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Does anything dissolve paint thinner



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 3rd 19, 04:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,116
Default Does anything dissolve paint thinner

On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 18:28:52 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:49:25 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 14:05:02 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:
You must never have used IPA on grease.


Actually, I have. It works well at dissolving hydrocarbon based
non-polar greases. It's also good for removing silicon grease from
CPU's and heat sinks. Not so good as a pre-wash for removing grease
stains.

It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent.
Andy


Alcohol is an organic solvent because it contains carbon linked to
hydrogen, oxygen, or nitrogen (except for carbonates, cyanides,
carbides, etc).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol
...it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning
fluid, especially for dissolving oils

isopropyl alcohol vs degreaser
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/isopropyl-alcohol-vs-degreaser/
IPA is a solvent, it dissolves grease (and water, and anything
else) into itself, so you can wipe it away.

Degreaser is a surfactant, so it allows the grease/oil
to form microscopic globules in the water, which you then
wash or wipe away. It’s essentially concentrated soap.

Both will do the same job, but degreaser works better at
stripping large amounts of gunk off drivechains as the
degreaser and oil form an emulsion, which you can then wash
away. If you put IPA in a chain cleaner you’d just be diluting
the oil and it still wouldn’t wash off. IPA works best for
removing small amounts of gunk, or where you don’t want to
leave a trace of soap/water afterwards for example cleaning
calipers and levers after bleeding brakes, or sloshing around
in suspension forks to remove the last traces of the old oil
and any dirt.

By the way, you're welcome.


isopropyl alcohol vs degreaser
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/isopropyl-alcohol-vs-degreaser/
IPA is a solvent, it dissolves grease (and water, and anything
else) into itself, so you can wipe it away.


I am a retired chemist with over 35 years of experience.
And I had to dissolve many substances in order to run analyses and clean equipment.
You can say all you want, but IPA NEVER HAS and NEVER WILL dissolve oils and greases.
Andy


Well, I guess I'll just have to try it. Found a tiny 50 ml beaker and
added 10 ml of 91% IPA. I then dumped in a dime size blob of whatever
greases I could find around the house. I then stirred the solution
lightly (no stirring rod). If the grease dissolved into the IPA, then
IPA can be used as a solvent to clean it. If it remained mostly
intact, it's insoluble.

After that, I found a white pine board, and ground a dime size spot of
grease into the board with my thumb. I then wiped it clean with a
paper towel. In all cases, there was some residue embedded in the
wood. I then used a different paper towel to try and clean off the
residue. If IPA was able to clean the embedded grease, then I would
consider IPA a solvent.

Soluble? Pine board
Lithium white grease. Yes Yes
10-30wt engine oil. No Somewhat
WD-40 No No
3-in-one oil. Yes Yes
Unlabelled gear lube. Somewhat Yes
Moly disulfide grease. No No
Al2O3 thermal goo. Yes Most but not all
LPS3 (wax film lube). Yes Yes
Mystery black grease gun. Yes Most but not all

The results showing "most but not all" seem to have left a solid
particle residue in the grain of the wood which I could not remove
with IPA and scrubbing. The greasy carrier was removed, but not the
solid particles.

Sorry, no photos because I didn't want to get grease all over my
smartphone or camera. Maybe if I can dig up an accomplice, I can make
a YouTube video and become famous.

If I wanted to do it correctly, I would use a viscosity tester
(tilting glass slide). Or, I could stir more vigorously, and use a
centrifuge to see if the grease and IPA could be separated. If I feel
ambitious or someone has a better idea, I can easily re-run the tests
and add a few more greases that are more likely to be found on a
bicycle chain.

I can't conclude anything either way with what I'll readily admit are
two rather lousy tests. Offhand, it would seem that some greases and
oils will not dissolve in IPA, while others will to varying degrees.

Meanwhile, I'll burn some time pondering all the web sites
recommending IPA for grease and stain removal:
https://www.google.com/search?q=alcohol+grease+removal


Drivel: One thing that 91% IPA is good for is removing the sticky
depolymerized rubber goo (paint) from the surface of computer
keyboards, mice, toys, etc. (Thank you Logitech). I've had to
recycle or toss far too much of this stuff simply because I couldn't
remove the sticky goo. IPA works, but does require some heavy duty
scrubbing. What's left is bare plastic, but that's better than
dealing with the sticky rubberish mess.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Ads
  #22  
Old September 3rd 19, 04:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Does anything dissolve paint thinner

On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 18:35:25 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 6:52:32 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/2/2019 1:51 PM, AK wrote:
I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain.

Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag?

I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners.

Thanks,
Andy



p.s.
Any particular reason you don't use auto disc brake cleaner?
It's cheap and available everywhere which is why it's a
popular cleaning agent. Ours is a mix of alcohol and acetone
but I'm sure other similar versions exist.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I found a more environmentally clean option.

Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle.

8 oz. water
1 Tbsp Vinegar
1 Tbsp Baking Soda
1 Tsp Dish Soap



I sort of think there is one thing you chain washers might want to
think about. Your freshly washed and cleaned chains have no
lubrication at all :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #23  
Old September 3rd 19, 04:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,116
Default Does anything dissolve paint thinner

On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

AK wrote:
I found a more environmentally clean option.

Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle.

8 oz. water
1 Tbsp Vinegar
1 Tbsp Baking Soda
1 Tsp Dish Soap


Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well,
just not put on as much of a show.


The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam,
where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an
ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the
detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic
cleaner.

"homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution"
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786
1) plain old white vinegar
2) salt
3) baking soda
4) lemonshine
5) citric acid
6) lemon juice
7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner
Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe.


"How to make a Volcano"
http://www.sciencefun.org/kidszone/experiments/how-to-make-a-volcano/

"Equation for the Reaction Between Baking Soda and Vinegar"
https://www.thoughtco.com/equation-for-the-reaction-of-baking-soda-and-vinegar-604043



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #24  
Old September 3rd 19, 04:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AK[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default Does anything dissolve paint thinner

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 10:06:02 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 18:28:52 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:49:25 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 14:05:02 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:
You must never have used IPA on grease.


Actually, I have. It works well at dissolving hydrocarbon based
non-polar greases. It's also good for removing silicon grease from
CPU's and heat sinks. Not so good as a pre-wash for removing grease
stains.

It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent.
Andy

Alcohol is an organic solvent because it contains carbon linked to
hydrogen, oxygen, or nitrogen (except for carbonates, cyanides,
carbides, etc).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol
...it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning
fluid, especially for dissolving oils

isopropyl alcohol vs degreaser
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/isopropyl-alcohol-vs-degreaser/
IPA is a solvent, it dissolves grease (and water, and anything
else) into itself, so you can wipe it away.

Degreaser is a surfactant, so it allows the grease/oil
to form microscopic globules in the water, which you then
wash or wipe away. It’s essentially concentrated soap.

Both will do the same job, but degreaser works better at
stripping large amounts of gunk off drivechains as the
degreaser and oil form an emulsion, which you can then wash
away. If you put IPA in a chain cleaner you’d just be diluting
the oil and it still wouldn’t wash off. IPA works best for
removing small amounts of gunk, or where you don’t want to
leave a trace of soap/water afterwards for example cleaning
calipers and levers after bleeding brakes, or sloshing around
in suspension forks to remove the last traces of the old oil
and any dirt.

By the way, you're welcome.


isopropyl alcohol vs degreaser
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/isopropyl-alcohol-vs-degreaser/
IPA is a solvent, it dissolves grease (and water, and anything
else) into itself, so you can wipe it away.


I am a retired chemist with over 35 years of experience.
And I had to dissolve many substances in order to run analyses and clean equipment.
You can say all you want, but IPA NEVER HAS and NEVER WILL dissolve oils and greases.
Andy


Well, I guess I'll just have to try it. Found a tiny 50 ml beaker and
added 10 ml of 91% IPA. I then dumped in a dime size blob of whatever
greases I could find around the house. I then stirred the solution
lightly (no stirring rod). If the grease dissolved into the IPA, then
IPA can be used as a solvent to clean it. If it remained mostly
intact, it's insoluble.

After that, I found a white pine board, and ground a dime size spot of
grease into the board with my thumb. I then wiped it clean with a
paper towel. In all cases, there was some residue embedded in the
wood. I then used a different paper towel to try and clean off the
residue. If IPA was able to clean the embedded grease, then I would
consider IPA a solvent.

