Disk brakes might be useful

On 06-02-19 16:38, Joerg wrote:
I have used up some rims over my riding years. Back as a student when I
did 6000 miles per year I "solved" the problem of having to spoke in by
buying another used beater bike every year. After I bought my first
custom road bike I had it done at the LBS because I am not that good in
trueing a wheel.

Waiting too long can be risky and not all rims have good indicators when
they are about to go. My sister had a violent rim blow-out on a mountain
bike. Luckily it was the rear wheel. Of course, according to Sir, our
family must be a bunch of carnivores and rim eaters.

Not long ago I replaced the front rim on my everyday bike. This was a
DT-Swiss rim, which had as a wear indicator some tiny holes a mm or so
deep in the side. The rim should be O.K. as long as you can see the
holes. They were still visible, but there was a slight grab at one spot
while braking, and there the rim joint had become visible. I decided to
replace the rim to be completely safe, and had certainly got my money's
worth since it was about 9 years old. Out of curiosity I showed the rim
to the LBS expert. He broke the rim into pieces, with a for me
surprising result: Part of the rim wall was only about 0.75 or 0.8 mm
thick, so well into the danger zone. Glad that I was cautious, even
though transferring the spokes to a new rim and getting everything
adjusted took more than 4 hours.

Ned

On 2/5/2019 11:17 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 19:49:47 -0500, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 2:09:28 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

Snipped
What causes you to eventually discard rims? Do they just last forever?
Truly we must live in different worlds.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with rims
wearing out.

Not sure what you mean by "drastic". Rims are a wear item.

--

If I get rid of a rim it's usually because it's been bent.

What I mean by "drastic" is people like Joerg who have to replace a
rim because it was worn through by rim brakes withing 1000
miles. Based on MY experience riding on dirt roads, touring with 40
pounds of gear on logging roads for 2 weeks at a time, and riding in
the rain and riding through the winter 1000 miles seems quite a low
number of miles for a pair of rims. I wonder if Joerg rides the
brakes?

I agree that 1000 miles seems a very short life for a rim. But I didn't
say that, and Joerg didn't bring it up, why did you?

Actually Joerg said
"Well, the rims on my 1st MTB were nearly shot after the first 1000mi
of"

Joerg is very, very unusual in many ways.

I was on a mountain bike ride where one guy's rim did fail from brake
pad wear. I didn't know him personally, so I can't say what the bike's
history was, and I've never heard of another such example from my many
cycling friends.

But it seems to me this depends not on the bike mileage, but on the
mileage during which the brakes were actually applied. On a road bike, I
doubt anyone spends a large percentage of their time on the brakes.
Well, excepting something like this:
http://adventureinhawaii.com/maui/downhill-bike-tour/

The force with which the brakes are applied also matters. I suppose if
someone were doing panic stops all the time, their rims wouldn't last long.

And I wonder how much the local soil composition matters. Joerg talks
about his soil composition being much more abrasive than that in other
locations. Perhaps he's right.

But then, he also talks about his local motorists being much more
aggressive than elsewhere, his trails being rougher than others, his
mountain lions being hungrier, etc. etc.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/6/2019 1:19 AM, Tosspot wrote:
I did know some tree huggers that used bits of cow skin to
replace the synthetic rubber in a bit to save the planet planet, but I
figured it's going to hell in a hand basket anyway so proper rubber all
round for me.

ISTR hearing about leather brake pads for use on steel rims. But then
there's the risk of PETA commandos stealing your brake shoes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/6/2019 11:25 AM, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 06-02-19 16:38, Joerg wrote:
I have used up some rims over my riding years. Back as a
student when I did 6000 miles per year I "solved" the
problem of having to spoke in by buying another used
beater bike every year. After I bought my first custom
road bike I had it done at the LBS because I am not that
good in trueing a wheel.

Waiting too long can be risky and not all rims have good
indicators when they are about to go. My sister had a
violent rim blow-out on a mountain bike. Luckily it was
the rear wheel. Of course, according to Sir, our family
must be a bunch of carnivores and rim eaters.

Not long ago I replaced the front rim on my everyday bike.
This was a DT-Swiss rim, which had as a wear indicator some
tiny holes a mm or so deep in the side. The rim should be
O.K. as long as you can see the holes. They were still
visible, but there was a slight grab at one spot while
braking, and there the rim joint had become visible. I
decided to replace the rim to be completely safe, and had
certainly got my money's worth since it was about 9 years
old. Out of curiosity I showed the rim to the LBS expert. He
broke the rim into pieces, with a for me surprising result:
Part of the rim wall was only about 0.75 or 0.8 mm thick, so
well into the danger zone. Glad that I was cautious, even
though transferring the spokes to a new rim and getting
everything adjusted took more than 4 hours.

Ned

"transferring the spokes to a new rim and getting
everything adjusted took more than 4 hours."

including occasional meditation sessions and painting the room.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 5:32:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 7:49:50 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 2:09:28 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

Snipped
What causes you to eventually discard rims? Do they just last forever?
Truly we must live in different worlds.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with rims
wearing out.

