Chain Line

On 2017-06-27 04:38, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:00:52 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
wrote:

Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-23 17:21, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2017 5:32 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 17:31, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 06:47, wrote:

[...]

I bought that Trek Hi-Fi from that guy over in the Palo Alto hills
and I'll bet it didn't have 10 miles on it. Now if you're a full
suspension guy that was really a deal. I just couldn't go with the
weight.


It it was 21" or 23" frame I'd have bought that as well. Should be a
good sturdy trail bike, just what I need. My Fuji Outland 29er weighs
around 40lbs with all the mods I put on (IIRC it was around 30lbs when
new). I bought it mainly because of the tough frame but the
downside of
that is that you can't mount a bottle holder on the frame.


That's a shame, lack of bottle mount, that is.

o the best of my knowledge i.e. Looking in bike shops/sites most FS
frames
you can now, though some would only fit a smallish bottle.


The 2012 model Fuji Outland 29er still had a bottle mount but excessive
up stand-over height. If for some reason a rider had to jump off the
saddle forward he might sing soprano for a while :-)

http://archive.fujibikes.com/2012/Fuji/outland-29-10

On the 2013 model which I have they straightened out the top tube for a
normal stand-over height but the bottle mount had to sacrificed for lack
of space. The bike shop owner and I were quite puzzled by that. When
picking up my new MTB I wanted to buy a sturdy bottle holder from him,
he grabbed one and we stood there looking at the bike.

http://archive.fujibikes.com/2013/Fuji/outland-29-15-d

He had a handle-bar mounted one. So I am one of the few riders out here
with a "cup holder" on my MTB. I find that quite useful and have a
whopping 28oz bottle in it. In this area you can't have too much water
on the bike.


I have a same year but Giant it has enough space for a slightly smaller
bottle, but I tend not to drink much on the bike, I tend to organise
routes
past cafes if I can!


I always look for pubs on the route, preferably brewpubs. Yesterday on
the way back I stopped he

http://edhbrewing.com/

I tend to go for cafes, which tend to be open earlier and generally in the
uk at least easier to stop at though does depend on the area.


Easier to stop at? Do they frown upon bicycle parked in front of a pub
over there? One of my favorite places about 3-4mi after the end of a
long MTB ride has a large granite outdoor bar. I can park the MTB right
next to me, don't even have to lock it. When Paco sees me coming he
already starts pouring a ShockTop.


Even in hotter areas I don't seem to need that much water, ridden up MT
Teide twice now, which is 30miles sea to top, at 30c so quite a few hours
unless your very fit!


Be careful. Even if we aren't thirsty our bodies need to replenish a lot
of water tat got sweated out. In the army they even have "pee charts" in
some bathroom in hot weather locations. If the pee is too dark in color
then damage is being done. If you don't have to go at all durong the
whole ride that could be of even more concern.

On the 40mi tour yesterday I drank about one gallon. Plus beer.

That is quite a lot of water, it is possible to essentially dilute one self
to the point of harm.


That is almost impossible on a long hot summer ride unless you tow a
tanker trailer.



Probably the beer, which acts as a diuretic, is "draining the system"
and keeping his hydration levels in the normal range :-)


No, that gets imbibed some time during the last 10mi on the home
stretch. Afterwards I am not all that thirsty.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

John B. writes:

Probably the beer, which acts as a diuretic, is
"draining the system" and keeping his hydration
levels in the normal range :-)

I read a story the other day about a twelve-year-old
girl who had been to a party and they had poured her
a full glass of vodka. Then everyone made a ring
around her chanting "drink drink drink". The next
thing she knew was when her parents picked her up at
the hospital. Two years later the story appeared in
the news. Obviously a very unpleasant experience but
life goes on etc. etc. Last thing the journalist asked
was if she had been drinking anything since that day?
She replied that now her relationship to alcohol is
a bit more mature...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 2017-06-26 17:39, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 7:21:03 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 11:54:46 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 20:38:04 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/14/2017 5:28 PM, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 06:31, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-13 19:09, John B. wrote:

In a recent discussion I suggested changing from the old
square
tapered BB to a modern Shimano outboard bearing bracket.
The argument
was that this would destroy the perfect chain line of the
original
three piece BB.

