Rear Derailer Specs

On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 9:35:57 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/11/2016 11:07 PM, John B. wrote:

I am looking for a Shimano short cage rear derailer for a road bike.
Can I assume that any of the more recent short cage Shimano derailer's
will work successfully with a 11 - 25 cassette?

We have a lot of "swap meets" here and bike parts are noticeably
cheaper at these meets. Some of the stuff is new and some of the stuff
is used but generally speaking it is all serviceable so it is very
much a matter of finding something that suits you.

One of the problems is, wandering from table to table, it is awful
easy to find a while bunch of "good stuff" :-)


Short Shimano changers are rated for 27 teeth.

Andrew

I replaced my 9-speed rear der recently. I guess it was a 6500 from googling shimano 9speed. The mech at my LBS said "Do you want to get a new 9-speed derailer or a newer one?", and I smiled and remembered Sheldon "Derailers don't care", and said "doesn't matter, the difference is in the shifter, so may as well get the latest one."
He said "That's no longer true; the new ones are different" and then sold me an RD-6700. Which is working fine.

Is there anything worth adding here? I mean, I suspect that his words were bull****, and contradicting what he sold me, and that the RD-6700 is "11-speed", and the latest model, and a 6600 was what they sold with 10-speed, and all 3 are functionally equivalent, as they are to an RX100 7speed, among many others; are those statements correct?

It looks like it might be slightly larger than the 6500 but I haven't measured or held them side by side. But you didn't qualify your statement so it must apply to the current model.

Thank you

On 2016-12-13 13:10, Doug Landau wrote:
On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 9:35:57 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/11/2016 11:07 PM, John B. wrote:

I am looking for a Shimano short cage rear derailer for a road
bike. Can I assume that any of the more recent short cage Shimano
derailer's will work successfully with a 11 - 25 cassette?

We have a lot of "swap meets" here and bike parts are noticeably
cheaper at these meets. Some of the stuff is new and some of the
stuff is used but generally speaking it is all serviceable so it
is very much a matter of finding something that suits you.

One of the problems is, wandering from table to table, it is
awful easy to find a while bunch of "good stuff" :-)


Short Shimano changers are rated for 27 teeth.

Andrew

I replaced my 9-speed rear der recently. I guess it was a 6500 from
googling shimano 9speed. The mech at my LBS said "Do you want to get
a new 9-speed derailer or a newer one?", and I smiled and remembered
Sheldon "Derailers don't care", and said "doesn't matter, the
difference is in the shifter, so may as well get the latest one." He
said "That's no longer true; the new ones are different" and then
sold me an RD-6700. Which is working fine.

Is there anything worth adding here? I mean, I suspect that his
words were bull****, and contradicting what he sold me, and that the
RD-6700 is "11-speed", and the latest model, and a 6600 was what they
sold with 10-speed, and all 3 are functionally equivalent, as they
are to an RX100 7speed, among many others; are those statements
correct?

It looks like it might be slightly larger than the 6500 but I haven't
measured or held them side by side. But you didn't qualify your
statement so it must apply to the current model.


Your mech may have a point. If the index stretch versus that of the real
gears is different that would be a problem. A local MTB rider had that
issue. He bought a front derailer only to find out that with his shifter
it did not quite cover the require small to large range. Had to buy yet
another one that matched the shifter.

On my road bike it would not matter because it has Flintstonian shifters
without indexing.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 12/13/2016 3:10 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 9:35:57 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/11/2016 11:07 PM, John B. wrote:

I am looking for a Shimano short cage rear derailer for a road bike.
Can I assume that any of the more recent short cage Shimano derailer's
will work successfully with a 11 - 25 cassette?

We have a lot of "swap meets" here and bike parts are noticeably
cheaper at these meets. Some of the stuff is new and some of the stuff
is used but generally speaking it is all serviceable so it is very
much a matter of finding something that suits you.

One of the problems is, wandering from table to table, it is awful
easy to find a while bunch of "good stuff" :-)


Short Shimano changers are rated for 27 teeth.