Soluble? Pine board
Lithium white grease. Yes Yes
10-30wt engine oil. No Somewhat
WD-40 No No
3-in-one oil. Yes Yes
Unlabelled gear lube. Somewhat Yes
Moly disulfide grease. No No
Al2O3 thermal goo. Yes Most but not all
LPS3 (wax film lube). Yes Yes
Mystery black grease gun. Yes Most but not all

The results showing "most but not all" seem to have left a solid
particle residue in the grain of the wood which I could not remove
with IPA and scrubbing. The greasy carrier was removed, but not the
solid particles.

Sorry, no photos because I didn't want to get grease all over my
smartphone or camera. Maybe if I can dig up an accomplice, I can make
a YouTube video and become famous.

If I wanted to do it correctly, I would use a viscosity tester
(tilting glass slide). Or, I could stir more vigorously, and use a
centrifuge to see if the grease and IPA could be separated. If I feel
ambitious or someone has a better idea, I can easily re-run the tests
and add a few more greases that are more likely to be found on a
bicycle chain.

I can't conclude anything either way with what I'll readily admit are
two rather lousy tests. Offhand, it would seem that some greases and
oils will not dissolve in IPA, while others will to varying degrees.

Meanwhile, I'll burn some time pondering all the web sites
recommending IPA for grease and stain removal:
https://www.google.com/search?q=alcohol+grease+removal


Drivel: One thing that 91% IPA is good for is removing the sticky
depolymerized rubber goo (paint) from the surface of computer
keyboards, mice, toys, etc. (Thank you Logitech). I've had to
recycle or toss far too much of this stuff simply because I couldn't
remove the sticky goo. IPA works, but does require some heavy duty
scrubbing. What's left is bare plastic, but that's better than
dealing with the sticky rubberish mess.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


I am not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to share what I have learned.

You used good test methods.

Your comment about

few more greases that are more likely to be found on a
bicycle chain.


got me very interested.

I recently had my local bike shop install a new chain.

I did not use any chain lubricant.

Within less than a week, my chain had a coating of grease.

So I thought, where did that grease come from?

I understand where the dirt comes from.

I remembered that I pretty much always ride at least once a week through water puddles or rain.

So I think that water + rain = grease.

For a while I used 70% isopropyl alcohol to pull out the water when I wanted to pull the water out of something so it would dry quickly.

I later learned that 90% IPA was much more efficient.

What do you think?

Andy


  #25  
Old September 3rd 19, 04:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AK[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default Does anything dissolve paint thinner

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 10:13:11 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 18:35:25 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 6:52:32 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/2/2019 1:51 PM, AK wrote:
I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain.

Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag?

I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners.

Thanks,
Andy



p.s.
Any particular reason you don't use auto disc brake cleaner?
It's cheap and available everywhere which is why it's a
popular cleaning agent. Ours is a mix of alcohol and acetone
but I'm sure other similar versions exist.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I found a more environmentally clean option.

Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle.

8 oz. water
1 Tbsp Vinegar
1 Tbsp Baking Soda
1 Tsp Dish Soap



I sort of think there is one thing you chain washers might want to
think about. Your freshly washed and cleaned chains have no
lubrication at all :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


John,

I use White Lightning Easy Lube after I clean my chain.

It dries to the touch after use.

Andy
  #26  
Old September 3rd 19, 04:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AK[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default Does anything dissolve paint thinner

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 10:19:29 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

AK wrote:
I found a more environmentally clean option.

Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle.

8 oz. water
1 Tbsp Vinegar
1 Tbsp Baking Soda
1 Tsp Dish Soap


Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well,
just not put on as much of a show.


The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam,
where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an
ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the
detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic
cleaner.

"homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution"
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786
1) plain old white vinegar
2) salt
3) baking soda
4) lemonshine
5) citric acid
6) lemon juice
7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner
Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe.


"How to make a Volcano"
http://www.sciencefun.org/kidszone/experiments/how-to-make-a-volcano/

"Equation for the Reaction Between Baking Soda and Vinegar"
https://www.thoughtco.com/equation-for-the-reaction-of-baking-soda-and-vinegar-604043



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


You are right.

I think removing the baking soda would be beneficial.

The vinegar is slightly acidic which the baking soda would neutralize.

Andy
  #27  
Old September 3rd 19, 05:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 381
Default Does anything dissolve paint thinner

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

AK wrote:
I found a more environmentally clean option.

Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle.

