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...nchs-data.html you can see what is happening.

The total deaths as shown by death certificates is actually below normal. And that red line are the "reported" Wuhan Virus deaths. As you see, they are supposedly shooting through the ceiling while total deaths are not changing.

How can this occur? Because the CDC awards hospitals that report covid-19 deaths a subsidy to pay for additional cleanup of the areas in which the patients could have infected. (I have heard that this is $37,000 each but cannot verify it)."

The data shown on the plot your reference is from the first week in April. Looking at the table for May 29

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

one sees that the total deaths for the first week of April were actually 69,000, 10,000 higher than the previous month. The site also clearly says that death data have a built-in delay and are updated as needed. So, the data you site are inaccurate because the were preliminary and are dated.

As for the $37,000 incentive to lie or exaggerate: death certificates are signed by individual doctors not hospitals. You are saying that the doctors have either entered into a massive conspiracy on behalf of hospitals, or that hospitals are coercing the thousands of doctors into lying. Pretty impossible.

If you look at https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

Why do you suppose that the upper boundaries for excess deaths for last year at this time would be 1,000 weekly deaths higher? Moreover, we know that essentially ALL of the excess deaths are from people 60 years and older and with serious preexisting conditions. How do you separate those who were expected to die of natural causes from those who die from natural causes and are Wuhan Virus positive?

Do you find it somehow worthy of mention that more people died It the April weeks after months of shut-downs and in the meantime, the prediction is for approximately 37,000 excess suicide deaths this year? And that they are occurring right now and are not publicized?

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/

This appears to show the payments being 13,000 + 35,000 if they are ventilated. You cannot put a patient on a ventilator save under direct medical supervision - a hospital. Most of those dying are put on a ventilator. Not purposely miscounting?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/115126...irus-lockdown/

https://reason.com/2020/05/11/does-q...r-a-denialist/

I saw several interviews in which nurses said that during the night shift that people had died and the doctors had written in the cause of death. And the next day these doctors were called in an "asked" by the hospital administrator to change the cause of death to covid-19.

I do not suspect that this was politically motivated but entirely financial since at this time MOST of the hospitals in this country are approaching bankruptcy because all elective surgery has stopped. A large percentage of these surgeries are cancer related and without cancer treatment a large number of people can be expected to die. This is a significant number since 500,000 people die each year in the US from Cancer.

It turns out that there are only a small percentage of people have postmortem examinations and so covid-19 would not be questioned and that illness has symptoms almost the same as vital pneumonia - the source of most of the deaths in people over 60.

I think you're attempting to connect the financial motivations of hospitals to the political motivations of the Democrat Party who feel that the worst condition this country is in the better their chances in the election.

Anthony Fauci via Factcheck.org:

Director Anthony Fauci, who — while answering a reporter’s question about that theory — said “you will always have conspiracy theories when you have very challenging public health crises. They are nothing but distractions.�

Hospitals are not fraudulently miscoding COVID19 deaths to collect money:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/

From the CDC website you used as evidence that there was no increase in deaths in April ( https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm )

3/7/20 Covid Deaths: 32, Total Deaths: 57,850
4/4/20 Covid Deaths: 9,362; Total Deaths: 69,037

A plot of expected vs. actual deaths is included on the CDC website. Note that it includes all deaths from any cause:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

It's difficult to separate deaths from flu-like symptoms, pneumonia, and COVID19; the three combined jumped from 6% of total expected deaths to 26% of all deaths at the peak.

Jim

On 31/05/2020 23.40, jbeattie wrote:

snip

The Masons are behind the whole COVID-19 epidemic. They created the
virus to kill the Illuminati because they were planning to steal the
Declaration of Independence to get the invisible treasure map on the
back. The virus got out their secret laboratory under the Louvre and
infected a group of Chinese tourists taking selfies in front of the
Mona Lisa. Here is a pictu

https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/...ostow-4720.jpg

Those two went back to their pangolin ranch in Wuhan, and he rest is
history. So many Italians died because the virus was synthesized
from the tissue of Leonardo DaVinci, who is still alive having
invented a time machine to escape the plague in 1484. If you only
knew the truth.

applause

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 6:49:37 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 1:46:44 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:51:59 PM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2020 08:36:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Consider this - 40% of the economy of the "shelter in place" states has disappeared and will take years to recover. This drives the suicide rates up. Paul Ehrlich, a moronic and virtually criminally insane, tenured professor at Stanford in the 1980's was promoting putting sterility agents into reservoirs and poison into food supplies sent to third world countries in order to control what he termed "The Population Bomb". Isn't this virtually the same thing?