Andrew

I replaced my 9-speed rear der recently. I guess it was a 6500 from googling shimano 9speed. The mech at my LBS said "Do you want to get a new 9-speed derailer or a newer one?", and I smiled and remembered Sheldon "Derailers don't care", and said "doesn't matter, the difference is in the shifter, so may as well get the latest one."
He said "That's no longer true; the new ones are different" and then sold me an RD-6700. Which is working fine.

Is there anything worth adding here? I mean, I suspect that his words were bull****, and contradicting what he sold me, and that the RD-6700 is "11-speed", and the latest model, and a 6600 was what they sold with 10-speed, and all 3 are functionally equivalent, as they are to an RX100 7speed, among many others; are those statements correct?

It looks like it might be slightly larger than the 6500 but I haven't measured or held them side by side. But you didn't qualify your statement so it must apply to the current model.


In some applications you'll need a longer low gear screw
(newer changer used with six or seven speed systems) and as
someone else noted above there are incompatible Shimano wide
range rear changer formats too but AFAIK you are correct
about Shimano road changers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 07:36:54 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-12-12 17:04, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 10:30:04 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-12-11 21:07, John B. wrote:

I am looking for a Shimano short cage rear derailer for a road bike.
Can I assume that any of the more recent short cage Shimano derailer's
will work successfully with a 11 - 25 cassette?


That's easy. My old Shimano 600 short-cage derailer even accepts 32T
after I moved the wheel forward a smidgen. Many people said it wouldn't
like anything beyond 28T which is too little for the our hills and my age.

What may be more important is what you have up front. Mine is 42/52 but
if you have a more extreme ratio or a third granny gear the rear
derailer has to pick up a lot more slack.

Yes, I know that but was interested in whether the top idles would
clear a 25 tooth cassette cog.


Assuming it won't be worse than on the old 600 series short-cage, that
easily cleared even a 28t on my road bike. 32t was a wild guess, I just
had that left over from a chopped cassette (to obtain all the other
sprockets at a more decent price than individually, the bike had a UG
hub before). Initially it had trouble clearing that but after moving the
axle forward about 1/4" it now works nicely. My bike has adjuster screws
for the axle position. Yesterday on the slog back up from the valley I
was tired and sure glad I had the 32t.


We have a lot of "swap meets" here and bike parts are noticeably
cheaper at these meets. Some of the stuff is new and some of the stuff
is used but generally speaking it is all serviceable so it is very
much a matter of finding something that suits you.


Oh how I wish we had those.

They used to have them in California. When I was living there someone
would rent a large parking space for a Sunday and than sub-lease
individual spaces for people to come and sell goods. Not specifically
Bicycle but a lot of bargains.

It was common enough that I gained the impression that some people
were making their living selling at these places.


We have some of those but far away from here. I don't go there though
because my impression was that many sold chintzy made-in-whatever stuff
that was specifically designed to be sold at such places. Where any kind
of warranty is totally elusive. Not much in terms of bike parts either.

When I lived in California the "swap meets" certainly sold some cheap
stuff but also some good stuff. A welding shop used to display really
nice "wrought iron" work. Window screens (or bars if you will) and
stuff like that. After looking at their work for some months I built a
wrought iron "room divider" that I installed in the living room.


One of the problems is, wandering from table to table, it is awful
easy to find a while bunch of "good stuff" :-)


Sounds like going through a food store without having eaten before.

Sort of :-)


When I go to a large hardware store, often by bike where I have some
time, I must force myself not to walk through the tool aisles.

After some years of "walking through tool sections" you will become
immune.... but your workshop will be full :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On 2016-12-13, Doug Landau wrote:

I replaced my 9-speed rear der recently. I guess it was a 6500
from googling shimano 9speed. The mech at my LBS said "Do you
want to get a new 9-speed derailer or a newer one?", and I smiled
and remembered Sheldon "Derailers don't care", and said "doesn't
matter, the difference is in the shifter, so may as well get the
latest one." He said "That's no longer true; the new ones are
different" and then sold me an RD-6700. Which is working fine.

Is there anything worth adding here? I mean, I suspect that
his words were bull****, and contradicting what he sold me, and
that the RD-6700 is "11-speed", and the latest model, and a 6600
was what they sold with 10-speed, and all 3 are functionally
equivalent, as they are to an RX100 7speed, among many others; are
those statements correct?

