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bike route: sidewalk?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 3rd 05, 06:28 AM
brink
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Default bike route: sidewalk?

question:

i was in palm springs, CA this week and noticed what appeared to a sidewalk
marked as a bike route. no it wasn't a mixed use trail or a concrete
bikepath... it was quite clearly what we'd all recognize as and call a
sidewalk, immediately adjacent to a busy four-lane 45 MPH arterial road.

it was a little ambiguous but let me explain: it was typical "BIKE ROUTE"
green signage that seemed to indicate that the bike route was the sidewalk.
it didn't literally say "on sidewalk," but the signage was *on* the
sidewalk* designed to be read by someone pedaling (or walking) *against* the
flow of traffic. it was not positioned for drivers since it was way over on
the other side of the road--a southbound driver would see it way way over to
his left across three of four lanes of traffic.

palm springs has a large bike route circuit throughout the city but never
verified if it is indeed a sidewalk route. anyone know anything about the
palm springs bike route?

i know this seems a little paranoid but i can't easily shake that riding on
the sidewalk was "wrong"... ;-)

brink


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  #2  
Old October 3rd 05, 08:09 AM
Bill Henry
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Default bike route: sidewalk?

brink wrote:

i know this seems a little paranoid but i can't easily shake that riding on
the sidewalk was "wrong"... ;-)


Well, I think for certain areas, riding on the sidewalk is okay.

Many bridges, for example, have large walkways/sidewalks where
bicyclists are supposed to go and it is probably safer than trying to
squeeze them into a lane with a bunch of dazed drivers who are going
much faster.

This is the same reason I won't ride on the freeway - I'd be paranoid
about getting clipped by someone from behind.

As for basic riding on city streets, I'll ride with traffic then and not
feel uncomfortable.
  #3  
Old October 3rd 05, 02:43 PM
jj
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Default bike route: sidewalk?

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 22:28:32 -0700, "brink" wrote:

question:

i was in palm springs, CA this week and noticed what appeared to a sidewalk
marked as a bike route. no it wasn't a mixed use trail or a concrete
bikepath... it was quite clearly what we'd all recognize as and call a
sidewalk, immediately adjacent to a busy four-lane 45 MPH arterial road.

it was a little ambiguous but let me explain: it was typical "BIKE ROUTE"
green signage that seemed to indicate that the bike route was the sidewalk.
it didn't literally say "on sidewalk," but the signage was *on* the
sidewalk* designed to be read by someone pedaling (or walking) *against* the
flow of traffic. it was not positioned for drivers since it was way over on
the other side of the road--a southbound driver would see it way way over to
his left across three of four lanes of traffic.

palm springs has a large bike route circuit throughout the city but never
verified if it is indeed a sidewalk route. anyone know anything about the
palm springs bike route?

i know this seems a little paranoid but i can't easily shake that riding on
the sidewalk was "wrong"... ;-)

brink


They have this in Va Beach - almost double wide sidewalks marked up as bike
lanes but only one one side of the street.

The problem is, when you come back along the same route, you're riding
against traffic, and should you need to cross the street, it's problematic,
especially if the sidewalk/route borders a divided highway, again, because
the sidewalk/bike route is typically only on one side of the street.

You're left with trying to cross the street going against traffic or using
the crosswalk or some kludge. Doubt the 'planners' rode this route to
assess the utility of single side of the road double sidewalk riding.

-jj

  #4  
Old October 3rd 05, 03:12 PM
james
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Default bike route: sidewalk?

denver's cherry creek trail uses a sidewalk near the mall and denver
country club.

there is an option to go behind the mall, but i use the north side for
my needs.

it's definetely the most dangerous part, two mall exits with cars
lurching into crosswalks, a few bus stops with people milling about or
entering/exiting busses, and lots of general pedestrian traffic

but i just slow down and stay assertive

  #5  
Old October 3rd 05, 05:48 PM
andy gee
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Default bike route: sidewalk?

"brink" wrote in
:

question:

i was in palm springs, CA this week and noticed what appeared to a
sidewalk marked as a bike route. no it wasn't a mixed use trail or a
concrete bikepath... it was quite clearly what we'd all recognize as
and call a sidewalk, immediately adjacent to a busy four-lane 45 MPH
arterial road.


Thanks for confirming my sanity... I mentioned a similar thing about
Riverside previously. I guess CA does really have formal bike routes on
sidewalks, probably because so few people walk on them.

--ag
  #6  
Old October 3rd 05, 06:54 PM
brink
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Posts: n/a
Default bike route: sidewalk?


"andy gee" wrote in message
7.142...
"brink" wrote in
:

question:

i was in palm springs, CA this week and noticed what appeared to a
sidewalk marked as a bike route. no it wasn't a mixed use trail or a
concrete bikepath... it was quite clearly what we'd all recognize as
and call a sidewalk, immediately adjacent to a busy four-lane 45 MPH
arterial road.


Thanks for confirming my sanity... I mentioned a similar thing about
Riverside previously. I guess CA does really have formal bike routes on
sidewalks, probably because so few people walk on them.


i think that's it--these are fairly low-volume sidewalks for pedestrians.
didn't see many bikes for that matter. and with all the old folks cruising
around just this side of legal blindness, perhaps the city planners have
seen the wisdom of a policy of "keep em separated"... ;-)

once you get near downtown, where there are gobs of pedestrians milling
around, bicycles are explicitly prohibited on the sidewalks.

brink


  #7  
Old October 3rd 05, 08:48 PM
John
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Default bike route: sidewalk?


Matt O'Toole wrote:
But bikes
are generally prohibited from using sidewalks except where explicitly allowed --
thus the "bike route" sign.

Matt O.