Of course it is, you fool. It is the Yellow Buffoon in the White House
trying to eliminate all the Democrats so he can be re-elected.
(and it's taken you all these months to realize it)
--
cheers,

John B.

Are you color-blind as well as a shortass, Slow Johnny? There's nothing yellow about Mr Trump. He is exactly the opposite of a coward.

It doesn't surprise me that some bum living in Thailand has opinions about a President for which he gets his information from the Lame Stream Media. I was somewhat dumbfounded about all of the children posters on a comment section talking about Trump shutting down freedom of the press when he did exactly the opposite with Twitter. His executive order made them able to be sued for censoring information as they so commonly do. No threats, no misinformation and often references for all of it and Twitter will censor it because it doesn't meet their political standards.

There's nowhere else in the world that the press can libel he living and traduce the dead with such impunity as in America. The press, and the social media, *should* be held responsible for what is in their pages, and in the case of the social media in oligopoly positions, for what they suppress as well.

Andre Jute
WTF does Jack Dorsey think he is, censoring the duly elected President of the United States?

PS: Under Mr Trump's long-everdue initiative, Dorsey would also be able to sue Wikipedia for this atrocity offered to me by Google as the first search result:
"Jack Patrick Dorsey (born November 19, 1976) is an American communist, politically correct computer programmer and Internet entrepreneur who is the co-founder and CEO of Twitter..."

PPS: One of my favorite movies is "Absent Malice" with Paul Newman, named for the legal fig leaf under which the American media enjoy their extraordinary protections; Paul Newman plays the son of a gangster whose life is endangered to trap his uncle, who instead entraps the ruthless investigators and US Attorney.

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 6:22:22 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2020 2:46 AM, Tosspot wrote:

The aquarium cleaner isn't doing him any favours. Damn that
man looks unwell.

oh dear lord, that pool cleaner poisoning was a murder and
she had a prior attempt on him. It's utterly unrelated.

I find it interesting what the Donkeys take from their lockstep media. Professionally, I know you can't fight a street myth in the ghetto of small minds. The professional answer is to get in first, and create the street corner myth to suit your own narrative, and then to promote it like iced lemonade in the global warming. But the Donkeys' professional scribbler class is so much better at it than conservatives, who're hampered by an attachment to truth and free speech even for those who would destroy them.

Andre Jute
The Donkey Party doesn't need any more enemies: its leaders and activists and voters are doing just fine destroying it.

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 7:45:06 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 12:45:45 AM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:

On related note, it's been speculated in the UK that COVID-19 is
actually increasing the lifespan of under 30 males. They don't tend to
die of COVID-19, and they are less likely to die in RTAs these days :-)

It's also been speculated that it will increase the average lifespan for the next 30 years, And it you understood statistics you'd realize that is more probable.

Economists know for an almost-fact (or perhaps by now a generally accepted fact or even proven) that the Black Death enriched the survivors. Simple, there weren't enough bodies to fill the jobs, so the price of labour rose, and a rising tide lifted all the boats, or more mundanely, the GDP increased even without the effects of the silver (and in comparison to silver a little gold) flowing in from the Americas which eventually caused a long, slow inflation of about 2% per century. (Today we take 2% unemployment and 2% inflation as a mostly unspoken baseline below which the economy is either overheating or stagnating. Economics just isn't precise enough to micromanage that closely.)

Andre Jute
Extracting a course of action from a morass of uncertainty is what the better minds do. They should be shielded from political interference.

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 11:40:44 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:

The Masons are behind the whole COVID-19 epidemic. They created the virus to kill the Illuminati because they were planning to steal the Declaration of Independence to get the invisible treasure map on the back. The virus got out their secret laboratory under the Louvre and infected a group of Chinese tourists taking selfies in front of the Mona Lisa. Here is a pictu https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/...ostow-4720.jpg Those two went back to their pangolin ranch in Wuhan, and he rest is history. So many Italians died because the virus was synthesized from the tissue of Leonardo DaVinci, who is still alive having invented a time machine to escape the plague in 1484. If you only knew the truth.

