What kind of bike is this?

I've got a bike I've owned for about 10 years and I've never known the maker.

The previous owner said it was Cinelli, but he was selling it to buy more crack.

Frame:
Nickel plated lugged steel. Cinelli logo's on fork, BB and downtube lug. No
serial number (or grind marks) anywhere. Campy dropouts front and rear. Braze-
ons for bottle cage, top of TT rear brake cable guides, shifter cable guides
under BB, shifters. Conventional road bike geometry 61cm C-T, with chainstay
bridge - rear is as tight as it could be for the long dropout era, an inflated
700C-25 rear tire barely fits behind the seat tube on the way in. Seat stays
taper to a rounded point on either side of the of the seat lug. Brake bridge is
a bowtie looking affair with a squared block for the caliper bolt. No remaining
decals of any kind. The only paint is flat black on the BB area. The lug work
looks a bit hasty with some file marks and unevenness. Very much not heavy,
thing's about as light as a classic steel frame this big ever got and rides
great.

Fitments and fixtures.
It came with all Shimano 105 7s stuff, including their most useless invention
ever the indexed downtube shifter. Cinelli bar 64-42 and 1A stem. Wheels are
Mavic Open 4CD on Shimano 600 hubs.

This "groupo" (the unknown Marx bro.?) puts me in mind of any number of mail
order houses; Nashbar and the like. Maybe it's the large frame with 170mm cranks
and 42 bars, that classic "this is what we bundle" fit. But then I don't know.

Anyway, ideas, guesses, other things to look for are all welcome. No pictures
now. But that's possible in the future.

Thanks,
Ron

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 04:57:34 +0000, RonSonic wrote:

Nickel plated lugged steel. Cinelli logo's on fork, BB and downtube lug.

Are these logo's decals, or something more substantial?

No
serial number (or grind marks) anywhere.

Huh. I'd look on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell.

Campy dropouts front and rear. Braze-
ons for bottle cage, top of TT rear brake cable guides, shifter cable guides
under BB, shifters. Conventional road bike geometry 61cm C-T, with chainstay
bridge - rear is as tight as it could be for the long dropout era, an inflated
700C-25 rear tire barely fits behind the seat tube on the way in. Seat stays
taper to a rounded point on either side of the of the seat lug.

This does not sound like Cinelli. The seat stays should end at the
seatpost binder bolt, with a nicely formed lug. In general lug detail
should be well-designed and subtle, with poor finishing, if it is a real
Cinelli.

area. The lug work looks a bit hasty with some file marks and
unevenness.

Well, that certainly sounds like Cinelli.

This "groupo" (the unknown Marx bro.?) puts me in mind of any number of
mail order houses; Nashbar and the like. Maybe it's the large frame with
170mm cranks and 42 bars, that classic "this is what we bundle" fit. But
then I don't know.

Well, the 170mm cranks were pretty standard, even in a fairly large frame
like this. The 42cm bars are wide for the (presumed) age, but as you
suggest any parts may be replacements.

Anyway, ideas, guesses, other things to look for are all welcome. No
pictures now. But that's possible in the future.

Pictures would help.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember
_`\(,_ | that your initial objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ
(_)/ (_) |

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 01:16:04 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 04:57:34 +0000, RonSonic wrote:

Nickel plated lugged steel. Cinelli logo's on fork, BB and downtube lug.

Are these logo's decals, or something more substantial?

No, these appear to be cast into the parts. The fork has a big Cinelli "C" on
either side of the crown above each leg. The DT lug has a smaller "C" on the DT
leg. The BB is clearly investment cast and has the full Cinelli legend.

No
serial number (or grind marks) anywhere.

Huh. I'd look on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell.

Nah, unless "60x58" is a serial number and it ain't. Not a hint of a serial
number there.

Campy dropouts front and rear. Braze-
ons for bottle cage, top of TT rear brake cable guides, shifter cable guides
under BB, shifters. Conventional road bike geometry 61cm C-T, with chainstay
bridge - rear is as tight as it could be for the long dropout era, an inflated
700C-25 rear tire barely fits behind the seat tube on the way in. Seat stays
taper to a rounded point on either side of the of the seat lug.

This does not sound like Cinelli. The seat stays should end at the
seatpost binder bolt, with a nicely formed lug. In general lug detail
should be well-designed and subtle, with poor finishing, if it is a real
Cinelli.

area. The lug work looks a bit hasty with some file marks and
unevenness.

Well, that certainly sounds like Cinelli.

Yeah, I doubt Cinelli, but am pretty darn sure that's where the lugs and crown
(if not the whole fork) came from. They've sold tons of those over the years.
Unless someone can show that they never, ever sold a lug with their logo in it
and reserved that for their own use - which I don't think is the case.

If this thing was supposed to spoof anyone it was the original owner. What I
bought it for wouldn't buy a bogus decal set much less pantograph and plating.