Now, I have changed back and forth between the original
square tapered
axle to the outboard bearing BB and to my recollection
the chain line
didn't seem to change noticeably.

Over the weekend we took a trip "up country" to visit
some of my
wife's relatives and as we used my wife's car she drove.
It is about
250 Km, one way, so I had a lot of time to think abut
things and one
of the things I thought about was how could I change
bottom brackets
with no appreciable difference in chain line.

This morning I turned one of my bikes bottom up and did
some measuring
and it turns out that with the old fashioned three piece
BB there is
slightly over 10mm clearance between the inner edge of
the crank arm
and the outer edge of the BB. The outboard bearing
"flanges" measured
12mm in thickness and the old sty;e BB flange is `1mm..

Thus the changing from the old style to the more modern
BB results in
very little, if any, difference in chain line. Certainly
less then the
difference between two cogs on the cassette.

Granted that bicycles are all different but the above
does explain why
I, after switching from one type to the other, and back
again, have
seen no noticeable difference in chain line.


The discussion you were referring to was about Shimano 600
gear which is
what I have on my road bike. The clearance from the inner
edge of the
drive side crank to the outer surface of the BB is 3mm.
Now assume your
12mm measurement minus the 1mm that the regular cartridge
BB has. That's
already 11mm of chain line offset. A lot. You could reduce
the clearance
to 2mm but that much wiggle room you really need for
square taper and
that would still leave you with a chain line 10mm off from
where it was.


On my previous frame, I migrated from Campagnolo square
tapered BB & cranks to Campagnolo outboard bearing BB assy,
and the chain line didn't shift 10mm.

Why do you think you are special?


Chainline errors are entirely from not using the
manufacturer's specified parts.

Only a complete idiot would pull a functional spark plug
from a V8 and drop it into a 4-cyl Asian econobox. Yet
people mix arms and spindles which are ridiculously
incompatible every day and then ride over here to complain
that the crank's no good. Oy!

p.s. Almost all derailleur systems will work well with
+1mm/-1mm chainline error. Few can accept 10mm either way,
that is a very large distance.

I think I would have to be a bit picky here. A Big chain ring to a
small cassette cog is going to be about 21 mm out of line, assuming
that the chain line was initially aligned, big ring to 5th cog of a 9
speed cassette, and it still shifts.

But, of course, if the chain line was initially 10 mm out of alignment
then certainly shifting would be a bit "iffy" at least in one
direction :-)

On a triple the middle ring is aligned with the 5th cog.

Not on a Fuji
http://www.classicfuji.com/1981_Thumbs.htm


But it is on some newer Fujis like mine :-)

http://archive.fujibikes.com/2013/Fuji/outland-29-15-d

Ok, between 5th and 6th cog.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-27 04:38, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:00:52 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
wrote:

Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-23 17:21, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2017 5:32 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 17:31, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 06:47, wrote:

[...]

I bought that Trek Hi-Fi from that guy over in the Palo Alto hills
and I'll bet it didn't have 10 miles on it. Now if you're a full
suspension guy that was really a deal. I just couldn't go with the
weight.


It it was 21" or 23" frame I'd have bought that as well. Should be a
good sturdy trail bike, just what I need. My Fuji Outland 29er weighs
around 40lbs with all the mods I put on (IIRC it was around 30lbs when
new). I bought it mainly because of the tough frame but the
downside of
that is that you can't mount a bottle holder on the frame.


That's a shame, lack of bottle mount, that is.

o the best of my knowledge i.e. Looking in bike shops/sites most FS
frames
you can now, though some would only fit a smallish bottle.


The 2012 model Fuji Outland 29er still had a bottle mount but excessive
up stand-over height. If for some reason a rider had to jump off the
saddle forward he might sing soprano for a while :-)

http://archive.fujibikes.com/2012/Fuji/outland-29-10

On the 2013 model which I have they straightened out the top tube for a
normal stand-over height but the bottle mount had to sacrificed for lack
of space. The bike shop owner and I were quite puzzled by that. When
picking up my new MTB I wanted to buy a sturdy bottle holder from him,
he grabbed one and we stood there looking at the bike.

http://archive.fujibikes.com/2013/Fuji/outland-29-15-d

He had a handle-bar mounted one. So I am one of the few riders out here
with a "cup holder" on my MTB. I find that quite useful and have a
whopping 28oz bottle in it. In this area you can't have too much water
on the bike.


