Voiding the warranty -- Dyno Redux

On 1/8/2020 9:40 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:

I've been commuting home at night for the last 35 years in Portland, much
of it in the rain during the wet months, so its like thousands and
thousands AND thousands (did I mention thousands?) of miles in the dark,
and all I got to say is that the Luxos B and the SPPD8 suck compared to a
sale-table all-in-one battery light, my L&M Urban 800. Even on low beam.

It's not a low beam. As you could have looked up and mentioned yourself,
your L&M flashlight's low setting produces 175 factory lumens. An undamaged
Luxos is certainly putting out less than half when you ride at 10 mph, and
much of it purposefully directed at the beam's top.

Good point, that there's a difference between "low beam" and "dimmer
beam." When I mentioned upthread that there might be a (very) few times
I'd like a high beam, I meant light shining upward, not light just
shining brighter.

For decades, cars have had high beams (essentially a conical spray of
light) and low beams. The low beams concentrate light just below the
horizontal cutoff for "throw" down the road without blinding others. As
a side effect, that uses the available light more efficiently. And if
the optics are the best, the portion of the beam that shines closest to
the vehicle decreases in brightness, to give uniform illumination.

It's worth noting that conical beam bike lights (all non-StVZO bike
headlights) don't form a correct "low beam" when tipped down. They
overcook the pavement right in front of the bike. Your eyes adapt to
that hot spot, making them worse for seeing elsewhere.

I suspect I've got a problem with my light and will do some more testing
tonight with my sooper-sophisticated Radio Shack multimeter.

More uncertainty induced by a questionable cat meter, operated by a lawyer.
For how many years have you been complaining about that Luxos? Come on,
send the damn thing to Frank! The California-made, plastic flashlight he is
willing to dump^Wswap has not gotten better by sitting in his garage.

Actually, it's in my basement. :-)



Based on the
Peter White beam shots and the some other stuff off the interweb, the
light should be brighter than it is -- unless the interweb is wrong, and
that's impossible.

Maybe your intraweb skills that are inadequate. Forget PW's sales material,
it's a nice presentation of beam shapes, but similarly exaggerating of the
brighter lamps' visual impressions as b&m's pictures taken inside their
misleadingly lightly painted garage. By contrast, J. Basler's photos and O.
Schultz's measurement data have been up for years for the inqusitive to
study -- and for the ignorant to ignore or deny. This
https://www.baslerbikes.de/files/BaslerBikes/Bilder/Fotos/Leuchtentest%202013/Leuchtentest/IMG_0040_233731.jpg
is a better illustration of what a Luxos rider sees on dark asphalt, at 20
kph.

As I said, I don't know how we'll agree on beam shots that accurately
represent the brightness of a headlight. For one thing, it seems that
people's night vision varies quite a bit. I know I see much, much better
with my Cyo (or even my Eyc N Plus) than that dark photo shows.

For conspicuity - being seen by other road users - I think a useful test
is to note how far away one's headlight illuminates a road sign. My Cyo
lights up a stop sign nearly 1/4 mile (400 meters) away. That means the
light has traveled 800 meters to the sign and back to my eye, despite
reflective losses. ISTM that's clearly sufficient conspicuity.

For illuminating the road surface, I've proposed that if my headlight
beam is visible on the road under a street lamp, it's bright enough. I
say that because if I had to ride under street lamps with no headlight,
I'd still be able to spot rocks and potholes.

But I don't expect to see my headlight beam on a really wet road. The
water surface acts like a mirror, bouncing the entire beam down the
road, reflecting zero back to me. That's true even of a car's
headlights. It does not mean the headlight beam wouldn't show a rock or
other obstacle sticking up. And while it's true a pothole filled with
water can be dangerously invisible, it can still be invisible, with a
car headlight.

It will appear even darker if, before steering onto treacherously dark
Dyno Flicker Park trails, you had just taken out your low-light vision by
your 800 lumens flashlight beam switched on due to competing road traffic's
glare.