-- Jay Beattie.

When they make the movie, the Jay Beattie character will be played by Nicholas Cage. -- AJ

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 6:08:10 PM UTC-7, AnotherJim wrote:
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 5:33:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 1:21:34 PM UTC-7, AnotherJim wrote:
Your response to me:

"If you look at https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...nchs-data.html you can see what is happening.

The total deaths as shown by death certificates is actually below normal. And that red line are the "reported" Wuhan Virus deaths. As you see, they are supposedly shooting through the ceiling while total deaths are not changing.

How can this occur? Because the CDC awards hospitals that report covid-19 deaths a subsidy to pay for additional cleanup of the areas in which the patients could have infected. (I have heard that this is $37,000 each but cannot verify it)."

The data shown on the plot your reference is from the first week in April. Looking at the table for May 29

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

one sees that the total deaths for the first week of April were actually 69,000, 10,000 higher than the previous month. The site also clearly says that death data have a built-in delay and are updated as needed. So, the data you site are inaccurate because the were preliminary and are dated.

As for the $37,000 incentive to lie or exaggerate: death certificates are signed by individual doctors not hospitals. You are saying that the doctors have either entered into a massive conspiracy on behalf of hospitals, or that hospitals are coercing the thousands of doctors into lying. Pretty impossible.

If you look at https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ss_deaths..htm

Why do you suppose that the upper boundaries for excess deaths for last year at this time would be 1,000 weekly deaths higher? Moreover, we know that essentially ALL of the excess deaths are from people 60 years and older and with serious preexisting conditions. How do you separate those who were expected to die of natural causes from those who die from natural causes and are Wuhan Virus positive?

Do you find it somehow worthy of mention that more people died It the April weeks after months of shut-downs and in the meantime, the prediction is for approximately 37,000 excess suicide deaths this year? And that they are occurring right now and are not publicized?

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/

This appears to show the payments being 13,000 + 35,000 if they are ventilated. You cannot put a patient on a ventilator save under direct medical supervision - a hospital. Most of those dying are put on a ventilator. Not purposely miscounting?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/115126...irus-lockdown/

https://reason.com/2020/05/11/does-q...r-a-denialist/

I saw several interviews in which nurses said that during the night shift that people had died and the doctors had written in the cause of death. And the next day these doctors were called in an "asked" by the hospital administrator to change the cause of death to covid-19.

I do not suspect that this was politically motivated but entirely financial since at this time MOST of the hospitals in this country are approaching bankruptcy because all elective surgery has stopped. A large percentage of these surgeries are cancer related and without cancer treatment a large number of people can be expected to die. This is a significant number since 500,000 people die each year in the US from Cancer.

It turns out that there are only a small percentage of people have postmortem examinations and so covid-19 would not be questioned and that illness has symptoms almost the same as vital pneumonia - the source of most of the deaths in people over 60.

I think you're attempting to connect the financial motivations of hospitals to the political motivations of the Democrat Party who feel that the worst condition this country is in the better their chances in the election.

Anthony Fauci via Factcheck.org:

Director Anthony Fauci, who — while answering a reporter’s question about that theory — said “you will always have conspiracy theories when you have very challenging public health crises. They are nothing but distractions.�

Hospitals are not fraudulently miscoding COVID19 deaths to collect money:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/

From the CDC website you used as evidence that there was no increase in deaths in April ( https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm )

3/7/20 Covid Deaths: 32, Total Deaths: 57,850
4/4/20 Covid Deaths: 9,362; Total Deaths: 69,037

A plot of expected vs. actual deaths is included on the CDC website. Note that it includes all deaths from any cause:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

It's difficult to separate deaths from flu-like symptoms, pneumonia, and COVID19; the three combined jumped from 6% of total expected deaths to 26% of all deaths at the peak.

Jim

I see that they are updating those figures daily. The numbers shown yesterday are not those I observe today. The top expected numbers yesterday for this time last year was 71,000+ whereas today it shows 58,000+ as the expected number. That is a rather large change don't you think?