8 oz. water
1 Tbsp Vinegar
1 Tbsp Baking Soda
1 Tsp Dish Soap


Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well,
just not put on as much of a show.


The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam,
where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an
ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the
detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic
cleaner.

"homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution"
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786
1) plain old white vinegar
2) salt
3) baking soda
4) lemonshine
5) citric acid
6) lemon juice
7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner
Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe.


"How to make a Volcano"
http://www.sciencefun.org/kidszone/experiments/how-to-make-a-volcano/

"Equation for the Reaction Between Baking Soda and Vinegar"
https://www.thoughtco.com/equation-for-the-reaction-of-baking-soda-and-vinegar-604043




I understand the concept, but I can’t imagine the collapsing bubbles
imparting any substantial amount of physical scrubbing action. Maybe the
expanding bubbles might force the soap solution deeper into parts, but at
that dilution ratio, and considering that you’re supposed to mix it
together in a spray bottle BEFORE using it, I have low hopes. If I had to
come up with a homemade EZ-Clean solution, I would use dish soap and
boiling water.

  #28  
Old September 3rd 19, 06:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,116
Default Does anything dissolve paint thinner

On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 20:46:18 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

I am not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to share what I have learned.
You used good test methods.


I like tests that produce numbers. Numbers can be compared and such
tests are allegedly reproducible. What I did was do what I could
(without cleaning up my messy workbench).

Your comment about

few more greases that are more likely to be found on a
bicycle chain.


got me very interested.


I recently had my local bike shop install a new chain.
I did not use any chain lubricant.


Did you feel any grease on the chain? New chains, out of the box, are
delivered covered with the factory grease and in a plastic bag to
prevent the grease from making a mess. The grease is quite good
quality and is distributed properly around the pin and bushing, which
are the important bearing surfaces. If the LBS (local bike shop)
"cleaned" the chain with solvent, and failed to re-lubricate it with
something (grease, wax, dry lube, PTFE, magic miracle lube, etc) then
the chain will wear quickly. However, quickly is measure in miles or
km. It sounds like you didn't ride very far or much, which is far
less than it takes to ruin a chain. I suggest you go back to your LBS
and ask them what they did and what they recommend you now do.

Within less than a week, my chain had a coating of grease.
So I thought, where did that grease come from?


Magic. The factory grease is usually all over the chain. However, if
the LBS wiped off the grease from side plates, it might look like
there was no grease, but there might have been plenty inside the chain
parts. A little warm sun and some riding, would eventually migrate
this grease to other parts of the chain. Otherwise, it has to be
magic.

I understand where the dirt comes from.
I remembered that I pretty much always ride at least once a week through water puddles or rain.


Water + non-lubricated bicycle chain = rust
So you see any rust on the chain? If not, the chain was coated with
some kind of chain lube or protective coating (LPS 3 wax).

So I think that water + rain = grease.


Rain is water, so adding additional water does not produce anything
new. Well, maybe if it's raining oil. Do you live under an oil well
or something similar? A storm or hurricane that just over-ran an oil
field or oil spill?

For a while I used 70% isopropyl alcohol to pull out the water
when I wanted to pull the water out of something so it would dry quickly.


70% IPA is formulated specifically for its antiseptic qualities. Most
bacteria are killed by alcohol by denaturing proteins. A little water
makes the process more efficient. 91% IPA is better for cleaning.
Note that both concentrations are hygroscopic and will absorb water
from the air. Keep the container closed.

I later learned that 90% IPA was much more efficient.


For cleaning 91% is best. For medicinal purposes, 70% works better.

What do you think?


Now that you've removed some of the grease with alcohol, you should do
something about re-lubricating the chain. I don't ride enough to
require regular chain lubrication, so I'll keep my magic chain elixir
formula to myself. However, I'm sure that there are plenty of others
in this newsgroup who will gladly offer their experience and
methodology.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #29  
Old September 3rd 19, 06:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,116
Default Does anything dissolve paint thinner

On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 04:46:28 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

AK wrote:
I found a more environmentally clean option.

Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle.

8 oz. water
1 Tbsp Vinegar
1 Tbsp Baking Soda
1 Tsp Dish Soap


Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well,
just not put on as much of a show.


The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam,
where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an
ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the
detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic
cleaner.

"homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution"
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786
1) plain old white vinegar
2) salt
3) baking soda
4) lemonshine
5) citric acid
6) lemon juice
7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner
Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe.