Yes, one's own headlight can ruin night vision if the light's bad
enough. Opposing headlight glare can hurt too, as can other light
sources. My most common night utility ride takes me from a busy,
well-lit highway to a somewhat darker residential street, to my even
darker street. Perhaps I'm lucky that the transition is somewhat gradual.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Here's a question:

How many here have crashed on the road or a rail-trail because their
headlight was insufficient?

(I'm not talking about off-road woods riding.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 5:07:28 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 8:33:20 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 2:40:25 PM UTC, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:

I've been commuting home at night for the last 35 years in Portland, much
of it in the rain during the wet months, so its like thousands and
thousands AND thousands (did I mention thousands?) of miles in the dark,
and all I got to say is that the Luxos B and the SPPD8 suck compared to a
sale-table all-in-one battery light, my L&M Urban 800. Even on low beam.

It's not a low beam. As you could have looked up and mentioned yourself,
your L&M flashlight's low setting produces 175 factory lumens. An undamaged
Luxos is certainly putting out less than half when you ride at 10 mph, and
much of it purposefully directed at the beam's top.

I suspect I've got a problem with my light and will do some more testing
tonight with my sooper-sophisticated Radio Shack multimeter.

More uncertainty induced by a questionable cat meter, operated by a lawyer.
For how many years have you been complaining about that Luxos? Come on,
send the damn thing to Frank! The California-made, plastic flashlight he is
willing to dump^Wswap has not gotten better by sitting in his garage.

+10.

Based on the
Peter White beam shots and the some other stuff off the interweb, the
light should be brighter than it is -- unless the interweb is wrong, and
that's impossible.

They rip you double at the Bar Council for being so gullible.

Maybe your intraweb skills that are inadequate. Forget PW's sales material,
it's a nice presentation of beam shapes, but similarly exaggerating of the
brighter lamps' visual impressions as b&m's pictures taken inside their
misleadingly lightly painted garage. By contrast, J. Basler's photos and O.
Schultz's measurement data have been up for years for the inqusitive to
study -- and for the ignorant to ignore or deny. This
https://www.baslerbikes.de/files/BaslerBikes/Bilder/Fotos/Leuchtentest%202013/Leuchtentest/IMG_0040_233731.jpg
is a better illustration of what a Luxos rider sees on dark asphalt, at 20
kph.

Perhaps that road was wet. My asphalt is usually grey rather than black, including the tarmac on the lane where this photo was taken:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....59139#msg59139

I still use the first series Cyo, waiting for a quantum-step from BUMM. But meanwhile I've given up riding in the night when it rains because at my age a broken hip will just be too debilitating.

I've got a couple broken ribs from the last crash that hurt like a MF. I crept home in the pouring rain last night, feeling every unseen bump climbing up the goat road to my neighborhood. Creeping along at 6-10mph up a climb, I decided to skip the Luxos dying Tinker Bell mood light and fire up the L&M. Today I drove to see if I could get some healing, so no riding home in the dark tonight. I didn't bother with more testing last night. Maybe I'll do that tonight.

You're just putting the rejoining of the bones off, and weakening the bond that forms, by doing handyman jobs on you bike. Sit in an easy chair with your feet up and get your dog to bing your slippers.

The deal with dyno lights is that they are wickedly expensive, and with a decent hub dyno, even more so. You would think that $400-500 for tippy top of the line stuff would get you a stadium light with cut-off. You would not even think there would be any back-and-forth on the subject.

I've been saying that for a very long time. I see absolutely no reason a bicycle shouldn't have lamps at least as good as those on a car, and I don't mean the crap lamps fitted to American cars, I mean European E55 spec lamps or better.

The good news is that my Showers Pass jacket kept me dry. That's a nice piece of kit. And all my wrenching over the weekend produced a quite drive train. The BB30 bearings were in great shape, and reinstalling the crank with a little grease stopped the clicking. The dyno wheel has a different rotor which was a little grabby, but not terrible.