Also, the numbers of "excess deaths" has changed from the entire listing to just those above the "expected numbers" line. You would think that the CDC would have a better web developer that would get it correct the first time..

Let us assume that these were actually covid-19 deaths. But we absolutely know of the age and health group that they occurred to. What do you say if the death rates dropped far below "expected" in the near future because the group in danger were stressed beyond their ability to cope and died.

I have stated in the past that this disease is self limiting because those that die of it are those with very serious conditions to begin with and hence are a limited audience. If you kill those people faster you must of needs away the development of another group of people with those illnesses.

What is absolutely important to remember, corona viruses have been around forever. This means that most people have immune systems that respond to corona virus without specific antibodies. 3/4ths of the population are that way and simply will not catch it unless they have extremely heavy exposure. Even then most would be symptomless. i.e. The NBL was tested and less than 1% had covid-19 antibodies. Since the average numbers of exposures expected would be 15% why would that be?

https://fee.org/articles/physicians-...es-here-s-why/

Of course people like Jay will call it a conspiracy theory because Jay doesn't have to work around these people. His medical expertise runs to barely being able to put a bandaid on a skinned knee. Even then he cries for his Mommy.

So I guess you and I will have to disagree as to the numbers of claimed deaths.

I must again point you to: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

That growth curve on the bottom right of the screen tells very much the entire story. That shows the number of people dying and not a growth curve of a infectious disease.

On Monday, June 1, 2020 at 7:57:48 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 6:08:10 PM UTC-7, AnotherJim wrote:
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 5:33:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 1:21:34 PM UTC-7, AnotherJim wrote:
Your response to me:

"If you look at https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...nchs-data.html you can see what is happening.

The total deaths as shown by death certificates is actually below normal. And that red line are the "reported" Wuhan Virus deaths. As you see, they are supposedly shooting through the ceiling while total deaths are not changing.

How can this occur? Because the CDC awards hospitals that report covid-19 deaths a subsidy to pay for additional cleanup of the areas in which the patients could have infected. (I have heard that this is $37,000 each but cannot verify it)."

The data shown on the plot your reference is from the first week in April. Looking at the table for May 29

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

one sees that the total deaths for the first week of April were actually 69,000, 10,000 higher than the previous month. The site also clearly says that death data have a built-in delay and are updated as needed. So, the data you site are inaccurate because the were preliminary and are dated.

As for the $37,000 incentive to lie or exaggerate: death certificates are signed by individual doctors not hospitals. You are saying that the doctors have either entered into a massive conspiracy on behalf of hospitals, or that hospitals are coercing the thousands of doctors into lying. Pretty impossible.

If you look at https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

Why do you suppose that the upper boundaries for excess deaths for last year at this time would be 1,000 weekly deaths higher? Moreover, we know that essentially ALL of the excess deaths are from people 60 years and older and with serious preexisting conditions. How do you separate those who were expected to die of natural causes from those who die from natural causes and are Wuhan Virus positive?

Do you find it somehow worthy of mention that more people died It the April weeks after months of shut-downs and in the meantime, the prediction is for approximately 37,000 excess suicide deaths this year? And that they are occurring right now and are not publicized?

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/

This appears to show the payments being 13,000 + 35,000 if they are ventilated. You cannot put a patient on a ventilator save under direct medical supervision - a hospital. Most of those dying are put on a ventilator. Not purposely miscounting?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/115126...irus-lockdown/

https://reason.com/2020/05/11/does-q...r-a-denialist/

I saw several interviews in which nurses said that during the night shift that people had died and the doctors had written in the cause of death.. And the next day these doctors were called in an "asked" by the hospital administrator to change the cause of death to covid-19.

I do not suspect that this was politically motivated but entirely financial since at this time MOST of the hospitals in this country are approaching bankruptcy because all elective surgery has stopped. A large percentage of these surgeries are cancer related and without cancer treatment a large number of people can be expected to die. This is a significant number since 500,000 people die each year in the US from Cancer.

It turns out that there are only a small percentage of people have postmortem examinations and so covid-19 would not be questioned and that illness has symptoms almost the same as vital pneumonia - the source of most of the deaths in people over 60.

I think you're attempting to connect the financial motivations of hospitals to the political motivations of the Democrat Party who feel that the worst condition this country is in the better their chances in the election.