Informed opinions wanted

I'm curious to read people's opinions on a recent experience I had with
a local bike shop (Now Sports on Lexington in St. Paul, MN).

I bought an '04 Jamis Quest there last week for my wife. The sales
person and I agreed on a price ($1150). We both agreed that the price
included swapping out the cassette for an Ultegra 12-27 at no charge. I
paid for the bike and we wanted to leave it there so they could complete
the change but he insisted that we take it with us so she could ride
until the cassette arrived.

Two days later, I get a phone message telling me that he checked with
the owner and would have to charge me $30 for the new cassette. I called
the owner (assuming that he would stand behind the original deal) and
was told that they intended to charge me the $30. He said the sales guy
had made a mistake and that, apparently, I was expected to pay for his
mistake.

I could have returned the bike but, in the interim, my wife had become
attached to it and no other shops in town had a replacement. I paid the
$30, got the new cassette, and was generally treated as a bad sport for
even complaining about it.

I should mention that buying the bike was extremely unpleasant there
even before the dispute (kind of like buying a new car from a bad
dealer).

They had the bike (last year's model) marked at $1399. As far as I can
tell, this is $100 over the MSRP. Then, I couldn't get a price out of
them for the bike ("how much were you planning on spending?"). I
consider that a reasonable question if a customer hasn't selected a bike
but not as a reply to "how much do you want for this one?"

I've had great experiences at other bike shops around town (Erik's,
Trailhead, County Cycles) but my wife really wanted the Quest and they
were the only shop that had last year's model in her size. I was
surpised that they were not willing to stand behind a concluded deal and
were willing to toss customer satisfaction out the window for $30 on a
bike that expensive.

What do you think?


Bob

"Bob Ray" wrote in message
. 97.136...
I'm curious to read people's opinions on a recent experience I had with
a local bike shop (Now Sports on Lexington in St. Paul, MN).
bike that expensive.

snip

What do you think?


Bob

Hi Bob.

A deal's a deal ... but the manager may have been upset because, after
making the deal, your wife went out and rode the cassette that was supposed
to have been traded out for the Ultegra. That's now a used cassette that
they'll either have to eat or discount (at least I hope they do one of those
two things with it). Had you not insisted on taking the bike while awaiting
the Ultegra cassette, the replacement cassette would have been brand
spankin' new and could have been sold as such.

You might have suggested that you'd pay the $30, but you want either, a) the
cassette that came with the bike (whether you really wanted it or not), or
b) a store credit or warranty or something. Did you dicker like that and
come up empty?

I have no idea what margins are like in the bike business. I do know they
have room to negotiate some. But they've gotta make money to stay in
business.

I'll tell you one thing, any shop owner who would tell me they wouldn't
stand behind a deal one of their employees made and that they were gonna
make an employee eat $30 over something like that ... he'd absolutely NEVER
see my business again. Employees are human and they make mistakes. If you
own a business and can't cope with that fact of life, you won't own a
business long 'cuz you'll do stupid stuff like charge some minimum wage kid
$30 on a deal like this. Sheesh. (BTW, I DO own a business and have
employees.)

FWIW,
--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

Was anything in writing? If so tell the owner you will contact the
BBB, the local paper, the news troub leshooter etc. The quest is a
nice bike but not paying over list price!!! Once you knew the size you
could have called dealers farther away and tried to get one.

On Tue, 03 May 2005 16:56:38 -0500, Bob Ray wrote:

What do you think?

Don't pay for the cassette, but purchase one elsewhere. Walk away and
don't poison your summer by dealing with that shop again. It's not worth
it. You might "win" by arguing with the owner, but it'll cause you way
more than $30 in high blood pressure and stress. LBS's don't make a lot of
money on bikes--so you'll "punish" them more by no longer doing business
with 'em.

Been in that situation before, when the only place to get a certain thing
is a negative vendor. Catch 22, what do ya do? Learn to trust your
instincts.

Had you not insisted on taking the bike while awaiting the Ultegra
cassette, the replacement cassette would have been brand spankin' new and
could have been sold as such.

According to the original poster, the opposite was the case; they buyer was
OK with leaving the bike for the change, but the shop said it was OK to take
the bike and have it changed out later.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

I bought an '04 Jamis Quest there last week for my wife. The sales
person and I agreed on a price ($1150). We both agreed that the price
included swapping out the cassette for an Ultegra 12-27 at no charge. I
paid for the bike and we wanted to leave it there so they could complete
the change but he insisted that we take it with us so she could ride
until the cassette arrived.

Two days later, I get a phone message telling me that he checked with
the owner and would have to charge me $30 for the new cassette. I called
the owner (assuming that he would stand behind the original deal) and
was told that they intended to charge me the $30. He said the sales guy
had made a mistake and that, apparently, I was expected to pay for his
mistake.

I could have returned the bike but, in the interim, my wife had become
attached to it and no other shops in town had a replacement. I paid the
$30, got the new cassette, and was generally treated as a bad sport for
even complaining about it.

Bob:

Things don't sound good from this end, although there might be a different
perspective elsewhere. In general, it sounds like nobody wants to take
responsibility for making a relatively-small mistake. In most shops, if the
salesperson is on any sort of commission, that $30 would come out of what
they make. If the salesperson is on a straight hourly rate, then obviously
the shop eats it. And if the salesperson should have known better, and put
the shop in such an embarassing position, that salesperson is out looking
for different employment.