I've developed my bike to near-zero maintenance. Once a year I change the gearbox oil, give the clickbox for the gears a shot of Phil, and every second or third year I check the thickness of the brake blocks, the depth of the rubber on the tyres and the wear on the chain which runs for its entire life on the factory lube.

Five stars for the over-priced Hayes feeler gauge: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

Don't you have a thumbnail? Or a torch that you can hold behind the brake block which instantly tells you whether there is the right amount of space and whether the block is angled right if need be or straight if that is wanted.

Perfect adjustment of the calipers with no drag. Another Christmas gift was this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1000_.jpg Also convenient, but redundant.

What does it do?

-- Jay Beattie.

Andre Jute
Given from my treadmill

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 6:12:24 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Here's a question:

How many here have crashed on the road or a rail-trail because their
headlight was insufficient?

(I'm not talking about off-road woods riding.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

Most people adapt their speed Frank. When the daylight saving time ends I start riding in the dark from begin to end. My average speed drops 3 km/hr.

Lou

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 8:08:48 PM UTC+1, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 5:07:28 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 8:33:20 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 2:40:25 PM UTC, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:

I've been commuting home at night for the last 35 years in Portland, much
of it in the rain during the wet months, so its like thousands and
thousands AND thousands (did I mention thousands?) of miles in the dark,
and all I got to say is that the Luxos B and the SPPD8 suck compared to a
sale-table all-in-one battery light, my L&M Urban 800. Even on low beam.

It's not a low beam. As you could have looked up and mentioned yourself,
your L&M flashlight's low setting produces 175 factory lumens. An undamaged
Luxos is certainly putting out less than half when you ride at 10 mph, and
much of it purposefully directed at the beam's top.

I suspect I've got a problem with my light and will do some more testing
tonight with my sooper-sophisticated Radio Shack multimeter.

More uncertainty induced by a questionable cat meter, operated by a lawyer.
For how many years have you been complaining about that Luxos? Come on,
send the damn thing to Frank! The California-made, plastic flashlight he is
willing to dump^Wswap has not gotten better by sitting in his garage.

+10.

Based on the
Peter White beam shots and the some other stuff off the interweb, the
light should be brighter than it is -- unless the interweb is wrong, and
that's impossible.

They rip you double at the Bar Council for being so gullible.

Maybe your intraweb skills that are inadequate. Forget PW's sales material,
it's a nice presentation of beam shapes, but similarly exaggerating of the
brighter lamps' visual impressions as b&m's pictures taken inside their
misleadingly lightly painted garage. By contrast, J. Basler's photos and O.
Schultz's measurement data have been up for years for the inqusitive to
study -- and for the ignorant to ignore or deny. This
https://www.baslerbikes.de/files/BaslerBikes/Bilder/Fotos/Leuchtentest%202013/Leuchtentest/IMG_0040_233731.jpg
is a better illustration of what a Luxos rider sees on dark asphalt, at 20
kph.

Perhaps that road was wet. My asphalt is usually grey rather than black, including the tarmac on the lane where this photo was taken:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....59139#msg59139

I still use the first series Cyo, waiting for a quantum-step from BUMM. But meanwhile I've given up riding in the night when it rains because at my age a broken hip will just be too debilitating.

I've got a couple broken ribs from the last crash that hurt like a MF. I crept home in the pouring rain last night, feeling every unseen bump climbing up the goat road to my neighborhood. Creeping along at 6-10mph up a climb, I decided to skip the Luxos dying Tinker Bell mood light and fire up the L&M. Today I drove to see if I could get some healing, so no riding home in the dark tonight. I didn't bother with more testing last night. Maybe I'll do that tonight.

You're just putting the rejoining of the bones off, and weakening the bond that forms, by doing handyman jobs on you bike. Sit in an easy chair with your feet up and get your dog to bing your slippers.

