"But I was indicating!"

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:
"JNugent" wrote in message
...

He didn't create the drama, that's true. He merely created a potential
crisis out of it by not reacting properly (ie, slowing down or
stopping).

Have you actually seen the video in question? How can you possibly claim
he didn't slow down?

Of course I've seen it. He didn't slow down enough, given the situation,
It woukld have been better again to stop. I would stop in my car in that
situation - wouldn't you?

I would take what steps were necessary to avoid a crash, just like the
cyclist in the video did. I cannot say whether that would involve stopping
without actually trying it - but I would generally prefer to not stop.

You'll notice that the cyclist in question takes entirely adequate avoiding
action - why are you pretending he didn't?

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

"JNugent" wrote:

Actually, that's none of your business, or of his, unless he is a police
officer.

There is a role for the community to play in setting the bounds of what
is acceptable behaviour. The cyclist is part of that community.

So is absolutely everybody.

Does that mean it's OK for some other member of the community - perhaps a
community member who takes a rather dim view of cyclists - to deliver
"other messages" to the cyclist? Or is that completely different?

If the cyclist were to have screwed up in the way that the driver in the
video did, yes, of course I'd say it was ok. Running a red light, riding
down the pavement - you should be telling those people off, not just moaning
to yourself and the NGs but leaving it for the police to sort out. Shout
"Oi, red light" or "get off the pavement" or something like that. If lots of
people do it, the message will percolate through that it's not acceptable
behaviour. The behaviour of the cyclist in the video was a positive example
for you to follow, not denigrate.

(What sort of "other messages" were you thinking of? Random abuse? Obviously
yelling random abuse in the way that so many people do isn't acceptable -
but the actions in the video weren't random.)

It's important that the community does play their part, otherwise people
don't discover what is unacceptable until too late.

Not by the farthest stretch of the most vivid imagination was that cyclist
"the community". He acted alone. The rest of us were not on the grassy
knoll.

The cyclist is part of the community, same as you or me.

Clive George wrote:

"JNugent" wrote in message
Clive George wrote:
"JNugent" wrote in message

He didn't create the drama, that's true. He merely created a potential
crisis out of it by not reacting properly (ie, slowing down or
stopping).

Have you actually seen the video in question? How can you possibly claim
he didn't slow down?

Of course I've seen it. He didn't slow down enough, given the situation,
It woukld have been better again to stop. I would stop in my car in that
situation - wouldn't you?

I would take what steps were necessary to avoid a crash, just like the
cyclist in the video did. I cannot say whether that would involve stopping
without actually trying it - but I would generally prefer to not stop.

That isn't a good enough reason not to stop. Most of us don't want to
stop until we get to where we're going. But stop we sometimes must - and
for all sorts of reasons. Warning people not to get into our way isn't
really the answer.

You'll notice that the cyclist in question takes entirely adequate avoiding
action - why are you pretending he didn't?

Have you actually seen the video in question?

How can you possibly claim that he took entirely adequate avoiding
action when he was at first relying upon the driver not to cross his
path after his "warning" (hence the hoot)?

[NB: I have now lost the link to the video since the posts containing
the URL have aged off the drive.]

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

"JNugent" wrote in message
Clive George wrote:
"JNugent" wrote in message

He didn't create the drama, that's true. He merely created a potential
crisis out of it by not reacting properly (ie, slowing down or
stopping).

Have you actually seen the video in question? How can you possibly
claim he didn't slow down?

Of course I've seen it. He didn't slow down enough, given the situation,
It woukld have been better again to stop. I would stop in my car in that
situation - wouldn't you?

I would take what steps were necessary to avoid a crash, just like the
cyclist in the video did. I cannot say whether that would involve
stopping without actually trying it - but I would generally prefer to not
stop.

That isn't a good enough reason not to stop. Most of us don't want to stop
until we get to where we're going. But stop we sometimes must - and for
all sorts of reasons. Warning people not to get into our way isn't really
the answer.

Which bit of "taking what steps were necessary to avoid a crash" don't you
understand? If stopping isn't necessary, why do it?

You'll notice that the cyclist in question takes entirely adequate
avoiding action - why are you pretending he didn't?

Have you actually seen the video in question?

Yes - it appears that you haven't, or have forgotten what happened. Was
there a crash? No. Did the cyclist take sufficient action to avoid the
motorist performing a dangerous manoeuvre? Yes.

How can you possibly claim that he took entirely adequate avoiding action
when he was at first relying upon the driver not to cross his path after
his "warning" (hence the hoot)?

It's apparent that at no point was he relying on the driver to not cross his
path, since the driver did that and a crash did not result.

[NB: I have now lost the link to the video since the posts containing the
URL have aged off the drive.]

Google is your friend - or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GNEU5cil_E
will do.

Clive George wrote:

"JNugent" wrote:
Clive George wrote:
"JNugent" wrote:

Actually, that's none of your business, or of his, unless he is a police
officer.

There is a role for the community to play in setting the bounds of what
is acceptable behaviour. The cyclist is part of that community.

So is absolutely everybody.

Does that mean it's OK for some other member of the community - perhaps a
community member who takes a rather dim view of cyclists - to deliver
"other messages" to the cyclist? Or is that completely different?

If the cyclist were to have screwed up in the way that the driver in the
video did, yes, of course I'd say it was ok.

But these matters are completely subjective. What is an egregious
carve-up to one man is just a more or less expected several-times-daily
occurrence to many of us. Where do you draw a line before blowing a fuse?

