60th Anniversary Schwinn titanium price

I have a friend who is looking at a used bike to buy. Maybe. I am trying to figure out if the price is good or bad. Its a Very good looking, well maintained 1998 60th Anniversary Schwinn Paramount titanium built by Serotta.. I think its 1998 but maybe its 1999 or 2000 since Schwinn made the 60th Anniversary bikes for 3 or 4 years. Titanium Serotta frame and Time carbon fork. Painted blue. Campagnolo Super Record 11 speed mechanical. Campagnolo Zonda clincher wheels and Continental tires. Carbon Record seatpost. Selle Italia saddle. Cinelli aluminum threadless stem. Handlebars of some kind. Size being sold is perfect fit for my friend.

I am not sure of what age the 11 speed Super Record is. Not sure that really matters too much since Campagnolo is now onto 12 speed and I doubt there was any change during the 11 speed run. Everything looks brand new. But its not. It is used of course.

20 year old Serotta titanium frames with carbon Time fork. I know Serotta is famous but I don't know how much 20 year old titanium Serottas are worth.. And ideas? And then add in the slightly old, used Super Record 11 speed mechanical shifting, and cheaper Zonda wheels. Value?

What is a 20 year old Serotta titanium frame/fork worth? Its not brushed titanium with the Serotta name on it. Its painted pretty blue and has Schwinn on the frame. Friend cannot buy just the frame/fork alone. He has to buy everything as a package. In this case that actually might be bad luck.

On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 4:18:29 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I have a friend who is looking at a used bike to buy. Maybe. I am trying to figure out if the price is good or bad. Its a Very good looking, well maintained 1998 60th Anniversary Schwinn Paramount titanium built by Serotta. I think its 1998 but maybe its 1999 or 2000 since Schwinn made the 60th Anniversary bikes for 3 or 4 years. Titanium Serotta frame and Time carbon fork. Painted blue. Campagnolo Super Record 11 speed mechanical. Campagnolo Zonda clincher wheels and Continental tires. Carbon Record seatpost. Selle Italia saddle. Cinelli aluminum threadless stem. Handlebars of some kind. Size being sold is perfect fit for my friend.

I am not sure of what age the 11 speed Super Record is. Not sure that really matters too much since Campagnolo is now onto 12 speed and I doubt there was any change during the 11 speed run. Everything looks brand new. But its not. It is used of course.

20 year old Serotta titanium frames with carbon Time fork. I know Serotta is famous but I don't know how much 20 year old titanium Serottas are worth. And ideas? And then add in the slightly old, used Super Record 11 speed mechanical shifting, and cheaper Zonda wheels. Value?

What is a 20 year old Serotta titanium frame/fork worth? Its not brushed titanium with the Serotta name on it. Its painted pretty blue and has Schwinn on the frame. Friend cannot buy just the frame/fork alone. He has to buy everything as a package. In this case that actually might be bad luck.

FYI: https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...ramount.27828/

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 6:43:28 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
FYI: https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...ramount.27828/

-- Jay Beattie.

Thanks. I had not seen that thread yet. Learned some more specific information pertaining to Serotta and this frame.

On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 5:57:33 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 6:43:28 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
FYI: https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...ramount.27828/

-- Jay Beattie.
Thanks. I had not seen that thread yet. Learned some more specific information pertaining to Serotta and this frame.
As far as I've been able to determine, titanium bike literally live forever. If there are no failures due to workmanship errors in the first several months they are fine and since titanium has no fatigue life, they just go on forever.

On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 5:57:33 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 6:43:28 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
FYI: https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...ramount.27828/

-- Jay Beattie.
Thanks. I had not seen that thread yet. Learned some more specific information pertaining to Serotta and this frame.
As far as I've been able to determine, titanium bike literally live forever. If there are no failures due to workmanship errors in the first several months they are fine and since titanium has no fatigue life, they just go on forever.

Well, that's wrong. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/...tigue_test.htm
https://tinyurl.com/443a4p97

You'll particularly like this one, being that you were shopping for Ti forks: http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/s...ork-gerrys.jpg

All materials have a fatigue life, including Ti.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 14:59:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 5:57:33 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 6:43:28 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
FYI: https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...ramount.27828/

-- Jay Beattie.
Thanks. I had not seen that thread yet. Learned some more specific information pertaining to Serotta and this frame.
As far as I've been able to determine, titanium bike literally live forever. If there are no failures due to workmanship errors in the first several months they are fine and since titanium has no fatigue life, they just go on forever.

"since titanium has no fatigue life"? Where do you get these wild
ideas? Titanium, just as any other metal. does have fatigue limits as
even a cursory look at the literature would show. Google it and you
get something like 3 million hits.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/27/2021 6:37 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 5:57:33 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 6:43:28 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
FYI: https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...ramount.27828/

-- Jay Beattie.
Thanks. I had not seen that thread yet. Learned some more specific information pertaining to Serotta and this frame.
As far as I've been able to determine, titanium bike literally live forever. If there are no failures due to workmanship errors in the first several months they are fine and since titanium has no fatigue life, they just go on forever.