Not bull****. The RD-6800 is the 11-speed Ultegra model. It
requires more cable pull to move the derailer than previous series;
you'd need to pair 11-speed Shimano shifters with it.

RD-6700 (10sp), 6600 (10sp), 6500 (9sp) and all previous Shimano
derailers share the traditional Shimano cable pull, and are
generally interchangeable, as Sheldon said.

--
Gregory S. Sutter Mostly Harmless

http://zer0.org/~gsutter/

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 2:43:25 AM UTC-8, Gregory Sutter wrote:
On 2016-12-13, Doug Landau wrote:

I replaced my 9-speed rear der recently. I guess it was a 6500
from googling shimano 9speed. The mech at my LBS said "Do you
want to get a new 9-speed derailer or a newer one?", and I smiled
and remembered Sheldon "Derailers don't care", and said "doesn't
matter, the difference is in the shifter, so may as well get the
latest one." He said "That's no longer true; the new ones are
different" and then sold me an RD-6700. Which is working fine.

Is there anything worth adding here? I mean, I suspect that
his words were bull****, and contradicting what he sold me, and
that the RD-6700 is "11-speed", and the latest model, and a 6600
was what they sold with 10-speed, and all 3 are functionally
equivalent, as they are to an RX100 7speed, among many others; are
those statements correct?

Not bull****. The RD-6800 is the 11-speed Ultegra model. It
requires more cable pull to move the derailer than previous series;
you'd need to pair 11-speed Shimano shifters with it.

RD-6700 (10sp), 6600 (10sp), 6500 (9sp) and all previous Shimano
derailers share the traditional Shimano cable pull, and are
generally interchangeable, as Sheldon said.

--
Gregory S. Sutter Mostly Harmless

http://zer0.org/~gsutter/

I think that I noted above that the 11-speed road shifters and derailleurs are DIFFERENT RATIOS than previous lower speeds. Also the off-road components will only work with specifically compatible components.

Although Triple and Compact front derailleurs look the same they have different ratios and will not work interchangeably. The shifter=s however are the same.

Circa 2012 the off-road components would no longer work with Brifters.

On 2016-12-13 19:13, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 07:36:54 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-12-12 17:04, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 10:30:04 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-12-11 21:07, John B. wrote:


[...]


We have a lot of "swap meets" here and bike parts are noticeably
cheaper at these meets. Some of the stuff is new and some of the stuff
is used but generally speaking it is all serviceable so it is very
much a matter of finding something that suits you.


Oh how I wish we had those.

They used to have them in California. When I was living there someone
would rent a large parking space for a Sunday and than sub-lease
individual spaces for people to come and sell goods. Not specifically
Bicycle but a lot of bargains.

It was common enough that I gained the impression that some people
were making their living selling at these places.


We have some of those but far away from here. I don't go there though
because my impression was that many sold chintzy made-in-whatever stuff
that was specifically designed to be sold at such places. Where any kind
of warranty is totally elusive. Not much in terms of bike parts either.

When I lived in California the "swap meets" certainly sold some cheap
stuff but also some good stuff. A welding shop used to display really
nice "wrought iron" work. Window screens (or bars if you will) and
stuff like that. After looking at their work for some months I built a
wrought iron "room divider" that I installed in the living room.


For a little "Alcatraz feel"? :-)

ducking



One of the problems is, wandering from table to table, it is awful
easy to find a while bunch of "good stuff" :-)


Sounds like going through a food store without having eaten before.

Sort of :-)


When I go to a large hardware store, often by bike where I have some
time, I must force myself not to walk through the tool aisles.

After some years of "walking through tool sections" you will become
immune.... but your workshop will be full :-)


Not really. There is always that nice new electric tool that would allow
a lot more creativity. Or reduce the time for chores.

I just bought a hydraulic wood splitter with electric motor when it went
on sale for $230 at Harborfreight. Not that we would die without it but
it sure made splitting much faster and easier on my lower back. The
usual. A buddy said he saw this ad ... went online ... WHOA! ... must
have, must have.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/