This "groupo" (the unknown Marx bro.?) puts me in mind of any number of
mail order houses; Nashbar and the like. Maybe it's the large frame with
170mm cranks and 42 bars, that classic "this is what we bundle" fit. But
then I don't know.

Well, the 170mm cranks were pretty standard, even in a fairly large frame
like this. The 42cm bars are wide for the (presumed) age, but as you
suggest any parts may be replacements.

Anyway, ideas, guesses, other things to look for are all welcome. No
pictures now. But that's possible in the future.

Pictures would help.

Yeah, I'm going to have to borrow a camera, or just break down and buy one. The
more I ride this thing and look at it the more I like it, so now I'm finally
getting really curious about it.

Ron

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:00:28 +0000, RonSonic wrote:

No, these appear to be cast into the parts. The fork has a big Cinelli "C" on
either side of the crown above each leg. The DT lug has a smaller "C" on the DT
leg. The BB is clearly investment cast and has the full Cinelli legend.

Cinelli also sold a lot of lugs to builders. If I were them I'd put my
logo on the lugs. Probably what you have is a bike built up with Cinelli
lugs rather than a Cinelli frame (guess based on the description of the
seat stays). Also, I don't recall Cinelli frames having logo's on the
lugs. I have only a Cinelli fork (replacement for a fork broken in a
crash), but it has no such markings.

Nah, unless "60x58" is a serial number and it ain't. Not a hint of a
serial number there.

If that is a size marking, it is an odd one.

You could look at what www.classicrendezvous.com has pictured for Cinelli
to see whether your lugs are similar.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
_`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds,
(_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't
kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:00:28 +0000, RonSonic wrote:

No, these appear to be cast into the parts. The fork has a big Cinelli "C" on
either side of the crown above each leg. The DT lug has a smaller "C" on the DT
leg. The BB is clearly investment cast and has the full Cinelli legend.

Cinelli also sold a lot of lugs to builders. If I were them I'd put my
logo on the lugs. Probably what you have is a bike built up with Cinelli
lugs rather than a Cinelli frame (guess based on the description of the
seat stays). Also, I don't recall Cinelli frames having logo's on the
lugs. I have only a Cinelli fork (replacement for a fork broken in a
crash), but it has no such markings.

Nah, unless "60x58" is a serial number and it ain't. Not a hint of a
serial number there.

If that is a size marking, it is an odd one.

You could look at what www.classicrendezvous.com has pictured for Cinelli
to see whether your lugs are similar.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
_`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds,
(_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't
kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

Peugeot. 1987

Trevor

Peugeot. 1987

Trevor

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:20:25 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:00:28 +0000, RonSonic wrote:

No, these appear to be cast into the parts. The fork has a big Cinelli "C" on
either side of the crown above each leg. The DT lug has a smaller "C" on the DT
leg. The BB is clearly investment cast and has the full Cinelli legend.

Cinelli also sold a lot of lugs to builders. If I were them I'd put my
logo on the lugs. Probably what you have is a bike built up with Cinelli
lugs rather than a Cinelli frame (guess based on the description of the
seat stays). Also, I don't recall Cinelli frames having logo's on the
lugs. I have only a Cinelli fork (replacement for a fork broken in a
crash), but it has no such markings.

I'm figuring it's someone's build with Cinelli lugs and BB.


Nah, unless "60x58" is a serial number and it ain't. Not a hint of a
serial number there.

If that is a size marking, it is an odd one.

You could look at what www.classicrendezvous.com has pictured for Cinelli
to see whether your lugs are similar.

Thanks. I've been looking at and for pictures of bikes and details for that era.
This could help.

Ron

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:20:25 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:00:28 +0000, RonSonic wrote:

No, these appear to be cast into the parts. The fork has a big Cinelli "C" on
either side of the crown above each leg. The DT lug has a smaller "C" on the DT
leg. The BB is clearly investment cast and has the full Cinelli legend.

Cinelli also sold a lot of lugs to builders. If I were them I'd put my
logo on the lugs. Probably what you have is a bike built up with Cinelli
lugs rather than a Cinelli frame (guess based on the description of the
seat stays). Also, I don't recall Cinelli frames having logo's on the
lugs. I have only a Cinelli fork (replacement for a fork broken in a
crash), but it has no such markings.

I'm figuring it's someone's build with Cinelli lugs and BB.


Nah, unless "60x58" is a serial number and it ain't. Not a hint of a
serial number there.

If that is a size marking, it is an odd one.

You could look at what www.classicrendezvous.com has pictured for Cinelli
to see whether your lugs are similar.

Thanks. I've been looking at and for pictures of bikes and details for that era.
This could help.

Ron

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:20:25 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:00:28 +0000, RonSonic wrote:



Nah, unless "60x58" is a serial number and it ain't. Not a hint of a
serial number there.

If that is a size marking, it is an odd one.


60cm seat tube by 58cm top tube? Or reversed?