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Sirect Mount Brakes?



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 8th 19, 03:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,230
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg

Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of clears it up. Thanks.


Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins. That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou


And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake. https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg I do worry about the long-term availability of direct mount brakes, but then again, they use standard pads, and my brakes typically do last the lives of my bikes.

-- Jay Beattie.
Ads
  #12  
Old September 8th 19, 05:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 908
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 7:11:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg

Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of clears it up. Thanks.


Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins. That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou


And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake. https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg I do worry about the long-term availability of direct mount brakes, but then again, they use standard pads, and my brakes typically do last the lives of my bikes.

-- Jay Beattie.


If you look at that break it is the same thing as a cantilever which never worked well. Adding leverage may improve it but there CERTAINLY can't be a better rim brake than the latest Campy Skeleton brake.
  #13  
Old September 8th 19, 06:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,668
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On 9/8/2019 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg

Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of clears it up. Thanks.


Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins. That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou


And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake. https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg


That is a rather unique brake. About as unique as the Shimano AX:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...d0809&Enum=117

I enjoy occasionally browsing through _The Data Book_, which is mostly a
collection of drawings of then-new bike components from the 1920s
through the 1960s or so. There are countless different brake designs
illustrated. It goes a long way toward proving there's nothing much new
under the sun, at least in mechanical bike parts.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #14  
Old September 8th 19, 07:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,772
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On 9/8/2019 12:21 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2019 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom
Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi
wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom
Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out
with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any
different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount
differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed
pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg


Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake




--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to
the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard
mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of
clears it up. Thanks.

Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins.
That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a
fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou


And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake.
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg


That is a rather unique brake. About as unique as the
Shimano AX:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...d0809&Enum=117


I enjoy occasionally browsing through _The Data Book_, which
is mostly a collection of drawings of then-new bike
components from the 1920s through the 1960s or so. There are
countless different brake designs illustrated. It goes a
long way toward proving there's nothing much new under the
sun, at least in mechanical bike parts.



Weird is a personal attribution.

I would counter that brazed mounts for a Mafac Raid (a
wildly popular brake at the time) was a logical improvement
at negligible upcharge on an artisan custom frame of the era.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #15  
Old September 8th 19, 09:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,668
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On 9/8/2019 2:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2019 12:21 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2019 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom
Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi
wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom
Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out
with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any
different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount
differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed
pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg


Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake




--
Andrew Muzi
** www.yellowjersey.org/
** Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to
the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard
mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of
clears it up. Thanks.

Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins.
That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a
fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou

And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake.
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg


That is a rather unique brake. About as unique as the
Shimano AX:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...d0809&Enum=117



I enjoy occasionally browsing through _The Data Book_, which
is mostly a collection of drawings of then-new bike
components from the 1920s through the 1960s or so. There are
countless different brake designs illustrated. It goes a
long way toward proving there's nothing much new under the
sun, at least in mechanical bike parts.



Weird is a personal attribution.

I would counter that brazed mounts for a Mafac Raid (a wildly popular
brake at the time) was a logical improvement at negligible upcharge on
an artisan custom frame of the era.


I started avidly bicycling in the era of centerpull brakes - ones with
rather long arms, to give clearance for 1 1/4" tires plus fenders. Those
were very flexible indeed.

As a newbie, I remember seeing in one mail order catalog a touring bike
being sold with centerpull brakes mounted on brazed-on studs, as is done
with cantilever brakes. I'd never heard of such a thing, but I could see
that would make things considerably more rigid.

Eventually, before a re-paint, I brazed mounts onto that old Raleigh's
forks and stays, for Shimano 600 short arm cantilevers. I think these
are probably more rigid than the centerpulls would have been, if mounted
on similar studs. That bike just got back from a heavily loaded grocery
run. The brakes still work fine, decades later.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #16  
Old September 8th 19, 09:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,518
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Sunday, 8 September 2019 13:21:37 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2019 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg

Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of clears it up. Thanks.

Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins. That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou


And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake. https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg


That is a rather unique brake. About as unique as the Shimano AX:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...d0809&Enum=117

I enjoy occasionally browsing through _The Data Book_, which is mostly a
collection of drawings of then-new bike components from the 1920s
through the 1960s or so. There are countless different brake designs
illustrated. It goes a long way toward proving there's nothing much new
under the sun, at least in mechanical bike parts.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Nice brakes those AX ones are. I have two pairs of Dura Ace AX and two pairs of Adamas AX and like them very much.

Cheers
  #17  
Old September 8th 19, 09:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,518
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Sunday, 8 September 2019 12:45:41 UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 7:11:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg

Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of clears it up. Thanks.

Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins. That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou


And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake. https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg I do worry about the long-term availability of direct mount brakes, but then again, they use standard pads, and my brakes typically do last the lives of my bikes.

-- Jay Beattie.


If you look at that break it is the same thing as a cantilever which never worked well. Adding leverage may improve it but there CERTAINLY can't be a better rim brake than the latest Campy Skeleton brake.


I can stop my FULLY LOADED cantilever brake touring bike or my cantilever equipped MTB very well in the dry or in the wet. Indeed the limiting factor of braking with my cantilever brakes isn't the stopping power of the brakes but is the road surface. On many roads and trails my tires will start sliding because the cantilever brakes are capable of locking them up.

Cheers
  #18  
Old September 9th 19, 12:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 472
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 7:21:37 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2019 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg

Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of clears it up. Thanks.

Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins. That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou


And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake. https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg


That is a rather unique brake. About as unique as the Shimano AX:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...d0809&Enum=117

I enjoy occasionally browsing through _The Data Book_, which is mostly a
collection of drawings of then-new bike components from the 1920s
through the 1960s or so. There are countless different brake designs
illustrated. It goes a long way toward proving there's nothing much new
under the sun, at least in mechanical bike parts.


What did you expect? It is just a lever with on one end the actuation and on the other end the brake pad. Only leverage , stiffness an brake pad material can vary (to some extend). Hydraulic disk brakes are fundamental different.

Lou
  #20  
Old September 10th 19, 11:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 908
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 11:59:46 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2019 12:21 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2019 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom
Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi
wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom
Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out
with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any
different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount
differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed
pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg


Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake




--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to
the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard
mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of
clears it up. Thanks.

Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins.
That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a
fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou

And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake.
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg


That is a rather unique brake. About as unique as the
Shimano AX:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...d0809&Enum=117


I enjoy occasionally browsing through _The Data Book_, which
is mostly a collection of drawings of then-new bike
components from the 1920s through the 1960s or so. There are
countless different brake designs illustrated. It goes a
long way toward proving there's nothing much new under the
sun, at least in mechanical bike parts.



Weird is a personal attribution.

I would counter that brazed mounts for a Mafac Raid (a
wildly popular brake at the time) was a logical improvement
at negligible upcharge on an artisan custom frame of the era.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


When I look at those brakes I see the insides of those Campy Record brakes with the triangular covers that couldn't stop you at 5 mph.
 




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