"But I was indicating!"

JNugent writes:

the correct procedure when being overtaken -
according to the HC - is to allow the overtaking vehicle to pull back
left in front of you - even slowing down to allow it to do so if that
is necessary.

"If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and
speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass."

If the cyclist was doing 20mph on the flat (a reasonable assumption)
then a motorist overtaking in the second lane of a dual carriageway
has 10mph speed difference to play with and should have no difficulty
at all in completing the manoeuvre and pulling back into the left lane
safely and without needing the cyclist to slow down. Given which,
"maintain a steady course and speed" is the advice and is what I see
in the clip

There's nothing in the Code about shouting abusively at
(female) drivers who overtake instead of slowing down.

There's nothing in the video clip about shouting at drivers of either
sex when they overtake. I hear a short burst of horn when she stops
opposite the turning and it becomes apparent to the cyclist that she
might be about to do something silly, then a rather longer one as
she's actually turning. I don't hear any shouting until she's more or
less finished the turn


-dan

If there's one thing worse than a trolling ****wit it's a
nym-shifting trolling ****wit.

* plonk *

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:10:31 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

If there's one thing worse than a trolling ****wit it's a
nym-shifting trolling ****wit.

* plonk *

Guy


Hello - Guy - I trust you're not suggesting this is anything to do
with me?

--

if you're going to make snide insinuations about the author,
as you undoubtedly did, then you can **** right off. (Guy Chapman)

Squashme wrote:
On 23 Aug, 18:27, JNugent wrote:
Squashmewrote:
JNugent wrote:
Marc wrote:
judith wrote:
(Roger Merriman) wrote:
snip
i suspect it's a lot closer than you think, look how far his feet apear
to be. probably under a foot, from the rear of the car, she's only just
ahead when she trys to make the turn.
She passes him and clearly indicates to turn left.
He makes no effort to ease off his speed -
You're not a cyclist are you?
Delta V is easy in a car, just press a pedal; it's not quite so easy on
a bike.
"Delta V"?
No explanatio of that one. ;-(





Whilst not excusing those that cycle through red lights it's a core
reason behind it. If you were a cyclist you would understand, if you
weren't a troll you would try to understand.
http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/stop.pdf
What have red lights to do with it?
Being you are what you are you probably won't bother looking at the
opinions of others, but it gives me a chance to let others know that the
opinions are there; you have now served your purpose for this thread and
can be ignored.
Whether the car driver was in the right or in the wrong (which isn't
worth debating), the correct procedure when being overtaken - according
to the HC - is to allow the overtaking vehicle to pull back left in
front of you - even slowing down to allow it to do so if that is
necessary. There's nothing in the Code about shouting abusively at
(female) drivers who overtake instead of slowing down.
So it "isn't worth debating" but you go ahead and argue in favour of
the motorist. Devious.
At tht stage, the motorist had become the victim.

In mortal danger, no doubt.

I wonder whether he'd have tried to do it to a Tyke tattooed lorry
driver built like a brick outhouse?

I wonder whether the motorist'd have tried to do it to a Tyke tattooed
lorry driver built like a brick outhouse?

I wonder whether you realise that you are just reinforcing the
perception of the roads as a hierarchy of bullies? I do not believe
that this is what you want them to be.

Absolutely correct.

But in this case, I observe what I see.

Daniel Barlow wrote:

JNugent writes:

the correct procedure when being overtaken -
according to the HC - is to allow the overtaking vehicle to pull back
left in front of you - even slowing down to allow it to do so if that
is necessary.

"If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and
speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass."

If the cyclist was doing 20mph on the flat (a reasonable assumption)
then a motorist overtaking in the second lane of a dual carriageway
has 10mph speed difference to play with and should have no difficulty
at all in completing the manoeuvre and pulling back into the left lane
safely and without needing the cyclist to slow down. Given which,
"maintain a steady course and speed" is the advice and is what I see
in the clip

Yes - I have already said that I am not seeking to defend the driver.

There's nothing in the Code about shouting abusively at
(female) drivers who overtake instead of slowing down.

There's nothing in the video clip about shouting at drivers of either
sex when they overtake. I hear a short burst of horn when she stops
opposite the turning and it becomes apparent to the cyclist that she
might be about to do something silly, then a rather longer one as
she's actually turning. I don't hear any shouting until she's more or
less finished the turn

But he shouts abuse at her, and it is absolutely unnecessary. As for the
"short burst of horn" - why not just slow down - and be prepared to stop
if necessary?

On 23 Aug, 19:51, JNugent wrote:
Daniel Barlow wrote:
JNugent writes:
the correct procedure when being overtaken -
according to the HC - is to allow the overtaking vehicle to pull back
left in front of you - even slowing down to allow it to do so if that
is necessary.
"If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and
speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass."
If the cyclist was doing 20mph on the flat (a reasonable assumption)
then a motorist overtaking in the second lane of a dual carriageway
has 10mph speed difference to play with and should have no difficulty
at all in completing the manoeuvre and pulling back into the left lane
safely and without needing the cyclist to slow down. Given which,
"maintain a steady course and speed" is the advice and is what I see
in the clip

Yes - I have already said that I am not seeking to defend the driver.