The deal with dyno lights is that they are wickedly expensive, and with a decent hub dyno, even more so. You would think that $400-500 for tippy top of the line stuff would get you a stadium light with cut-off. You would not even think there would be any back-and-forth on the subject.

I've been saying that for a very long time. I see absolutely no reason a bicycle shouldn't have lamps at least as good as those on a car, and I don't mean the crap lamps fitted to American cars, I mean European E55 spec lamps or better.

The good news is that my Showers Pass jacket kept me dry. That's a nice piece of kit. And all my wrenching over the weekend produced a quite drive train. The BB30 bearings were in great shape, and reinstalling the crank with a little grease stopped the clicking. The dyno wheel has a different rotor which was a little grabby, but not terrible.

I've developed my bike to near-zero maintenance. Once a year I change the gearbox oil, give the clickbox for the gears a shot of Phil, and every second or third year I check the thickness of the brake blocks, the depth of the rubber on the tyres and the wear on the chain which runs for its entire life on the factory lube.

Five stars for the over-priced Hayes feeler gauge: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

Don't you have a thumbnail? Or a torch that you can hold behind the brake block which instantly tells you whether there is the right amount of space and whether the block is angled right if need be or straight if that is wanted.

Perfect adjustment of the calipers with no drag. Another Christmas gift was this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1000_.jpg Also convenient, but redundant.

What does it do?



Tool to preload the bearings of hollowtech II crank.

Lou

On 1/8/2020 1:08 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 5:07:28 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 8:33:20 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 2:40:25 PM UTC, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:

I've been commuting home at night for the last 35 years in Portland, much
of it in the rain during the wet months, so its like thousands and
thousands AND thousands (did I mention thousands?) of miles in the dark,
and all I got to say is that the Luxos B and the SPPD8 suck compared to a
sale-table all-in-one battery light, my L&M Urban 800. Even on low beam.

It's not a low beam. As you could have looked up and mentioned yourself,
your L&M flashlight's low setting produces 175 factory lumens. An undamaged
Luxos is certainly putting out less than half when you ride at 10 mph, and
much of it purposefully directed at the beam's top.

I suspect I've got a problem with my light and will do some more testing
tonight with my sooper-sophisticated Radio Shack multimeter.

More uncertainty induced by a questionable cat meter, operated by a lawyer.
For how many years have you been complaining about that Luxos? Come on,
send the damn thing to Frank! The California-made, plastic flashlight he is
willing to dump^Wswap has not gotten better by sitting in his garage.

+10.

Based on the
Peter White beam shots and the some other stuff off the interweb, the
light should be brighter than it is -- unless the interweb is wrong, and
that's impossible.

They rip you double at the Bar Council for being so gullible.

Maybe your intraweb skills that are inadequate. Forget PW's sales material,
it's a nice presentation of beam shapes, but similarly exaggerating of the
brighter lamps' visual impressions as b&m's pictures taken inside their
misleadingly lightly painted garage. By contrast, J. Basler's photos and O.
Schultz's measurement data have been up for years for the inqusitive to
study -- and for the ignorant to ignore or deny. This
https://www.baslerbikes.de/files/BaslerBikes/Bilder/Fotos/Leuchtentest%202013/Leuchtentest/IMG_0040_233731.jpg
is a better illustration of what a Luxos rider sees on dark asphalt, at 20
kph.

Perhaps that road was wet. My asphalt is usually grey rather than black, including the tarmac on the lane where this photo was taken:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....59139#msg59139

I still use the first series Cyo, waiting for a quantum-step from BUMM. But meanwhile I've given up riding in the night when it rains because at my age a broken hip will just be too debilitating.

