Power meter news

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 1:44:14 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 10:47:01 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 1:35:24 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 3:17:23 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 1:59:05 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:

SRAM beats both for 2019 pro group volume worldwide.


Really? More Force gruppos than Ultegra? Hard to believe if I look around here.

Lou

Clarification- I may have misunderstood my SRAM management
source last week. SRAM sold more _electronic shift control_
groups than Shimano and way more than Campagnolo EPS.
--
Andrew Muzi


Campagnolo being in third place and not even in sight of the others is more than believable. But with electronic only, I find it hard to believe SRAM outsells Shimano. I have not looked at the recent or current catalogs, but does Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, Giant even offer a SRAM electronic bike direct from the factory? I think those brands are the biggest bike sellers in the USA. Do any of them offer SRAM electronic? I am positive all of them offer Shimano electronic bikes.


Probably Andrews SRAM management source meant 'sold more wireless electronic shift control groups than Shimano and Campagnolo'. That I can agree with. I must say that more and more ready to go road bikes her in Europe are offered with SRAM eTap groups. First the reason for existence for SRAM was that their RED group was the lightest despite the clunky shifting in front and the idiot double tap thing (probably because of patents) now it is the wireless what is appealing for a lot of people for whatever reason.
My colleague got himself a Specialized Venge with Force eTap (hmm for that kind of money only a Force group?) and I asked him if he is not afraid that those little derailleurs batteries get stolen. He never thought of that but he doesn't let that expensive bike out of sight. I can understand that.

Lou

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...47&FORM=V IRE

This guy isn't afraid to express his opinion that for sure.

I'm not sure if he's working with the right parts. My Red crank had a preload ring, but then again, it wasn't GPX. It was just BB30. The Red crank failed because the pedal insert in the CF arm cracked and became lose. That design is destined to fail and the reason I don't buy CF cranks, although some manufacturers may do a better job. The Red were OE on a SuperSix.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 1:44:14 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 10:47:01 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 1:35:24 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 3:17:23 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 1:59:05 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:

SRAM beats both for 2019 pro group volume worldwide.


Really? More Force gruppos than Ultegra? Hard to believe if I look around here.

Lou

Clarification- I may have misunderstood my SRAM management
source last week. SRAM sold more _electronic shift control_
groups than Shimano and way more than Campagnolo EPS.
--
Andrew Muzi


Campagnolo being in third place and not even in sight of the others is more than believable. But with electronic only, I find it hard to believe SRAM outsells Shimano. I have not looked at the recent or current catalogs, but does Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, Giant even offer a SRAM electronic bike direct from the factory? I think those brands are the biggest bike sellers in the USA. Do any of them offer SRAM electronic? I am positive all of them offer Shimano electronic bikes.


Probably Andrews SRAM management source meant 'sold more wireless electronic shift control groups than Shimano and Campagnolo'. That I can agree with. I must say that more and more ready to go road bikes her in Europe are offered with SRAM eTap groups. First the reason for existence for SRAM was that their RED group was the lightest despite the clunky shifting in front and the idiot double tap thing (probably because of patents) now it is the wireless what is appealing for a lot of people for whatever reason.
My colleague got himself a Specialized Venge with Force eTap (hmm for that kind of money only a Force group?) and I asked him if he is not afraid that those little derailleurs batteries get stolen. He never thought of that but he doesn't let that expensive bike out of sight. I can understand that.

Lou

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...47&FORM=V IRE

This guy isn't afraid to express his opinion that for sure.

Lou

That "guy" is has a master's degree in mechanical engineering specializing in aerodynamics and works designing jet engines. I would hardly call him "that guy" as if you're putting him off so lightly.

On 1/5/2020 4:35 PM, wrote:
I must say that more and more ready to go road bikes her in Europe are offered with SRAM eTap groups. First the reason for existence for SRAM was that their RED group was the lightest despite the clunky shifting in front and the idiot double tap thing (probably because of patents)...

Whoa! Hold on here! Watch what you say!

Or is it suddenly becoming acceptable to criticize a design which is
heavily marketed and gushed over by magazine reviewers??

... now it is the wireless what is appealing for a lot of people for whatever reason.
My colleague got himself a Specialized Venge with Force eTap (hmm for that kind of money only a Force group?) and I asked him if he is not afraid that those little derailleurs batteries get stolen. He never thought of that but he doesn't let that expensive bike out of sight. I can understand that.

