funny things to do on a bike

"Eric S. Sande" wrote in message
...
We are the driving force behind Al Qaeda.

That's deep, Jobst. I have no argument with it other than to suggest
that we need to come to terms with our enemy and end the killing.


As a good first step, eradication of AQ would do.

Negotiation with "terrorists" is not our way.

And I'm not a spokesman for Ariel Sharon.

You will be aware that Al Qaeda offered negotiation with the EU after
the Madrid train station bombing, it was rejected.

It is possible that a dialogue could be established with these people.

That would be a good first step.


I disagree. Things are well beyond the negotiation phase. I feel that unless
the USA hears from Bin Laden personally (and on VIDEO, with a refutable
time/date reference) that they are willing to back down, this is going to be
played to its end.

Eric S. Sande writes:

We are the driving force behind Al Qaeda.

That's deep, Jobst. I have no argument with it other than to
suggest that we need to come to terms with our enemy and end the
killing.

Negotiation with "terrorists" is not our way.

This is not a negotiation situation. 9-11 was a response to the USA
financing of demeaning and humiliation of primarily Palestinians and
secondarily support of dictators like the Shah Pahlavi and Saddam
Hussein just as we supported Fulgencio Battista in Cuba and Trujillo
and Manuel Noriega in Panama and the assassination of Salvador Allende
to be replaced by Augusto Pinochet:

http://www.neravt.com/left/allende.htm
http://tinyurl.com/2np65

And I'm not a spokesman for Ariel Sharon.

I am not either but our enemies in the middle east know that Sharon is
nothing without support from Washington.

You will be aware that Al Qaeda offered negotiation with the EU after
the Madrid train station bombing, it was rejected.

What is there to negotiate? The USA needs to back of world domination
under the guise of liberating people from their government and
religion, when actually business interests are the driving force. In
Vietnam it was suspected offshore oil.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/vietnam.html

It is possible that a dialogue could be established with these people.
That would be a good first step.

You see what sort of dialog would ensue, considering the cover-up
about the prisoner treatment where "pfc guilty" is being brought to
trial. When a ship runs aground in port the captain is relieved of
duty. When this sort of interrogation occurs in prison, officers
fairly high in the chain of command are guilty along with the top man
who denies knowing anything about it. Liar liar pants on fire, is
about all people outside the USA can say. This is in face of
international Red Cross detailed reports.

The situation has reached a state that is difficult to recover. To me
it is apparent that the Bush administration cannot resolve the crisis
without admitting huge errors in judgment and diplomacy and lies that
got us into the situation. That alone means we must change leaders in
November if not sooner, but that still does not get us out of where we
are. There is no military solution. That should be clear to anyone
who can read history and project the course we are on.

We have dismantled the Iraqi military, police and other government
functions, and cannot turn the nation over to anyone to run it if we
pull out. What would follow is mayhem worse than what occurred after
the defeat of the army. There was destruction and looting in
magnitudes not seen even in WWII. This was allowed to occur by
Mr. Rumsfeld to "punish the Iraqis" as if they had a hand in the
causing anything that affected the USA.

I spent time in the US Army and the subject of civil order after
military victory was high priority. Highly important after defeating
an enemy force in cities was re-establishing to law and order. What
happened in Iraq is outlined in military texts in detail. If Rummy
says he didn't know or expect that, then he is unbelievably uneducated
or lying.

Jobst Brandt

Eric S. Sande writes:

We are the driving force behind Al Qaeda.

That's deep, Jobst. I have no argument with it other than to
suggest that we need to come to terms with our enemy and end the
killing.

Negotiation with "terrorists" is not our way.

This is not a negotiation situation. 9-11 was a response to the USA
financing of demeaning and humiliation of primarily Palestinians and
secondarily support of dictators like the Shah Pahlavi and Saddam
Hussein just as we supported Fulgencio Battista in Cuba and Trujillo
and Manuel Noriega in Panama and the assassination of Salvador Allende
to be replaced by Augusto Pinochet:

http://www.neravt.com/left/allende.htm
http://tinyurl.com/2np65

And I'm not a spokesman for Ariel Sharon.

I am not either but our enemies in the middle east know that Sharon is
nothing without support from Washington.

You will be aware that Al Qaeda offered negotiation with the EU after
the Madrid train station bombing, it was rejected.