Normally there would be an extra charge for the 12-27 cassette, because
shops end up with large numbers of stock cassettes that they'll never sell,
or will have to sell at a discount. That part's understandable. But the
after-the-fact haggling is not.

Please keep in mind that, if this were something where the salesperson
neglected to charge for something that had been previously discussed, I
would be supporting the shop and salesperson completely. Mistakes happen,
and honest mistakes that nastily penalize an employee (and bike shop
employees generally work at shops because they enjoy working with bikes,
despite relatively low pay) are a reasonable thing to ask a customer to pay
for, particularly when they had expected to all along. For example, if a
customer purchased a computer with the bike but wasn't charged for it on the
receipt. But this doesn't appear to fall into that category.

I should mention that buying the bike was extremely unpleasant there
even before the dispute (kind of like buying a new car from a bad
dealer).

They had the bike (last year's model) marked at $1399. As far as I can
tell, this is $100 over the MSRP. Then, I couldn't get a price out of
them for the bike ("how much were you planning on spending?"). I
consider that a reasonable question if a customer hasn't selected a bike
but not as a reply to "how much do you want for this one?"

I've had great experiences at other bike shops around town (Erik's,
Trailhead, County Cycles) but my wife really wanted the Quest and they
were the only shop that had last year's model in her size.

It's unfortunate that that particular bike was what your wife had to have;
as has been discussed here previously, you're shopping for a shop as much as
you are a bike. How well they fit someone, make sure it's appropriate for
their needs, and take care of things down the road... those are all very
important in terms of the value of what's being sold. And you bring up the
point that a positive buying environment is relevant to enjoying the bike as
well, something I need to keep in mind.

For what it's worth, I avoid buying things at places where haggling is
involved like the plague. That's just not me, and it's not the way we run
our business. Some people enjoy it, but for me, it takes years off my life
every time I have to buy a car, and I won't subject myself (or my customers)
to that in our business.

But again... regarding the specifics of this purchase... I'm only seeing one
side of it. It doesn't sound good from that one side, I'll admit, but it's
not a good idea to judge something based on knowing only one side of things.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Bob Ray" wrote in message
. 97.136...
I'm curious to read people's opinions on a recent experience I had with
a local bike shop (Now Sports on Lexington in St. Paul, MN).

I bought an '04 Jamis Quest there last week for my wife. The sales
person and I agreed on a price ($1150). We both agreed that the price
included swapping out the cassette for an Ultegra 12-27 at no charge. I
paid for the bike and we wanted to leave it there so they could complete
the change but he insisted that we take it with us so she could ride
until the cassette arrived.

Two days later, I get a phone message telling me that he checked with
the owner and would have to charge me $30 for the new cassette. I called
the owner (assuming that he would stand behind the original deal) and
was told that they intended to charge me the $30. He said the sales guy
had made a mistake and that, apparently, I was expected to pay for his
mistake.

I could have returned the bike but, in the interim, my wife had become
attached to it and no other shops in town had a replacement. I paid the
$30, got the new cassette, and was generally treated as a bad sport for
even complaining about it.

I should mention that buying the bike was extremely unpleasant there
even before the dispute (kind of like buying a new car from a bad
dealer).

They had the bike (last year's model) marked at $1399. As far as I can
tell, this is $100 over the MSRP. Then, I couldn't get a price out of
them for the bike ("how much were you planning on spending?"). I
consider that a reasonable question if a customer hasn't selected a bike
but not as a reply to "how much do you want for this one?"

I've had great experiences at other bike shops around town (Erik's,
Trailhead, County Cycles) but my wife really wanted the Quest and they
were the only shop that had last year's model in her size. I was
surpised that they were not willing to stand behind a concluded deal and
were willing to toss customer satisfaction out the window for $30 on a
bike that expensive.

What do you think?


Bob

Bob Ray wrote:

What do you think?

I think I wouldn't shop there again.

Rich

I reckon that where you buy the bike is almost as important as the bike
itself. Generally - its where you'll be going for post-sales service,
any minor check ups ,etc, etc.

My LBS (who I purchased my Orbea from), as an example, has fitted a new
rear cassette for free for me (I paid for the cassette from them
though), trued my wheels for a discount, etc, etc, beacsue I bought the
actual bike from them.

I'd expect this sort of post-sales service from wherever I bought the
bike, and would go elsewhere if it was apparent I wasn'tgoing to get it
- EVEN if that meant I'd have to opt for a different brand of bike.

Sorry - realise this doesn't help you now. But its an important message
(I think, anyway) for those looking at purchasing in the future...

Cheers all,
Absent Husband

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
om...
Had you not insisted on taking the bike while awaiting the Ultegra
cassette, the replacement cassette would have been brand spankin' new and
could have been sold as such.

According to the original poster, the opposite was the case; they buyer
was OK with leaving the bike for the change, but the shop said it was OK
to take the bike and have it changed out later.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

DANG! You're right!

nevermind

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

I think they were will to toss customer satisfaction out the window for
$1180.