If this keeps up, Lou's going to be pining for SunTour shifters! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:14:24 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/5/2020 4:35 PM, wrote:
I must say that more and more ready to go road bikes her in Europe are offered with SRAM eTap groups. First the reason for existence for SRAM was that their RED group was the lightest despite the clunky shifting in front and the idiot double tap thing (probably because of patents)...

Whoa! Hold on here! Watch what you say!

Or is it suddenly becoming acceptable to criticize a design which is
heavily marketed and gushed over by magazine reviewers??

... now it is the wireless what is appealing for a lot of people for whatever reason.
My colleague got himself a Specialized Venge with Force eTap (hmm for that kind of money only a Force group?) and I asked him if he is not afraid that those little derailleurs batteries get stolen. He never thought of that but he doesn't let that expensive bike out of sight. I can understand that.

On 1/6/2020 12:27 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:14:24 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/5/2020 4:35 PM, wrote:
I must say that more and more ready to go road bikes her in Europe are offered with SRAM eTap groups. First the reason for existence for SRAM was that their RED group was the lightest despite the clunky shifting in front and the idiot double tap thing (probably because of patents)...

Whoa! Hold on here! Watch what you say!

Or is it suddenly becoming acceptable to criticize a design which is
heavily marketed and gushed over by magazine reviewers??

... now it is the wireless what is appealing for a lot of people for whatever reason.
My colleague got himself a Specialized Venge with Force eTap (hmm for that kind of money only a Force group?) and I asked him if he is not afraid that those little derailleurs batteries get stolen. He never thought of that but he doesn't let that expensive bike out of sight. I can understand that.

If this keeps up, Lou's going to be pining for SunTour shifters! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

I'm not criticize anything. I'm just explaining why I think people buy SRAM components.

I'm sorry, I guess I misunderstood. To me, "clunky shifting" and "idiot
double tap thing" sounded just a little like criticism.

Every new product is marketed even the SunTour shifters. That is not a bad thing. ... It is up to the people whether the marketed advantages are worthwhile for them.

Indeed! And a bike technical discussion group would seem like a good
place to discuss those points. Yet when a person disagrees here with the
marketed "advantages," they often get criticized! Isn't that odd?

Did you never worked for a comercial company that has to make profit, or are you always paid by the tax payer?

I guess I haven't worked for a company whose product was marketed based
on fashion. Hydraulic pumps and valves are hard to make fashionable.
Plastic sheeting, ditto (although I guess one could somehow try to make
plastic bags trendy). Electrical connectors, no. Holograms, well, kind
of... but that wasn't a "market directly to the consumer" thing. I've
seen underground electric wiring promoted only once in a consumer
publication.

If I had more experience in consumer products, would I learn to accept
all advertising as gospel truth? Somehow I doubt that.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:51:30 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/6/2020 12:27 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:14:24 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/5/2020 4:35 PM, wrote:
I must say that more and more ready to go road bikes her in Europe are offered with SRAM eTap groups. First the reason for existence for SRAM was that their RED group was the lightest despite the clunky shifting in front and the idiot double tap thing (probably because of patents)...

Whoa! Hold on here! Watch what you say!

Or is it suddenly becoming acceptable to criticize a design which is
heavily marketed and gushed over by magazine reviewers??

... now it is the wireless what is appealing for a lot of people for whatever reason.
My colleague got himself a Specialized Venge with Force eTap (hmm for that kind of money only a Force group?) and I asked him if he is not afraid that those little derailleurs batteries get stolen. He never thought of that but he doesn't let that expensive bike out of sight. I can understand that.

If this keeps up, Lou's going to be pining for SunTour shifters! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

I'm not criticize anything. I'm just explaining why I think people buy SRAM components.

I'm sorry, I guess I misunderstood. To me, "clunky shifting" and "idiot
double tap thing" sounded just a little like criticism.

Every new product is marketed even the SunTour shifters. That is not a bad thing. ... It is up to the people whether the marketed advantages are worthwhile for them.

Indeed! And a bike technical discussion group would seem like a good
place to discuss those points. Yet when a person disagrees here with the
marketed "advantages," they often get criticized! Isn't that odd?

Did you never worked for a comercial company that has to make profit, or are you always paid by the tax payer?