What is there to negotiate? The USA needs to back of world domination
under the guise of liberating people from their government and
religion, when actually business interests are the driving force. In
Vietnam it was suspected offshore oil.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/vietnam.html

It is possible that a dialogue could be established with these people.
That would be a good first step.

You see what sort of dialog would ensue, considering the cover-up
about the prisoner treatment where "pfc guilty" is being brought to
trial. When a ship runs aground in port the captain is relieved of
duty. When this sort of interrogation occurs in prison, officers
fairly high in the chain of command are guilty along with the top man
who denies knowing anything about it. Liar liar pants on fire, is
about all people outside the USA can say. This is in face of
international Red Cross detailed reports.

The situation has reached a state that is difficult to recover. To me
it is apparent that the Bush administration cannot resolve the crisis
without admitting huge errors in judgment and diplomacy and lies that
got us into the situation. That alone means we must change leaders in
November if not sooner, but that still does not get us out of where we
are. There is no military solution. That should be clear to anyone
who can read history and project the course we are on.

We have dismantled the Iraqi military, police and other government
functions, and cannot turn the nation over to anyone to run it if we
pull out. What would follow is mayhem worse than what occurred after
the defeat of the army. There was destruction and looting in
magnitudes not seen even in WWII. This was allowed to occur by
Mr. Rumsfeld to "punish the Iraqis" as if they had a hand in the
causing anything that affected the USA.

I spent time in the US Army and the subject of civil order after
military victory was high priority. Highly important after defeating
an enemy force in cities was re-establishing to law and order. What
happened in Iraq is outlined in military texts in detail. If Rummy
says he didn't know or expect that, then he is unbelievably uneducated
or lying.

Jobst Brandt

The situation has reached a state that is difficult to recover.

No ****.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
in.edu__________

Recover what, exactly?

I think Jobst was alluding to terrorists in the same sense I was,
there wasn't any special reference implied.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
in.edu__________

In article ,
Baka Dasai writes:

The use of the word "sport" here seems to fall into the same trap that
is being complained about - the phony attempt to legitimate cycling as
something serious. Bicycling is not necessarily a sport - it can be
basic transport, or just a fun pastime.

Not necessarily /a/ sport, but maybe it inherently /is/ sport,
like wearing a favourite hat, or hanging around the harbour &
ship-spotting, or playing dominoes for nickels?

Come to think of it, I rather like the notion of cycling being
sport[ing] while it's busy being all the other things it is, too.


cheers,
Tom


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Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Recover what, exactly?

I think Jobst was alluding to terrorists in the same sense I was,
there wasn't any special reference implied.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
in.edu__________

In article ,
says...
Eric S. Sande writes:

We are the driving force behind Al Qaeda.

That's deep, Jobst. I have no argument with it other than to
suggest that we need to come to terms with our enemy and end the
killing.

Negotiation with "terrorists" is not our way.

This is not a negotiation situation. 9-11 was a response to the USA
financing of demeaning and humiliation of primarily Palestinians and
secondarily support of dictators like the Shah Pahlavi and Saddam

Actually, no. 9-11 was primarily because of the continued US military
presence in Saudi Arabia (at the request of the Saudi government, BTW).
The Palestinian issue was an after-the-fact add-on to OBL's
pronouncements.

.....

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

"Eric S. Sande" wrote:

You will be aware that Al Qaeda offered negotiation with the EU after
the Madrid train station bombing, it was rejected.

It is possible that a dialogue could be established with these people.

That would be a good first step.

Great idea. Teach the radical fringe elements of the world that if
they cause enough damage, we'll give them an inordinate amount of
power to influence our society.

There are only two ways to deal with the terrorists.

1) Kill them
2) End the brainwashing of the young terrorist candidates before they
are convinced that strapping explosives around their chests and going
for a bus ride is a good idea. The Arab media / leadership wants to
continue to blame the US and Israel for everything that's wrong with
their culture, when in fact the main problem is the Arab media /
leadership.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Eric S. Sande writes:

The situation has reached a state that is difficult to recover.

No ****.

The point is that no one has a plausible exit strategy and that we are
a lot worse off in world security now than before removal of Saddam
Hussein, not to mention the US economy. Print money!

Jobst Brandt