Well, that's wrong. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/...tigue_test.htm
https://tinyurl.com/443a4p97

You'll particularly like this one, being that you were shopping for Ti forks: http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/s...ork-gerrys.jpg

All materials have a fatigue life, including Ti.

Not true, although there's some mixing of terms going on.

What you and Tom are talking about is called the "Fatigue Limit" or
"Endurance Limit." For materials that have such a thing, it's a level of
(repeated) stress below which fatigue will not occur. So _if_ a part is
designed (heavy enough) so that fatigue stresses stay below that limit,
fatigue is not expected to occur.

But keep in mind, if the part is designed light enough, repeated
stresses can exceed that limit. So even metals with a definite fatigue
limit can fatigue. My prime example was the Reynolds 531 forks on our
tandem - track gage instead of tandem gage.

Some titanium alloys do have fatigue (or endurance) limits, but I don't
know if all of them do.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/27/2021 4:59 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 5:57:33 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 6:43:28 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
FYI: https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...ramount.27828/

-- Jay Beattie.
Thanks. I had not seen that thread yet. Learned some more specific information pertaining to Serotta and this frame.
As far as I've been able to determine, titanium bike literally live forever. If there are no failures due to workmanship errors in the first several months they are fine and since titanium has no fatigue life, they just go on forever.


I have an assortment of breaker tube (wrench extender) from
broken Ti frames. And we have sent another dozen to metal
recycling.

Very expensive titanium handcycle for a cripple:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/hand14.html
Note multiple cracks. Mo

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bicycle+ti...es&ia=image s

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 4:05:45 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/27/2021 6:37 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 5:57:33 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 6:43:28 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
FYI: https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...ramount.27828/

-- Jay Beattie.
Thanks. I had not seen that thread yet. Learned some more specific information pertaining to Serotta and this frame.
As far as I've been able to determine, titanium bike literally live forever. If there are no failures due to workmanship errors in the first several months they are fine and since titanium has no fatigue life, they just go on forever.

Well, that's wrong. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/...tigue_test.htm
https://tinyurl.com/443a4p97

You'll particularly like this one, being that you were shopping for Ti forks: http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/s...ork-gerrys.jpg

All materials have a fatigue life, including Ti.
Not true, although there's some mixing of terms going on.

What you and Tom are talking about is called the "Fatigue Limit" or
"Endurance Limit." For materials that have such a thing, it's a level of
(repeated) stress below which fatigue will not occur. So _if_ a part is
designed (heavy enough) so that fatigue stresses stay below that limit,
fatigue is not expected to occur.

But keep in mind, if the part is designed light enough, repeated
stresses can exceed that limit. So even metals with a definite fatigue
limit can fatigue. My prime example was the Reynolds 531 forks on our
tandem - track gage instead of tandem gage.

Some titanium alloys do have fatigue (or endurance) limits, but I don't
know if all of them do.

Thank you Frank. Jay should believe a mechanical engineer if not me. He wouldn't believe me if I said that the Sun will come up tomorrow.

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 7:22:07 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/27/2021 4:59 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 5:57:33 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 6:43:28 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
FYI: https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...ramount.27828/

-- Jay Beattie.
Thanks. I had not seen that thread yet. Learned some more specific information pertaining to Serotta and this frame.
As far as I've been able to determine, titanium bike literally live forever. If there are no failures due to workmanship errors in the first several months they are fine and since titanium has no fatigue life, they just go on forever.

I have an assortment of breaker tube (wrench extender) from
broken Ti frames. And we have sent another dozen to metal
recycling.

Very expensive titanium handcycle for a cripple:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/hand14.html
Note multiple cracks. Mo

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bicycle+ti...es&ia=image s
Titanium is particularly difficult to weld. Virtually all titanium failures are at or very near welded joints. The SLIGHTEST O2 in the area being heated will cause TiO2 to form which has the strength of a saltine cracker. I'm not sure but I think that even N2 can react with it as well. And often it is invisible because it is on the inside of the tube. ANY dirt, oil or anything else that can shield the atmosphere around the weld from 99.999% argon can form inclusions. So the early titanium frames had inclusions that could cause breakage. Even in new frames you have to continue to inspect them for weeks after you begin riding. I think I told you the story of a guy I was riding with bought a new Lynsky. I saw a cracked head tube from 3 feet away. He was rather put off but Lynsky knows that absolute cleanliness isn't possible in closed tubing and so simply replaced it without comment. This guy is a very careful assembler and put the bike together. Just the pressure of the headset over a couple of days cause the headtube failure. The new frameset has had 10,000 miles put on it and no problems.

Aluminum must have care taken with the welds as well but nothing like titanium