Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 08:29:38 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 11/4/2019 1:43 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

I suspect that it may be because the bulk of the people heading into
downtown Bangkok in the morning work in offices or perhaps shops where
clean neat clothing would be the norm and that would be hard to do on
a bicycle in a tropical country. And, of course, both the subway and
the elevated are much faster than a bicycle would be.

Having gone to China numerous times over the past 32 years, the change
in commuting from bicycles to subways is amazing. There were buses 32
years ago, but they were slower than bicycling to work. There's some
resurgence in cycling thanks to the bike share bikes, but it's more for
"the first and last kilometer." People tend to not use their cars for
commuting in the big cities, but they all want a car for the weekends.

In Singapore all of the MRT (subway) stations in the housing districts
are inundated with parked bikes. As you say, the last mile home. The
business districts are generally near MRT stations so no bike is
required on that end.

In Bangkok there are a few that ride a bike to the station but, I
suspect because of the motorcycle taxies, far, far, fewer than
Singapore.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:31:06 -0800 (PST), pH wrote:

snip

Here's the link:

https://www.electricbike.com/tangent-ascent/

pH in Aptos

It's been awhile since I actually spent some time on the eleectricbike website, I guess I should go there and see what's new.....I'm not in any danger of wanting anything on there yet!

snip

Just read the review above.

I *hate* it when writers use the term "RPMs".
Really? Revolutions per Minutes? How many minutes? What's wrong with one minute?

Well," Look at ME! I'm making some great RPM", just doesn't sound
right :-) While I'm making some rpms or cutting some donuts does :-)

I am similarly annoyed when I see or hear "ATM machine" GAAAHHH!

My grammar-curmudgeonly-ness is showing again.

While I'm at it, I also hate the frequency with which I see people using "advocate for" in letters to the editor and news articles in general. Don't they (or their editors)know that the 'for' is already built into the word advocate!!??

Modern American English like "Oh it is 90 degrees out there!", "Hey
Man, cool."

Ultimately it will regress to "Ugg?", "Ugg!"


pH in Aptos

off-topic rant over
--
cheers,

John B.

On 11/4/2019 6:04 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 06:51:46 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at
high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of
no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn
out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as
well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth
balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum
batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i
could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to
thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon
gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian
company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the
flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot
pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but
a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation
might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same
laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no
throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the
motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone
who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire
trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat
on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank
rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will
do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for
E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used
as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we’re we’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain
their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.

Well, Trek sells the Rail 9.9 for $11,000 but they only come in two
colors, Trek Black and Viper Red. :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


Proper road bikes are Celeste:

http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/e-bike/aria-e-road/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more
efficient at high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They
were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow
would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric-
bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc.
there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making
inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just
moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I
priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and
$300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake
oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw
$5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an
Australian company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of
business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on
the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle
only, hot pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec
only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is
why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have
now adopted the same laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist
only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that
drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in
reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had
pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke
.He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on
crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes
will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a
LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region
was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but weÂ’re weÂ’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road-
bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to
maintain their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist
up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)

It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round
and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself.

Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and
making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you
do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah.

On Monday, 4 November 2019 21:52:15 UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more
efficient at high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They
were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow
would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric-
bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc.
there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making
inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just
moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I
priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and
$300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake
oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw
$5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an
Australian company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of
business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on
the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle
only, hot pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec
only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is
why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have
now adopted the same laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist
only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that
drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in
reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had
pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke
.He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals..

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on
crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes
will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a
LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region
was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we’re we’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road-
bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to
maintain their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist
up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)

It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round
and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself.

Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and
making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you
do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah.

I like my 1980s bicycles. the wheels go round, the bicycle goes forwards, the brakes will slow it or even stop it when I want them to, and I enjoy my rides.

Cheers

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:45:53 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/4/2019 6:04 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 06:51:46 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at
high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of
no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn
out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as
well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth
balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum
batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i
could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to
thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon
gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian
company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the
flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot
pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but
a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation
might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same
laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no
throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the
motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone
who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire
trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat
on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank
rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will
do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for
E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used
as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we’re we’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain
their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.

Well, Trek sells the Rail 9.9 for $11,000 but they only come in two
colors, Trek Black and Viper Red. :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


Proper road bikes are Celeste:

http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/e-bike/aria-e-road/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Pretty color.

AJ

On 11/4/2019 1:44 PM, pH wrote:
Stop me before I post again.....

Okay, last time, then I'm going outside.

Here are *26* kits that were around in 2014.
There was a TdF rider who was accused of using a motor assist some years back, wasn't there? Kit Number 10 in this list could have been the culprit if true.

pH in Aptos

https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kits/

I'm curious about how the Yellow Jersey bike shop is responding to this
ebike trend.

Andy?


--
- Frank Krygowski

John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:11:35 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at
high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of
no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn
out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as
well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth
balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum
batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i
could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to
thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon
gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian
company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the
flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot
pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but
a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation
might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same
laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no
throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the
motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone
who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire
trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat
on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank
rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will
do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for
E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used
as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we’re we’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain
their levels.

That goes to show how unrealistic some people are. Put an electric
motor on the bike and gee! I'm just as fast as I was when I was
twenty...

Why not put on a bigger motor and Lo! One would be even faster than
they were at 20 :-) Or maybe an even larger motor and set records :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



Who the **** said anything about being faster than when they were 20?

John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at
high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of
no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn
out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as
well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth
balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum
batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i
could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to
thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon
gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian
company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the
flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot
pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but
a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation
might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same
laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no
throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the
motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone
who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire
trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat
on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank
rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will
do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for
E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used
as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we’re we’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain
their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist up
to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



I think you confuse recreation and sport.

AMuzi wrote:
On 11/4/2019 6:04 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 06:51:46 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at
high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of
no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn
out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as
well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth
balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum
batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i
could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to
thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon
gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian
company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the
flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot
pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but
a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation
might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same
laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no
throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the
motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone
who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire
trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat
on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank
rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will
do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for
E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used
as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we’re we’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain
their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist up
to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.

Well, Trek sells the Rail 9.9 for $11,000 but they only come in two
colors, Trek Black and Viper Red. :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


Proper road bikes are Celeste:

http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/e-bike/aria-e-road/



+1