square taper cranks - who's left making them?

Have these all gone the way of the dodo?

wrote:
Have these all gone the way of the dodo?


Well, Sugino comes to mind; good quality at a fair price.

There's still alot of Campy square taper stuff out there, too. And alot
of lower end, non-brand name stuff (e.g., some of the Nashbar branded
cranks).

IMO, square taper cranks will still be available long after Octalink
and ISIS have disappeared.

wrote:
Have these all gone the way of the dodo?

Sugino, still makes a nice crankset:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/cranx2.html

T.A. is still makes a square taper, expensive in the USA:
http://www.specialites-ta.com/produits/crank_gb.htm

I believe Zinn still makes customs:
'http://www.zinncycles.com/cranks.aspx

Tune Bigfoot:
http://store.prostores.com/servlet/s...s/Detail?no=21

Campy Xenon is still a square, probably some low end (OEM) Shimano
also. Other than that, I think it's limited to NOS and EBay.

I still have squares on all three of my bikes, Campy and old RaceFace
stuff. ISIS felt good, but BBs are trash. Never tried OctaLink, have
yet to try this external system.

-nate

Campy Xenon is still a square, probably some low end (OEM) Shimano
also. Other than that, I think it's limited to NOS and EBay.

For 2007 I think the Campagnolo triple cranksets are square taper.
Only the 135mm bcd and 112/110mm bcd, adn 110mm bcd cranks are the new
torque coupler thing in the middle of the bottom bracket shell. If a
triple frightens you, its easy to just not mount an inner ring and use
a double length bottom bracket. You would have to check if the forged
inner ring lugs clear the chainstay on the shorter bottom bracket. If
not, then they can be easily ground off. Thus making it a permanent
double crank. I've thought about doing this since the only Campagnolo
cranks I ever see with 42 inner rings are triples. Buy a triple and
get rid of the inner ring and lugs and you have a wonderful riding
53-42 double crankset.


I still have squares on all three of my bikes, Campy and old RaceFace
stuff.

Me too. Chorus double, Centaur triple, RaceFace Turbine LP 94mm bcd
only using the outer and middle positions for a micro compact, and
Deore DX triple.


ISIS felt good, but BBs are trash. Never tried OctaLink, have
yet to try this external system.

-nate

wrote:
Have these all gone the way of the dodo?

Most track tracks still seem to be square taper: Sugino, Stronglight,
TA, Miche, Campy...

wrote:
Have these all gone the way of the dodo?

I was wondering about that myself, as I just bought a set of FSA square
taper mountain bike cranks at LBS on Friday that are out of production.


White Industries makes beautiful singlespeed square taper cranks that I
have promised myself I will use on a bike at least once in my lifetime.

http://www.whiteind.com/ENO_Products/cranks.html

Shimano, Sugino and Campagnolo seem to be your other options. I am
using a set of the Shimano FC-M460 on a mountain bike that gets a lot
of riding, and they have been excellent. Not too expensive.

I agree with others, they are not going away completely. I'm planning
to stick to square taper on all my bikes.

Regards,
Anthony

http://www.whiteind.com/ENO_Products/cranks.html

Shimano, Sugino and Campagnolo seem to be your other options. I am
using a set of the Shimano FC-M460 on a mountain bike that gets a lot
of riding, and they have been excellent. Not too expensive.

I agree with others, they are not going away completely. I'm planning
to stick to square taper on all my bikes.

I am totally confused by the bike industry. Read my question on
head tubes. I just read that square taper is more efficient than
any of these crazy things such as external BB or ISIS by a huge
magnitude. Obviously Campy knew something. I've been trying to
read everything on this since my ISIS drive BB lasted only 2000
miles(yet another post).


--
---
William O'Hara
www.N1ey.com - Amateur Radio and Railfan Blog
www.yahoogroups.com/group/illinoiscentral - premier discussion list
ICRR

William O'Hara wrote:
http://www.whiteind.com/ENO_Products/cranks.html

Shimano, Sugino and Campagnolo seem to be your other options. I am
using a set of the Shimano FC-M460 on a mountain bike that gets a lot
of riding, and they have been excellent. Not too expensive.

I agree with others, they are not going away completely. I'm planning
to stick to square taper on all my bikes.

I am totally confused by the bike industry. Read my question on
head tubes. I just read that square taper is more efficient than
any of these crazy things such as external BB or ISIS by a huge
magnitude. Obviously Campy knew something. I've been trying to
read everything on this since my ISIS drive BB lasted only 2000
miles(yet another post).