There's nothing in the Code about shouting abusively at
(female) drivers who overtake instead of slowing down.
There's nothing in the video clip about shouting at drivers of either
sex when they overtake. I hear a short burst of horn when she stops
opposite the turning and it becomes apparent to the cyclist that she
might be about to do something silly, then a rather longer one as
she's actually turning. I don't hear any shouting until she's more or
less finished the turn

But he shouts abuse at her, and it is absolutely unnecessary.

How else is she to learn that her behaviour is unacceptable? A polite
note, a fax?

As for the
"short burst of horn" - why not just slow down - and be prepared to stop
if necessary?

I agree. Why did the motorist not slow down or even stop, instead of
manufacturing an unnecessary conflict?

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
Adam Lea wrote:

"JNugent" wrote:
Adam Lea wrote:
"JNugent" wrote in message
Daniel Barlow wrote:
JNugent writes:

Correct.
*Not normal*.

You say that like it's automatically a bad thing.
Do you read the Sun? Play the Lottery?

Neither thing (as I suspect you well know).
It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, abnormal (outside the
established norms of behaviour) to read a proper newspaper or no paper
at all - rather than The Sun or The Daily Mirror. Neither is it
anything other than completely normal to refrain from wasting money on
a lottery with hopeless odds which relies on hype rather than a
reasonable expectation of return.
But going round recording the daily business of others in public
places on videotape with a view to picking fights is *very* abnormal.

Who said the motivation is to pick fights?

If you want to play pedant over whether it is correct to call publishing
the details of victims on the internet "picking fights" or whether
confronting a (female) driver with oral abuse is "picking a fight",
please feel free to do so. I shall not join in.

I am not referring to this particular incident,

I was.

I was referring to your implication that *anyone* who cycles around with
a video recorder is abnormal and is out to pick fights.

That is a reasonable inference. It isn't normal. It is quite abnormal.

To quote you:
"...which may explain why he goes to the trouble of cycling around with a
video camera running - behaviour which is decidely not normal"
"*Not normal*."
"It is a strong indication of someone spoiling for a fight and determined
to find it."

I have considered videoing some of my rides, perhaps as a record of some
of my more scenic holiday rides, or perhaps looking to improve my city
cycling technique. I don't see what would be abnormal about that.

And for the purposes of this discussion, I don't suppose you will ever
admit that it is abnormal. No point in taking that any further.

I have occasionally taken video diaries of family holidays and hikes through
some of the more scenic areas of our country. Do you find this abnormal as
well?


But even if there were some artistic merit in exceptionally taking rolling
road videos of Snowdonia or Lake District passes, it's a bit hard to see
what aesthetic achievement might flow from routine recording of a London
commute.


For my purposes it would be to improve my cycling. It would not be primarily
to catch bad driving, as I see little of it on a day to day basis.

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
Squashme wrote:

JNugent wrote:
Marc wrote:
judith wrote:
(Roger Merriman) wrote:

snip

i suspect it's a lot closer than you think, look how far his feet
apear
to be. probably under a foot, from the rear of the car, she's only
just
ahead when she trys to make the turn.

She passes him and clearly indicates to turn left.
He makes no effort to ease off his speed -

You're not a cyclist are you?
Delta V is easy in a car, just press a pedal; it's not quite so easy on
a bike.

"Delta V"?

No explanatio of that one. ;-(


Delta V means a change in speed, in this case referring to getting back up
to speed after being forced by the driver to take evasive action.

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
Daniel Barlow wrote:

JNugent writes:

the correct procedure when being overtaken -
according to the HC - is to allow the overtaking vehicle to pull back
left in front of you - even slowing down to allow it to do so if that
is necessary.

"If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and
speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass."

If the cyclist was doing 20mph on the flat (a reasonable assumption)
then a motorist overtaking in the second lane of a dual carriageway
has 10mph speed difference to play with and should have no difficulty
at all in completing the manoeuvre and pulling back into the left lane
safely and without needing the cyclist to slow down. Given which,
"maintain a steady course and speed" is the advice and is what I see
in the clip

Yes - I have already said that I am not seeking to defend the driver.

There's nothing in the Code about shouting abusively at
(female) drivers who overtake instead of slowing down.

There's nothing in the video clip about shouting at drivers of either
sex when they overtake. I hear a short burst of horn when she stops
opposite the turning and it becomes apparent to the cyclist that she
might be about to do something silly, then a rather longer one as
she's actually turning. I don't hear any shouting until she's more or
less finished the turn

But he shouts abuse at her, and it is absolutely unnecessary.

This bit I would agree with.

As for the "short burst of horn" - why not just slow down - and be
prepared to stop if necessary?

Because it appears that the driver had forgotten that the cyclist was still
there, so the horn served as a warning to the driver that he was there,
which is what the horn is intended for.

HC rule 112:

"The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other
road users of your presence."

which is what the cyclist needed to do in this instance.

JNugent wrote:
Squashme wrote:

JNugent wrote:
Marc wrote:
judith wrote:
(Roger Merriman) wrote:

snip

i suspect it's a lot closer than you think, look how far his feet
apear
to be. probably under a foot, from the rear of the car, she's only
just
ahead when she trys to make the turn.

She passes him and clearly indicates to turn left.
He makes no effort to ease off his speed -

You're not a cyclist are you?
Delta V is easy in a car, just press a pedal; it's not quite so easy on
a bike.

"Delta V"?

Change of velocity