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I get 3 miles per banana, do you?



 
 
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  #31  
Old March 26th 09, 04:32 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Dave Larrington
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Posts: 2,069
Default I get 3 miles per banana, do you?

In ,
Opus

Be skeptical all you want, I forgot the exact number of hours the test
requires the engine to stay at full power, but several manufacturers
have used those test results to project 100.000 mile record runs,
particularly Subaru and Benz. That's 100,000 miles at full power only
stopping for gas or diesel, driver changes every 4 hours as required
by the FIA for safety, and oil changes and air filter replacement. The
used to allow for spark plug changes, but as I haven't been involved
in that kind of testing in more than 20 years I don't know what the
rules are for changing spark plugs. I know that when Subaru did their
record attempt they changed spark plugs at 50.000 miles but that was
last century. Benz' last attempt was with a diesel so they didn't have
any plugs to change.


http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/Records/lists.html

--
Dave Larrington
http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk
Hanging from the lamppost on the corner of the street.


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  #32  
Old March 26th 09, 05:56 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
[email protected][_2_]
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Posts: 30
Default I get 3 miles per banana, do you?

On Mar 26, 7:55*am, Opus wrote:
On Mar 25, 4:58 pm, " wrote:

snip


I looked around and saw a lot of pages touting "certified SAE
Horsepower" but I did not find anything that actually stated the
actual testing procedure without paying for it. *I am highly skeptical
that a gasoline automobile motor could last 15 minutes on a dyno at
full power where as it quite well established that a commercial diesel
motor can do this for hours even days on end...


Jon


Jon


Be skeptical all you want, I forgot the exact number of hours the test
requires the engine to stay at full power, but several manufacturers
have used those test results to project 100.000 mile record runs,
particularly Subaru and Benz. That's 100,000 miles at full power only
stopping for gas or diesel, driver changes every 4 hours as required
by the FIA for safety, and oil changes and air filter replacement. The
used to allow for spark plug changes, but as I haven't been involved
in that kind of testing in more than 20 years I don't know what the
rules are for changing spark plugs. I know that when Subaru did their
record attempt they changed spark plugs at 50.000 miles but that was
last century. Benz' last attempt was with a diesel so they didn't have
any plugs to change.

Opus


This is really off topic but full power for over a long period of time
doesn't mean accelerating and slowing as one does in a fast moving car
but rather continuous full output at maximum rpm as one can do in a
truck climbing a grade or boat/ship on a long voyage. I am skeptical
that you could put a "400hp" motor out of an SUV or sedan, gear it
correctly so that it could maintain maximum rpm and maximum HP and
have it actually put out that 300hp hauling an 80,000 pound rig up the
GrapeVine..

Think about that the next time you see an unloaded semi breeze by you
at 75mph up a long 6% grade and then realize that truck weighs around
30,000 lbs.

Jon
  #33  
Old March 26th 09, 05:58 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
[email protected][_2_]
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Posts: 30
Default I get 3 miles per banana, do you?

On Mar 26, 9:56*am, " wrote:
On Mar 26, 7:55*am, Opus wrote:



On Mar 25, 4:58 pm, " wrote:


snip


I looked around and saw a lot of pages touting "certified SAE
Horsepower" but I did not find anything that actually stated the
actual testing procedure without paying for it. *I am highly skeptical
that a gasoline automobile motor could last 15 minutes on a dyno at
full power where as it quite well established that a commercial diesel
motor can do this for hours even days on end...


Jon


Jon


Be skeptical all you want, I forgot the exact number of hours the test
requires the engine to stay at full power, but several manufacturers
have used those test results to project 100.000 mile record runs,
particularly Subaru and Benz. That's 100,000 miles at full power only
stopping for gas or diesel, driver changes every 4 hours as required
by the FIA for safety, and oil changes and air filter replacement. The
used to allow for spark plug changes, but as I haven't been involved
in that kind of testing in more than 20 years I don't know what the
rules are for changing spark plugs. I know that when Subaru did their
record attempt they changed spark plugs at 50.000 miles but that was
last century. Benz' last attempt was with a diesel so they didn't have
any plugs to change.


Opus


This is really off topic but full power for over a long period of time
doesn't mean accelerating and slowing as one does in a fast moving car
but rather continuous full output at maximum rpm as one can do in a
truck climbing a grade or boat/ship on a long voyage. *I am skeptical
that you could put a "400hp" motor out of an SUV or sedan, gear it
correctly so that it could maintain maximum rpm and maximum HP and
have it actually put out that 300hp hauling an 80,000 pound rig up the
GrapeVine..

Think about that the next time you see an unloaded semi breeze by you
at 75mph up a long 6% grade and then realize that truck weighs around
30,000 lbs.

Jon


correction: I meant to write "I am skeptical that you could put a
"400hp" motor out of an SUV or sedan, gear it
correctly so that it could maintain maximum rpm and maximum HP and
have it actually put out that 400hp hauling an 80,000 pound rig up the
GrapeVine.."
  #34  
Old March 26th 09, 10:24 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
[email protected][_2_]
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Posts: 55
Default I get 3 miles per banana, do you?

Hey, we get some data from a railroad!
CSX says 423 miles for 1 ton of cargo for 1 gallon of fuel.
They even claim human powered bicycles get infinite miles per gallon!
But WE know they forgot the extra calories needed to do the pedalling!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1TPBR6rSSg

  #35  
Old March 27th 09, 04:51 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Opus[_2_]
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Posts: 414
Default I get 3 miles per banana, do you?