I have a same year but Giant it has enough space for a slightly smaller
bottle, but I tend not to drink much on the bike, I tend to organise
routes
past cafes if I can!


I always look for pubs on the route, preferably brewpubs. Yesterday on
the way back I stopped he

http://edhbrewing.com/

I tend to go for cafes, which tend to be open earlier and generally in the
uk at least easier to stop at though does depend on the area.


Easier to stop at? Do they frown upon bicycle parked in front of a pub
over there? One of my favorite places about 3-4mi after the end of a
long MTB ride has a large granite outdoor bar. I can park the MTB right
next to me, don't even have to lock it. When Paco sees me coming he
already starts pouring a ShockTop.

Can't see any frowning going on, but cafes generally are in better
locations for stopping, there are cafes that have have been set up for
cyclists and ones that are cafe/bike shop in one, and pubs quite often have
a back garden so keeping the bike secure by trudging the bike though is
frankly just not worth the effort. A lot of these cafes are licensed so one
could get booze if you wanted.

Even in hotter areas I don't seem to need that much water, ridden up MT
Teide twice now, which is 30miles sea to top, at 30c so quite a few hours
unless your very fit!


Be careful. Even if we aren't thirsty our bodies need to replenish a lot
of water tat got sweated out. In the army they even have "pee charts" in
some bathroom in hot weather locations. If the pee is too dark in color
then damage is being done. If you don't have to go at all durong the
whole ride that could be of even more concern.

On the 40mi tour yesterday I drank about one gallon. Plus beer.

That is quite a lot of water, it is possible to essentially dilute one self
to the point of harm.


That is almost impossible on a long hot summer ride unless you tow a
tanker trailer.



Probably the beer, which acts as a diuretic, is "draining the system"
and keeping his hydration levels in the normal range :-)


No, that gets imbibed some time during the last 10mi on the home
stretch. Afterwards I am not all that thirsty.

[...]


Roger Merriman

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:12:49 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. writes:

Probably the beer, which acts as a diuretic, is
"draining the system" and keeping his hydration
levels in the normal range :-)

I read a story the other day about a twelve-year-old
girl who had been to a party and they had poured her
a full glass of vodka. Then everyone made a ring
around her chanting "drink drink drink". The next
thing she knew was when her parents picked her up at
the hospital. Two years later the story appeared in
the news. Obviously a very unpleasant experience but
life goes on etc. etc. Last thing the journalist asked
was if she had been drinking anything since that day?
She replied that now her relationship to alcohol is
a bit more mature...

Technically death by alcohol can result with a BAC as low as 0.30,
assuming ethyl alcohol and the danger increases with increase in BAC.
This is also effected by body weight and composition, health level,
etc.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 6:37:48 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:12:49 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. writes:

Probably the beer, which acts as a diuretic, is
"draining the system" and keeping his hydration
levels in the normal range :-)

I read a story the other day about a twelve-year-old
girl who had been to a party and they had poured her
a full glass of vodka. Then everyone made a ring
around her chanting "drink drink drink". The next
thing she knew was when her parents picked her up at
the hospital. Two years later the story appeared in
the news. Obviously a very unpleasant experience but
life goes on etc. etc. Last thing the journalist asked
was if she had been drinking anything since that day?
She replied that now her relationship to alcohol is
a bit more mature...

Technically death by alcohol can result with a BAC as low as 0.30,
assuming ethyl alcohol and the danger increases with increase in BAC.
This is also effected by body weight and composition, health level,
etc.

"As low as"??? 0.3 is so falling down drunk that even an alcoholic has a hard time getting that high.

On 2017-06-28 08:38, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 6:37:48 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:12:49 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. writes:

Probably the beer, which acts as a diuretic, is
"draining the system" and keeping his hydration
levels in the normal range :-)

I read a story the other day about a twelve-year-old
girl who had been to a party and they had poured her
a full glass of vodka. Then everyone made a ring
around her chanting "drink drink drink". The next
thing she knew was when her parents picked her up at
the hospital. Two years later the story appeared in
the news. Obviously a very unpleasant experience but
life goes on etc. etc. Last thing the journalist asked
was if she had been drinking anything since that day?
She replied that now her relationship to alcohol is
a bit more mature...