Running a red light, riding
down the pavement - you should be telling those people off, not just moaning
to yourself and the NGs but leaving it for the police to sort out. Shout
"Oi, red light" or "get off the pavement" or something like that. If lots of
people do it, the message will percolate through that it's not acceptable
behaviour. The behaviour of the cyclist in the video was a positive example
for you to follow, not denigrate.

I take your point, but experience has shown me (and others, I suspect)
that doing that in the wrong way or to the wrong person can backfire -
even if done reasonably politely. TBH, IME, the cyclists who do those
particular things are flaky anti-social turds and their behaviour can be
mercurial when challenged.

It isn't up to me to enforce the law and protect me and my family - we
pay our whack of the police wage-bill for that.

(What sort of "other messages" were you thinking of? Random abuse? Obviously
yelling random abuse in the way that so many people do isn't acceptable -
but the actions in the video weren't random.)

I think they will have felt so to the driver. Females often feel
vulnerable as things are, without that.

It's important that the community does play their part, otherwise people
don't discover what is unacceptable until too late.

Not by the farthest stretch of the most vivid imagination was that cyclist
"the community". He acted alone. The rest of us were not on the grassy
knoll.

The cyclist is part of the community, same as you or me.

But not its representative. Far from that, in fact.

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

"JNugent" wrote:
Clive George wrote:
"JNugent" wrote:

Actually, that's none of your business, or of his, unless he is a
police officer.

There is a role for the community to play in setting the bounds of what
is acceptable behaviour. The cyclist is part of that community.

So is absolutely everybody.

Does that mean it's OK for some other member of the community - perhaps
a community member who takes a rather dim view of cyclists - to deliver
"other messages" to the cyclist? Or is that completely different?

If the cyclist were to have screwed up in the way that the driver in the
video did, yes, of course I'd say it was ok.

But these matters are completely subjective. What is an egregious carve-up
to one man is just a more or less expected several-times-daily occurrence
to many of us.

Your driving is that bad? :-)

Where do you draw a line before blowing a fuse?

The cyclist didn't blow a fuse. He didn't even take the opportunity to
confront the driver in person, despite the fact it would have been very easy
since they were stopping. He shouted one very minor phrase. Not even a
swear-word.

I take your point, but experience has shown me (and others, I suspect)
that doing that in the wrong way or to the wrong person can backfire -
even if done reasonably politely.

You need to pick your time and place, but it works fine - eg I've done it in
Liverpool near some pretty dodgy areas. Having a crowd will help.
Don't bother with being polite either - you need to be quick and to the
point.

TBH, IME, the cyclists who do those particular things are flaky
anti-social turds and their behaviour can be mercurial when challenged.

The most dangerous red-light jumping I ever saw in Cambridge was done by an
apparently respectable middle-class woman - hardly a flaky anti-social turd.

It isn't up to me to enforce the law and protect me and my family - we pay
our whack of the police wage-bill for that.

Dodge your responsibility, and you'll find the problem gets worse. If
everybody on a pavement told cyclists to not ride on it you'd see the amount
of pavement riding go down.

(What sort of "other messages" were you thinking of? Random abuse?
Obviously yelling random abuse in the way that so many people do isn't
acceptable - but the actions in the video weren't random.)

I think they will have felt so to the driver. Females often feel
vulnerable as things are, without that.

It wasn't anything like that bad.

It's important that the community does play their part, otherwise
people don't discover what is unacceptable until too late.

Not by the farthest stretch of the most vivid imagination was that
cyclist "the community". He acted alone. The rest of us were not on the
grassy knoll.

The cyclist is part of the community, same as you or me.

But not its representative. Far from that, in fact.

In this instance, he was.

JNugent wrote:

Roger Merriman wrote:

JNugent wrote:
The Real Doctor wrote:

... In this case, the cyclist simply seems to have got all upset
because a car /dared/ to overtake him. There's no question that the
driver didn't see him and he was not in danger at any point. He simply
seems to have been looking for an excuse to have a go at someone

...which may explain why he goes to the trouble of cycling around with a
video camera running - behaviour which is decidely not normal.

maybe, but that don't exuse the lady, who at the kindest misstimed that
manover. she attempted to turn even though his wheel was only just
behind her. not a very wise choice.

I am not trying and have not tried to excuse the driver - indeed, I make
no comment on the substance of the actual incident.

If he hadn't found fault with that, the cyclist would have found fault
with something and someone else.

not sure what you infere that from, unless he is some one you know? or
have watched before?

this doesn't mean he isn't like your suggesting but from the youtube, he
gets very nearly left hooked, and sounds his horn, and shouts, not
nessarlly unreasonble.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

On Aug 27, 5:01*pm, (Roger Merriman) wrote:
JNugent wrote:

If he hadn't found fault with that, the cyclist would have found fault
with something and someone else.

not sure what you infere that from, unless he is some one you know? or
have watched before?

this doesn't mean he isn't like your suggesting but from the youtube, he
gets very nearly left hooked, and sounds his horn, and shouts, not
nessarlly unreasonble.

JNugent has to denigrate the cyclist, as the alternative
interpretation - that this is a routine occurrence that any regular
cyclist will experience fairly regularly, although perhaps not
frequently - is too impalatable to him.

If the cyclist has no hard evidence, any complaint is just their word,
which is conveniently dismissed as an exaggeration or complete
fabrication. If the cyclist is one of the increasing number who are
taking regular video evidence of their experiences, they are a weird
nutter who is obviously just out to provoke people...(albeit in this
case by no means other than daring to ride a bicycle on a road).

James