I guess I haven't worked for a company whose product was marketed based
on fashion. Hydraulic pumps and valves are hard to make fashionable.
Plastic sheeting, ditto (although I guess one could somehow try to make
plastic bags trendy). Electrical connectors, no. Holograms, well, kind
of... but that wasn't a "market directly to the consumer" thing. I've
seen underground electric wiring promoted only once in a consumer
publication.

If I had more experience in consumer products, would I learn to accept
all advertising as gospel truth? Somehow I doubt that.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Doesn't matter what product your company made. As long as you have competitors you have to come up with something different and market it to stand out from the product of the competition and the potential customer has to believe that.

Lou

An extract from Mein Kampf Too by Franki-boy Krygowski:
"Or is it suddenly becoming acceptable to criticize a design which is heavily marketed and gushed over by magazine reviewers?"

That's the essence of a democratic free market, Franki-boy. Everyone, even those who aren't Americans, are free to criticise anything. Experience of the product criticised aids credibility.

Andre Jute
Context in complete exchange below.

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 5:51:30 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/6/2020 12:27 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 6:14:24 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/5/2020 4:35 PM, wrote:
I must say that more and more ready to go road bikes her in Europe are offered with SRAM eTap groups. First the reason for existence for SRAM was that their RED group was the lightest despite the clunky shifting in front and the idiot double tap thing (probably because of patents)...

Whoa! Hold on here! Watch what you say!

Or is it suddenly becoming acceptable to criticize a design which is
heavily marketed and gushed over by magazine reviewers??

... now it is the wireless what is appealing for a lot of people for whatever reason.
My colleague got himself a Specialized Venge with Force eTap (hmm for that kind of money only a Force group?) and I asked him if he is not afraid that those little derailleurs batteries get stolen. He never thought of that but he doesn't let that expensive bike out of sight. I can understand that.

If this keeps up, Lou's going to be pining for SunTour shifters! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

I'm not criticize anything. I'm just explaining why I think people buy SRAM components.

I'm sorry, I guess I misunderstood. To me, "clunky shifting" and "idiot
double tap thing" sounded just a little like criticism.

Every new product is marketed even the SunTour shifters. That is not a bad thing. ... It is up to the people whether the marketed advantages are worthwhile for them.

Indeed! And a bike technical discussion group would seem like a good
place to discuss those points. Yet when a person disagrees here with the
marketed "advantages," they often get criticized! Isn't that odd?

Did you never worked for a comercial company that has to make profit, or are you always paid by the tax payer?

I guess I haven't worked for a company whose product was marketed based
on fashion. Hydraulic pumps and valves are hard to make fashionable.
Plastic sheeting, ditto (although I guess one could somehow try to make
plastic bags trendy). Electrical connectors, no. Holograms, well, kind
of... but that wasn't a "market directly to the consumer" thing. I've
seen underground electric wiring promoted only once in a consumer
publication.

If I had more experience in consumer products, would I learn to accept
all advertising as gospel truth? Somehow I doubt that.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 11:28:48 AM UTC-8, wrote:

Doesn't matter what product your company made. As long as you have competitors you have to come up with something different and market it to stand out from the product of the competition and the potential customer has to believe that.

Lou

I do not believe that you have to come up with something different. If your competition has a perfect product making yours different for the sake of making it different isn't really smart. The idea is to have a good product at a competitive price.

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 11:06:33 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 11:28:48 AM UTC-8, wrote:

Doesn't matter what product your company made. As long as you have competitors you have to come up with something different and market it to stand out from the product of the competition and the potential customer has to believe that.

Lou

I do not believe that you have to come up with something different. If your competition has a perfect product making yours different for the sake of making it different isn't really smart. The idea is to have a good product at a competitive price.

The idea is to avoid their patents and hopefully come up with a better product, at least arguably. Power meters can be implemented in so many different ways that I don't think it is too hard to avoid existing patents. With gear shifting systems, people have had to get exotic. https://www.velonews.com/2016/06/bik...hifting_410124 You need hydraulic shifting. Really.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 8:06:33 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 11:28:48 AM UTC-8, wrote:

Doesn't matter what product your company made. As long as you have competitors you have to come up with something different and market it to stand out from the product of the competition and the potential customer has to believe that.

Lou

I do not believe that you have to come up with something different. If your competition has a perfect product making yours different for the sake of making it different isn't really smart. The idea is to have a good product at a competitive price.

Different may also mean different price.

Lou