Technically death by alcohol can result with a BAC as low as 0.30,
assuming ethyl alcohol and the danger increases with increase in BAC.
This is also effected by body weight and composition, health level,
etc.

"As low as"??? 0.3 is so falling down drunk that even an alcoholic has a hard time getting that high.


When I was young a police patrol found a guy on a moped one early
morning. He had gone straight where there was a 90 degree bend in the
road, proceeded into a plowed field whereupon the wheels of his moped
sank into the mud. It stopped and he sat there upright but chin on his
chest and snoring. Smelled like a distillery. He topped out well over
0.3 and who knows what it had been if they'd caught him right after it
happened.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 6/28/2017 10:38 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 6:37:48 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:12:49 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. writes:

Probably the beer, which acts as a diuretic, is
"draining the system" and keeping his hydration
levels in the normal range :-)

I read a story the other day about a twelve-year-old
girl who had been to a party and they had poured her
a full glass of vodka. Then everyone made a ring
around her chanting "drink drink drink". The next
thing she knew was when her parents picked her up at
the hospital. Two years later the story appeared in
the news. Obviously a very unpleasant experience but
life goes on etc. etc. Last thing the journalist asked
was if she had been drinking anything since that day?
She replied that now her relationship to alcohol is
a bit more mature...

Technically death by alcohol can result with a BAC as low as 0.30,
assuming ethyl alcohol and the danger increases with increase in BAC.
This is also effected by body weight and composition, health level,
etc.

"As low as"??? 0.3 is so falling down drunk that even an alcoholic has a hard time getting that high.


Odd though it may seem, this record:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...two-beers.html

was not in Wisconsin (!) although WI scores he

https://affotd.com/2012/04/16/eight-...s-of-all-time/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 9:59:24 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/28/2017 10:38 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 6:37:48 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:12:49 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. writes:

Probably the beer, which acts as a diuretic, is
"draining the system" and keeping his hydration
levels in the normal range :-)

I read a story the other day about a twelve-year-old
girl who had been to a party and they had poured her
a full glass of vodka. Then everyone made a ring
around her chanting "drink drink drink". The next
thing she knew was when her parents picked her up at
the hospital. Two years later the story appeared in
the news. Obviously a very unpleasant experience but
life goes on etc. etc. Last thing the journalist asked
was if she had been drinking anything since that day?
She replied that now her relationship to alcohol is
a bit more mature...

Technically death by alcohol can result with a BAC as low as 0.30,
assuming ethyl alcohol and the danger increases with increase in BAC.
This is also effected by body weight and composition, health level,
etc.

"As low as"??? 0.3 is so falling down drunk that even an alcoholic has a hard time getting that high.


Odd though it may seem, this record:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...two-beers.html

was not in Wisconsin (!) although WI scores he

https://affotd.com/2012/04/16/eight-...s-of-all-time/

If you believe those numbers you're too drunk to read.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 08:38:47 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 6:37:48 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:12:49 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. writes:

Probably the beer, which acts as a diuretic, is
"draining the system" and keeping his hydration
levels in the normal range :-)

I read a story the other day about a twelve-year-old
girl who had been to a party and they had poured her
a full glass of vodka. Then everyone made a ring
around her chanting "drink drink drink". The next
thing she knew was when her parents picked her up at
the hospital. Two years later the story appeared in
the news. Obviously a very unpleasant experience but
life goes on etc. etc. Last thing the journalist asked
was if she had been drinking anything since that day?
She replied that now her relationship to alcohol is
a bit more mature...

Technically death by alcohol can result with a BAC as low as 0.30,
assuming ethyl alcohol and the danger increases with increase in BAC.
This is also effected by body weight and composition, health level,
etc.

"As low as"??? 0.3 is so falling down drunk that even an alcoholic has a hard time getting that high.

"As low as" compared with much higher levels. www.brad21.org, for
example, lists the effects of at least two higher levels - .35 and
".40 - higher".

The article I quoted from described .30 as the lower level where
alcohol poisoning could directly result in death.

--
Cheers,

John B.