On Mar 26, 9:24 pm, wrote:
Hey, we get some data from a railroad!
CSX says 423 miles for 1 ton of cargo for 1 gallon of fuel.
They even claim human powered bicycles get infinite miles per gallon!
But WE know they forgot the extra calories needed to do the pedalling!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1TPBR6rSSg


I love that cargo trike they show pulling the really big trailer full
of bananas.

Opus
  #36  
Old March 28th 09, 02:41 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Tom Keats
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Posts: 3,193
Default I get 3 miles per banana, do you?

In article ,
ComandanteBanana writes:

Yes, it is easily possible to use more gas getting fruit from the store
to your house than it took to get it from the field to the produce
aisle. That this isn't an obvious result is a bit surprising to me: you
can't spend much on fuel when the fruit costs less than a dollar at
retail.


But you must remember, goods movement is highly
inter-modal. *Those watermelons going across the
Pacific Ocean have to be offloaded by motorized
cranes, and moved around by all kinds of motorized
vehicles before they ultimately end up in the
supermarket or green grocer's. *And then ports
generally have a bunch of security personnel,
supervisors and other staff driving around.
I think both moving a 5 ton SUV to the supermarket and shipping a
watermelon from foreign lands is wasteful, and directly responsible
for Climate Change, a stupid foreign policy in the Middle East, as
well as starving the local farmers, among other evils.


So you're against international trade. *I assume that
includes shipping North American goods, produce,
medical supplies, etc overseas.

No, I'm against Globalization when it means losing American jobs to
China or Mexico.


So am I, but international trade doesn't necessarily always
boil down to Corporate Globalism.

Besides, you're ranting against fossil-fueled vehicles
in general (the very things that bring your beloved
bananas to your local green grocer's) and how you get
3 miles per banana as opposed to burning fossil fuels,
not macro-economics.

You're overlooking how your bananas got to your
marketplace in the first place.

I hope they're Fair Trade bananas. But they'd still
need fossil-fueled vehicles to convey them to market.


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
  #37  
Old March 28th 09, 04:26 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Opus[_2_]
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Posts: 414
Default I get 3 miles per banana, do you?

On Mar 28, 1:41 am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
snip
You're overlooking how your bananas got to your
marketplace in the first place.

I hope they're Fair Trade bananas. But they'd still
need fossil-fueled vehicles to convey them to market.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca


That's why as much as possible we have to move the things that can
move themselves without fossil fuels so that things that can't move
themselves can be moved with burning something, fossil fuels, used
cooking oil, refried sewage, whatever it takes to keep things moving.

I can move myself without the use of fossil fuels, so I do. The more I
do so the more fossil fuels we have to move things like bananas until
we come up with a renewable fuels economy.

Opus
  #38  
Old March 28th 09, 05:49 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Tom Keats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,193
Default I get 3 miles per banana, do you?

In article ,
Opus writes:
On Mar 28, 1:41 am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
snip
You're overlooking how your bananas got to your
marketplace in the first place.

I hope they're Fair Trade bananas. But they'd still
need fossil-fueled vehicles to convey them to market.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca


That's why as much as possible we have to move the things that can
move themselves without fossil fuels so that things that can't move
themselves can be moved with burning something, fossil fuels, used
cooking oil, refried sewage, whatever it takes to keep things moving.

I can move myself without the use of fossil fuels, so I do. The more I
do so the more fossil fuels we have to move things like bananas until
we come up with a renewable fuels economy.


At last, I've found a like-minded person!

Well, I also care very much about our human impact on the
Environment, and our fellow humans. I'm sure you do, too.
Heh ... "impact."

Well, I guess humanity/society ~is~ an integral part of
the Environment.

I know people at work who will use a propane-powered
forklift to move a 10 lb box atop a 50 lb pallet across
a distance of 10 feet, although there are manual
pallet jacks strewn everywhere on the warehouse floor.
I guess that's pretty much like driving a car a block
down the street to buy a watermelon or a pack of Camels.

As a public transit user, I indeed do use fossil fuels
(diesel buses.) Being car-free isn't necessarily
fossil fuel-free, and as a life-long non-driver I'm
not about to delude myself.

Fossil fuels are a boon, when used responsibly and
reasonably. I just wish somebody knew where the
line between responsible/reasonable use and
irresponsible/unreasonable use lies. The preponderance
and ubiquity of Personally Owned Motor Vehicles only
serves to obfiscate that line. There are too many
cars, for stuff that actually gets done. Aside from
accidentally killing or maiming people.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca




  #39  
Old March 31st 09, 06:40 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Leo Lichtman[_2_]
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Posts: 255
Default I get 3 miles per banana, do you?


wrote: (clip) gear it
correctly so that it could maintain maximum rpm and maximum HP (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Just a little nit: Maximum HP does not occur at maximum RPM. Since HP is
the product of RPM x torque, and since torque peaks somewhere below max RPM,
the HP curve peaks somewhere between the two.


  #40  
Old March 31st 09, 06:45 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Leo Lichtman[_2_]
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Posts: 255
Default I get 3 miles per banana, do you?

From an environmental standpoint, is it better to ride your bike to the
store, eat a banana, and ride home, or to carry the banana home and then eat
it? ;-)


 




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