Not sure what you mean by "drastic". Rims are a wear item.

--

If I get rid of a rim it's usually because it's been bent.

What I mean by "drastic" is people like Joerg who have to replace a
rim because it was worn through by rim brakes withing 1000
miles. Based on MY experience riding on dirt roads, touring with 40
pounds of gear on logging roads for 2 weeks at a time, and riding in
the rain and riding through the winter 1000 miles seems quite a low
number of miles for a pair of rims. I wonder if Joerg rides the
brakes?

I agree that 1000 miles seems a very short life for a rim. But I didn't
say that, and Joerg didn't bring it up, why did you?

--

I brought up 1000 miles = worn out rims? No, Joerg brought it up when he stated in a post:

"Joerg
1:06 PM (7 hours ago)
On 2019-02-05 09:51, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
Snipped

"Well, the rims on my 1st MTB were nearly shot after the first 1000mi of
foul weather riding. Most of the time I reached on on soggy winter trail
rides there was this goose bump eliciting sandpaper noise."

Needless to say, the next MTB had disc brakes and none of this is
happening now. Why should people put up with inferior components if
there are better ones that even reduce cost per mile over the years?

If disc brakes are your thing that's fine, but like so many things disc brakes are NOT needed by everyone who does heavy use riding in the rain, on dirt roads or even off roads.

Cheers

At 1,000 miles the wear dots on my Fulcrums or Campys were gone. I still ride them but watch them carefully.

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 2/6/2019 1:19 AM, Tosspot wrote:
I did know some tree huggers that used bits of cow skin to replace
the synthetic rubber in a bit to save the planet planet, but I
figured it's going to hell in a hand basket anyway so proper rubber
all round for me.

ISTR hearing about leather brake pads for use on steel rims. But then
there's the risk of PETA commandos stealing your brake shoes.

No higher than the risk of them stealing your non-brake shoes.


--

On 2/6/19 7:44 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 07:19:38 +0100, Tosspot
wrote:

On 2/6/19 1:59 AM, Mark J. wrote:
On 2/5/2019 3:27 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

snip

That is because you use those cheap and dirty aluminum rims. Switch to
proper chrome plated steel rims and they will last practically for
ever :-)

That's 'cause after a short while, the rider gives up entirely on
braking in the wet.Â*

There you go, exaggerating again. 'Round my way any parked car,
lamppost or tree was a perfectly good brake substitute in inclement
weather. I did know some tree huggers that used bits of cow skin to
replace the synthetic rubber in a bit to save the planet planet, but I
figured it's going to hell in a hand basket anyway so proper rubber all
round for me.

But aren't bicycle tires made of butyl rubber? A synthetic made from
crude oil?

You stand accused of bringing the voice of reason into this thread. How
do you plead?

On 2/6/19 3:27 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

snip

I can offer a cautionary tale, but not a shining example, having
completely worn out a set of rims:

I had noticed that the brake track was ground into the rims, at
least a mm deep, with well-defined shoulders. Being lazy and
unreasonably optimistic, I continued to use them until one day
getting a flat with a large tear in the tire sidewall.

After walking home I found that the rim shape was a bit distorted,
and that the wall was thin enough that I could poke a screwdriver
through without trying too hard. That's too thin.

Not accumulating the mileages frequently described here, I imagined
that this kind of thing was commonplace. Perhaps I brake too much.

You see, that is your entire problem. If you weren't dragging the
brakes you'd be a cycling *GOD* ith an average in excess of 30 mph over
the mountain sections. At the very least!

On 2/6/19 4:41 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/5/2019 9:34 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/5/2019 8:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:


[raised eyebrow] 1000 miles? every year? yikes!

I also consider rims a consumable, but due to heart-shape
format or too many eyelets pulled through. I've never worn
out a rim's brake surface.

I'm glad you said that. I was feeling inadequate because I
don't think I've ever worn out a rim's brake surface.

I've replaced rims mostly when potholes have damaged them so
badly that I can't jack the dents back out (and I've jacked
out several bad dents). Also when switching from 27" to 700c.

Is there a rule of thumb for how thin I can let a braking
surface get? I'm talking about ancient rims that have no
indicator groove.


A straightedge will give a good idea of the wear. Brake surface starts
out flat, ends up concave:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/wornrim.jpg

Lol! I haven't seen that because it's clearly fake news and doesn't
happen. My mate had it, but it was clearly Mexicans armed with
wet'n'dry as we indulged in a light snack after the Siera Nevada climb.


That is extreme, usually you see the precursor well in advance.

On 2/6/19 6:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

snip

And I wonder how much the local soil composition matters. Joerg talks
about his soil composition being much more abrasive than that in
other locations. Perhaps he's right.

Absolutely. I live in a very sandy environment, and in the winter it
eats rims and transmission. If you live on the mud flats, I guess
you'll be ok.