Yes: http://www.topeak.com/2006/products/minipumps/roadmorphg.php.
The efficiency differences between bottom brackets with decent bearings
[1] must be minimal. The weight differences are also typically
negligible when related to real world performance

A larger diameter BB shell standard would be useful for some, as the
square taper is undersized from a durability (fatigue resistance)
perspective (both of the spindle and the attached cranks).

[1] I did have a cheap Shimano LP-37 go bad in the middle of a group
ride, and the increase in friction was enough that it made it hard to
keep up. When I removed the BB, I was not able to rotate the spindle
with my bare hands.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

William O'Hara writes:

http://www.whiteind.com/ENO_Products/cranks.html

Shimano, Sugino and Campagnolo seem to be your other options. I am
using a set of the Shimano FC-M460 on a mountain bike that gets a
lot of riding, and they have been excellent. Not too expensive.

I agree with others, they are not going away completely. I'm
planning to stick to square taper on all my bikes.

I am totally confused by the bike industry. Read my question on
head tubes. I just read that square taper is more efficient than
any of these crazy things such as external BB or ISIS by a huge
magnitude. Obviously Campy knew something. I've been trying to
read everything on this since my ISIS drive BB lasted only 2000
miles(yet another post).

I think you are using the wrong term to describe the crank/spindle
interface. There is no efficiency in that joint but rather reliability
and durability. You could say the cottered crank was ideal if you
ignore that it only worked well with steel cranks and that the
bearings were too small in diameter, and that it took skill to install
properly.

The square taper inherited the cottered crank spindle, ball bearings
and cups and has been burdened with them ever since. Not only do the
spindles spall, the square taper is a mystery to most bicycle
mechanics. For this reason there is a division about assembly with
and without grease. Cranks have been split from excessive press fit
but how these came about seems to still mystifies the manufacturers,
having never themselves been able to reproduce such failures...
although to cause it is simple. As a rule they don't read wreck.bike
and seem not to know how.

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-001.html

picture 011 or the seventh picture. This was achieved by repeatedly
tightening the spindle bolt after use. It did not require grease. A
spindle bolt will break before damaging force can occur on the crank.

The ISIS method fails on several fronts and doesn't address the
bearing problem, using the same old cottered crank spindle diameter
and bearing cups. Besides, the spline is difficult to manufactured
and solves a non existent problem.

Shimano built the Octalink that has had a backlash flaw since its
beginning. Shimano didn't understand that and came out with a second
version with deeper splines that had the same failing as the first.

The current state of the art is the overhung bearing and no pressed on
cranks. Shimano using the pinch bolt design on a spline at the left
crank, and Campagnolo meshing a hollow spindle with a saw toothed
spline in the center. Both of these solve the torque and force
problem, although the Shimano method is simpler and less expensive.

What they don't do is address the BB thread forces that have required
a left hand thread or extreme torque to not unscrew. The left hand
thread is proof that the threads move or the thread direction would
make no difference. The bearing cups are supplied with Loctite type
thread retention, which does not work with such high loads. This is
the current weak spot and we will have to wait and see how they work.

Jobst Brandt

wrote in news:45203fd8$0$34502
:

The square taper inherited the cottered crank spindle, ball bearings
and cups and has been burdened with them ever since. Not only do the
spindles spall, the square taper is a mystery to most bicycle
mechanics. For this reason there is a division about assembly with
and without grease. Cranks have been split from excessive press fit
but how these came about seems to still mystifies the manufacturers,
having never themselves been able to reproduce such failures...
although to cause it is simple. As a rule they don't read wreck.bike
and seem not to know how.

The link had several items were there were breaks at the interface of
the crankset and the BB. Most were failures of the metal in the crank
in areas unrelated to the discussion.

The #'s being touted by some suggest that drag in the traditional BB
as you describe is vastly LESS than the ISIS drive BB. These also
last much longer than ISIS. My personal opinion is very poor in regards
to the durability of the FSA ISIS bb since it only lasted me 2k in mileage.
I had a shimano BB that didn't last too longer either, but I forgot that
only until just now.

I am probably going to head for the external BB in my new bike. I have
several strong inclinations for frame right now.

--
---
William O'Hara
www.N1ey.com - Amateur Radio and Railfan Blog
www.yahoogroups.com/group/illinoiscentral - premier discussion list
ICRR