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  #181  
Old October 30th 20, 10:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default {Politics so we don't have to change the subject.

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 2:00:06 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/30/2020 12:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 6:33:14 AM UTC-4, Eric Pozharski wrote:
with Frank Krygowski wrote:

It might be more effective to have a convicted perp kept alive but
"legally" dead, with absolutely no chance t anfor appeal based on anything
but (say) new DNA evidence. That is, no appeal because the judge used
the wrong word, the jury didn't have lunch, the witness may have seen
something on TV, etc.
It is this way (effectevely) already, isn't it?


I don't think so. We have a local case where a guy was convicted of raping and murdering a pre-teen boy.
His defense lawyers are still mounting appeals over 20 years later. And I think this matters because perps
think "If I get caught, I can get off on some technicality. And if I get convicted, I can try endless appeals and
I might get lucky and get out."

I don't know, but I suspect some of the death penalty defense attorneys are drawn to that job by moral
objections to execution. If the perp didn't face execution, but instead absolutely guaranteed sequestration,
there might be less chance of release. (Admittedly, this is just my idea. I'm not an expert at all.)

And have the perp kept in visibly miserable conditions - boring as
hell, uncomfortable, visually ugly. And filmed and broadcast to the
public for constant viewing in juvenile justice centers, city jails,
YouTube channels, etc.
That would be torture. How people jump from being The White Knight And
Stuff to torture is beyond my understanding.


Being bored, uncomfortable and in ugly surroundings is torture?? Hell, for a lot of people that's just "work."

- Frank Krygowski

Then there's 'death by unintended consequences':

https://nypost.com/2020/02/05/man-wh...rs-found-dead/

'Reform' sounds great to people who have not thought deeply
about why we have what we have now.


Releasing witnesses names to defendants accused of violent crimes? How is that a good idea?

- Frank Krygowski
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  #182  
Old October 30th 20, 10:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default {Politics so we don't have to change the subject.

On 10/30/2020 4:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 2:00:06 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/30/2020 12:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 6:33:14 AM UTC-4, Eric Pozharski wrote:
with Frank Krygowski wrote:

It might be more effective to have a convicted perp kept alive but
"legally" dead, with absolutely no chance t anfor appeal based on anything
but (say) new DNA evidence. That is, no appeal because the judge used
the wrong word, the jury didn't have lunch, the witness may have seen
something on TV, etc.
It is this way (effectevely) already, isn't it?

I don't think so. We have a local case where a guy was convicted of raping and murdering a pre-teen boy.
His defense lawyers are still mounting appeals over 20 years later. And I think this matters because perps
think "If I get caught, I can get off on some technicality. And if I get convicted, I can try endless appeals and
I might get lucky and get out."

I don't know, but I suspect some of the death penalty defense attorneys are drawn to that job by moral
objections to execution. If the perp didn't face execution, but instead absolutely guaranteed sequestration,
there might be less chance of release. (Admittedly, this is just my idea. I'm not an expert at all.)

And have the perp kept in visibly miserable conditions - boring as
hell, uncomfortable, visually ugly. And filmed and broadcast to the
public for constant viewing in juvenile justice centers, city jails,
YouTube channels, etc.
That would be torture. How people jump from being The White Knight And
Stuff to torture is beyond my understanding.

Being bored, uncomfortable and in ugly surroundings is torture?? Hell, for a lot of people that's just "work."

- Frank Krygowski

Then there's 'death by unintended consequences':

https://nypost.com/2020/02/05/man-wh...rs-found-dead/

'Reform' sounds great to people who have not thought deeply
about why we have what we have now.


Releasing witnesses names to defendants accused of violent crimes? How is that a good idea?

- Frank Krygowski


It was Mr Cuomo's idea. He has never had a good idea.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #183  
Old October 30th 20, 11:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default {Politics so we don't have to change the subject.

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 2:27:10 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:

It was Mr Cuomo's idea. He has never had a good idea.


He's never had a good thought.
  #184  
Old October 30th 20, 11:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default {Politics so we don't have to change the subject.