Not quite, there is no STATE law in CA that prohibits anyone from
riding on sidewalks. Thus, leaving sidewalk laws up to local
municipalities. You have to check with your local authorities to see
what the ordinances are regarding sidewalks in your area. Some towns
ban all sidewalk riding some towns have some of both. See CA law click
here http://www.bikelink.com/law_safety.htm

Same with Florida. No STATE law against riding bicycles on sidewalks.
It's up to the local Govt. to make bicycle laws or there are none and
your free to ride wherever you want. See here
http://www.dot.state.fl.us/safety/pe..._bikeLaws1.htm

I use to obey all the laws until I just about got run over. Now I ride
wherever I feel like it's the safest. I figure I'd rather get a
ticket for riding a sidewalk then be half dead in the hospital because
I obeyed the law.

John

  #8  
Old October 3rd 05, 09:48 PM
jj
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Default bike route: sidewalk?

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:07:10 -0400, "Matt O'Toole"
wrote:

jj wrote:

They have this in Va Beach - almost double wide sidewalks marked up
as bike lanes but only one one side of the street.


The problem is, when you come back along the same route, you're riding
against traffic, and should you need to cross the street, it's
problematic, especially if the sidewalk/route borders a divided
highway, again, because the sidewalk/bike route is typically only on
one side of the street.


You're left with trying to cross the street going against traffic or
using the crosswalk or some kludge. Doubt the 'planners' rode this
route to assess the utility of single side of the road double
sidewalk riding.


These are an abomination. I wish we could get a state law passed banning them.

Matt O.


Yeah, because of the frequently hedge-shielded driveways it's one of the
more dangerous areas I've ridden and I just go out on the road now. Drivers
just don't expect you there.

On a similar note, I've had to hollar at several drivers lately. One lady
coming up a hill, gravel, similar to a driveway to my right to merge onto
my road and saw me coming, started to move out saw I continued riding by,
tried to edge out again, as though 'hey you're a bike you stop, me go'.
Fortunately she stopped when I hollared, but dammit if she wouldn't have
just watched herself drive into the side of me if I hadn't yelled.

Another driver is coming up behind me, down a long slow straightaway, and
I'm watching her in my mirror. She continues on a path to run me over,
surprisingly, and just as I'm about to dive for the hedgerows, she swerves
over, as though she was driving with eyes closed up until then.

Finally right in front of my house I'm getting ready to swing around and go
into my driveway and do a quick check mirror check and YIKES, a little red
car slowly and silently following me so closely it makes me jump to see
her. No danger of being hit, but crap who follows that closely, maybe three
feet off my rear wheel - and why!

A few feet further and she turns into her driveway one up from mine.
Dumbass.

jj

  #9  
Old October 3rd 05, 09:50 PM
Roger Zoul
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Posts: n/a
Default bike route: sidewalk?

jj wrote:
: On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:07:10 -0400, "Matt O'Toole"
: wrote:
:
:jj wrote:
:
: They have this in Va Beach - almost double wide sidewalks marked up
: as bike lanes but only one one side of the street.
:
: The problem is, when you come back along the same route, you're
: riding against traffic, and should you need to cross the street,
: it's
: problematic, especially if the sidewalk/route borders a divided
: highway, again, because the sidewalk/bike route is typically only
: on
: one side of the street.
:
: You're left with trying to cross the street going against traffic
: or
: using the crosswalk or some kludge. Doubt the 'planners' rode this
: route to assess the utility of single side of the road double
: sidewalk riding.
:
:These are an abomination. I wish we could get a state law passed
:banning them.
:
:Matt O.
:
: Yeah, because of the frequently hedge-shielded driveways it's one of
: the
: more dangerous areas I've ridden and I just go out on the road now.
: Drivers just don't expect you there.
:
: On a similar note, I've had to hollar at several drivers lately. One
: lady coming up a hill, gravel, similar to a driveway to my right to
: merge onto
: my road and saw me coming,

How do you know she saw you, jj? did you wave at her and see her wave back?

started to move out saw I continued
: riding by, tried to edge out again, as though 'hey you're a bike you
: stop, me go'. Fortunately she stopped when I hollared, but dammit if
: she wouldn't have
: just watched herself drive into the side of me if I hadn't yelled.
:
: Another driver is coming up behind me, down a long slow
: straightaway, and
: I'm watching her in my mirror. She continues on a path to run me
: over, surprisingly, and just as I'm about to dive for the hedgerows,
: she swerves over, as though she was driving with eyes closed up
: until then.

Maybe she didn't see you. You still wearing black?

:
: Finally right in front of my house I'm getting ready to swing around
: and go into my driveway and do a quick check mirror check and YIKES,
: a little red
: car slowly and silently following me so closely it makes me jump to
: see
: her. No danger of being hit, but crap who follows that closely,
: maybe three feet off my rear wheel - and why!

Maybe she was spying your bums, man!

:
: A few feet further and she turns into her driveway one up from mine.
: Dumbass.

hmmm...... It really could have been a judgment call in her part, however
poor.


  #10  
Old October 3rd 05, 10:11 PM
Matt O'Toole
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Default bike route: sidewalk?

John wrote:

Matt O'Toole wrote:


But bikes
are generally prohibited from using sidewalks except where
explicitly allowed -- thus the "bike route" sign.


Not quite, there is no STATE law in CA that prohibits anyone from
riding on sidewalks. Thus, leaving sidewalk laws up to local
municipalities. You have to check with your local authorities to see
what the ordinances are regarding sidewalks in your area. Some towns
ban all sidewalk riding some towns have some of both. See CA law
click here http://www.bikelink.com/law_safety.htm


This is true, which is why I used the word "generally." And it is generally the
case.

Matt O.


 




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