I understand the concept, but I can’t imagine the collapsing bubbles
imparting any substantial amount of physical scrubbing action.


The cavitation produced by the collapsing bubbles is capable of
pitting soft metals. However, there are no soft metals on a bicycle
chain, so I guess it's safe.

Ultrasonic Cleaning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_cleaning
Ultrasonic cleaning uses cavitation bubbles induced
by high frequency pressure (sound) waves to agitate a liquid.
The agitation produces high forces on contaminants adhering
to substrates like metals, plastics, glass, rubber, and
ceramics. This action also penetrates blind holes, cracks,
and recesses. The intention is to thoroughly remove all
traces of contamination tightly adhering or embedded onto
solid surfaces.

Seems (to me) similar to the bubbling action of vinegar and baking
soda. However, there's one important difference. The ultrasonic
cleaner delivers quite a bit of energy to force the soap solution to
produce bubbles, while the vinegar and soda mix has much less chemical
energy. At some point during the chemical reaction, the vinegar and
soda mix might approach the energy level of the ultrasonic cleaner,
but for very long.

Maybe the
expanding bubbles might force the soap solution deeper into parts, but at
that dilution ratio, and considering that you’re supposed to mix it
together in a spray bottle BEFORE using it, I have low hopes. If I had to
come up with a homemade EZ-Clean solution, I would use dish soap and
boiling water.


I currently don't have an ultrasonic cleaner. However, I do have a
two stage vacuum pump and chamber (modified pressure cooker). I use
it mostly for getting the bubbles out of resin molds and epoxy potting
compound. However, when the chamber is filled with water, I can make
it cold boil by simply reducing the atmospheric pressure. I have no
idea what will happen, but a little soap in the water might be a good
way to clean things without the risk of melting something from hot
water at atmospheric pressure. (Yet another project).

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #30  
Old September 3rd 19, 09:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AK[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default Does anything dissolve paint thinner

On Tuesday, September 3, 2019 at 12:51:02 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 04:46:28 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

AK wrote:
I found a more environmentally clean option.

Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle.

8 oz. water
1 Tbsp Vinegar
1 Tbsp Baking Soda
1 Tsp Dish Soap

Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well,
just not put on as much of a show.

The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam,
where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an
ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the
detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic
cleaner.

"homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution"
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786
1) plain old white vinegar
2) salt
3) baking soda
4) lemonshine
5) citric acid
6) lemon juice
7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner
Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe.


I understand the concept, but I can’t imagine the collapsing bubbles
imparting any substantial amount of physical scrubbing action.


The cavitation produced by the collapsing bubbles is capable of
pitting soft metals. However, there are no soft metals on a bicycle
chain, so I guess it's safe.

Ultrasonic Cleaning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_cleaning
Ultrasonic cleaning uses cavitation bubbles induced
by high frequency pressure (sound) waves to agitate a liquid.
The agitation produces high forces on contaminants adhering
to substrates like metals, plastics, glass, rubber, and
ceramics. This action also penetrates blind holes, cracks,
and recesses. The intention is to thoroughly remove all
traces of contamination tightly adhering or embedded onto
solid surfaces.

Seems (to me) similar to the bubbling action of vinegar and baking
soda. However, there's one important difference. The ultrasonic
cleaner delivers quite a bit of energy to force the soap solution to
produce bubbles, while the vinegar and soda mix has much less chemical
energy. At some point during the chemical reaction, the vinegar and
soda mix might approach the energy level of the ultrasonic cleaner,
but for very long.

Maybe the
expanding bubbles might force the soap solution deeper into parts, but at
that dilution ratio, and considering that you’re supposed to mix it
together in a spray bottle BEFORE using it, I have low hopes. If I had to
come up with a homemade EZ-Clean solution, I would use dish soap and
boiling water.


I currently don't have an ultrasonic cleaner. However, I do have a
two stage vacuum pump and chamber (modified pressure cooker). I use
it mostly for getting the bubbles out of resin molds and epoxy potting
compound. However, when the chamber is filled with water, I can make
it cold boil by simply reducing the atmospheric pressure. I have no
idea what will happen, but a little soap in the water might be a good
way to clean things without the risk of melting something from hot
water at atmospheric pressure. (Yet another project).

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab.

It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F.

I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water.

I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off.

:-)

Andy

 




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