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 12:31:20 +0200, Eric Pozharski
wrote:

with Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/28/2020 10:27 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 21:45:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/28/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 20:05:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/28/2020 4:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/28/2020 12:31 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/28/2020 9:35 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/27/2020 10:21 PM, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 08:37:34 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:27:56 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 10:01:53 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


*SKIP*
I don't. Any stupid punk or heinously evil pervert who hears of the
execution will not be moved. They will have forgotten the original
crime, and/or they will think "I'm smarter, I'd get away with it."


That's something I can't disagree with. However, how it connects with
what's below is beyond my understanding.

It might be more effective to have a convicted perp kept alive but
"legally" dead, with absolutely no chance for appeal based on anything
but (say) new DNA evidence. That is, no appeal because the judge used
the wrong word, the jury didn't have lunch, the witness may have seen
something on TV, etc.


It is this way (effectevely) already, isn't it?

And have the perp kept in visibly miserable conditions - boring as
hell, uncomfortable, visually ugly. And filmed and broadcast to the
public for constant viewing in juvenile justice centers, city jails,
YouTube channels, etc.


That would be torture. How people jump from being The White Knight And
Stuff to torture is beyond my understanding.

*CUT*


Well, the Good Book says, "do to others as you would have them do to
you", so tell us, what is the appropriate punishment for someone that
rapes and strangles some 70 year old grandmother and steals her social
security check?
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #185  
Old October 30th 20, 11:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default {Politics so we don't have to change the subject.

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 3:32:02 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Well, the Good Book says, "do to others as you would have them do to
you", so tell us, what is the appropriate punishment for someone that
rapes and strangles some 70 year old grandmother and steals her social
security check?


The actual verse is Luke 6:31 - And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. So you have that exactly backwards. You do not kill people lest you would like to be killed. Proverbs 24:29 Do not say, “I will do to him as he has done to me; I will pay the man back for what he has done.”

Romans 12:17-21 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Personally I do not consider punching someone in the nose for slights to be evil. I consider it teaching a lesson that they never learned in church.
  #186  
Old October 31st 20, 03:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Eric Pozharski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default {Politics so we don't have to change the subject.

with John B wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 12:31:20 +0200, Eric Pozharski
wrote:
with Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/28/2020 10:27 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 21:45:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/28/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 20:05:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/28/2020 4:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/28/2020 12:31 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/28/2020 9:35 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/27/2020 10:21 PM, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 08:37:34 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:27:56 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 10:01:53 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


I don't. Any stupid punk or heinously evil pervert who hears of the
execution will not be moved. They will have forgotten the original
crime, and/or they will think "I'm smarter, I'd get away with it."

That's something I can't disagree with. However, how it connects
with what's below is beyond my understanding.
It might be more effective to have a convicted perp kept alive but
"legally" dead, with absolutely no chance for appeal based on
anything but (say) new DNA evidence. That is, no appeal because the
judge used the wrong word, the jury didn't have lunch, the witness
may have seen something on TV, etc.

It is this way (effectevely) already, isn't it?
And have the perp kept in visibly miserable conditions - boring as
hell, uncomfortable, visually ugly. And filmed and broadcast to the
public for constant viewing in juvenile justice centers, city jails,
YouTube channels, etc.

That would be torture. How people jump from being The White Knight
And Stuff to torture is beyond my understanding.

Well, the Good Book says, "do to others as you would have them do to
you", so tell us, what is the appropriate punishment for someone that
rapes and strangles some 70 year old grandmother and steals her social
security check?


Well, if you bring in The Book then you fish for consequences. The Book
is huge (like *HUGE* huge, probably written in Texas or something; and
I've read it all; I just don't know which exactly) and there is any
sort of crazy staff. Anyway, may I remind you that The Book also
teaches forgiveness, doesn't it?

Still, I don't understand why it must be torture.

Here comes PSA. Can anyone (in sane mind and layman terms) explain to
me, how last part of the quote is connected with the rest? Noone can.
Thus what we have here is clear example of Goal Post Moving. Now,
wouldn't it be easier (to move goal post) if arguments (now to be
avoided) would be stripped? Instead you bring in walls of text.

--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom
 




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