I've got a couple broken ribs from the last crash that hurt like a MF. I crept home in the pouring rain last night, feeling every unseen bump climbing up the goat road to my neighborhood. Creeping along at 6-10mph up a climb, I decided to skip the Luxos dying Tinker Bell mood light and fire up the L&M. Today I drove to see if I could get some healing, so no riding home in the dark tonight. I didn't bother with more testing last night. Maybe I'll do that tonight.

You're just putting the rejoining of the bones off, and weakening the bond that forms, by doing handyman jobs on you bike. Sit in an easy chair with your feet up and get your dog to bing your slippers.

The deal with dyno lights is that they are wickedly expensive, and with a decent hub dyno, even more so. You would think that $400-500 for tippy top of the line stuff would get you a stadium light with cut-off. You would not even think there would be any back-and-forth on the subject.

I've been saying that for a very long time. I see absolutely no reason a bicycle shouldn't have lamps at least as good as those on a car, and I don't mean the crap lamps fitted to American cars, I mean European E55 spec lamps or better.

The good news is that my Showers Pass jacket kept me dry. That's a nice piece of kit. And all my wrenching over the weekend produced a quite drive train. The BB30 bearings were in great shape, and reinstalling the crank with a little grease stopped the clicking. The dyno wheel has a different rotor which was a little grabby, but not terrible.

I've developed my bike to near-zero maintenance. Once a year I change the gearbox oil, give the clickbox for the gears a shot of Phil, and every second or third year I check the thickness of the brake blocks, the depth of the rubber on the tyres and the wear on the chain which runs for its entire life on the factory lube.

Five stars for the over-priced Hayes feeler gauge: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

Don't you have a thumbnail? Or a torch that you can hold behind the brake block which instantly tells you whether there is the right amount of space and whether the block is angled right if need be or straight if that is wanted.

Perfect adjustment of the calipers with no drag. Another Christmas gift was this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1000_.jpg Also convenient, but redundant.

What does it do?


It sets the bearing preload cap in the Shimano LH crank arm
while reminding the user of happier days with its Gripfast
wingnut styling.

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...griffith10.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/8/2020 12:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:

The deal with dyno lights is that they are wickedly expensive, and with a decent hub dyno, even more so. You would think that $400-500 for tippy top of the line stuff would get you a stadium light with cut-off. You would not even think there would be any back-and-forth on the subject.

This sounds similar to "Bike tires should last 30,000 miles like on my
SUV. And bikes should have complete electrical circuits built in for
horns and sirens and any other accessory the rider wants. And why aren't
spokes 1/8" thick? If one breaks, the mountain lions will get me!"

A bicycle should be an example of appropriate technology. Yes,
"appropriate" varies from person to person. But only bicyclists
traveling as fast as cars need car headlights. I don't understand why
bicyclists demand overkill in just this one area.

I do agree about the cut-off, though. I've been blinded a few times and
seriously irritated many more by the "more is always better" crowd.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/8/2020 2:16 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 6:12:24 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Here's a question:

How many here have crashed on the road or a rail-trail because their
headlight was insufficient?

(I'm not talking about off-road woods riding.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

Most people adapt their speed Frank. When the daylight saving time ends I start riding in the dark from begin to end. My average speed drops 3 km/hr.

IOW, your response is "Not me." Correct?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/8/2020 2:20 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/8/2020 1:08 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 5:07:28 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
Another Christmas
gift was this:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1000_.jpg
Also convenient, but redundant.

What does it do?


It sets the bearing preload cap in the Shimano LH crank arm while
reminding the user of happier days with its Gripfast wingnut styling.

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...griffith10.jpg

Ah yes! I installed a pair of those for a friend a couple of years ago.
And I think I have a couple more left downstairs.

I guess I should throw a few things away...

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/8/2020 1:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/8/2020 12:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:

The deal with dyno lights is that they are wickedly
expensive, and with a decent hub dyno, even more so. You
would think that $400-500 for tippy top of the line stuff
would get you a stadium light with cut-off. You would not
even think there would be any back-and-forth on the subject.

This sounds similar to "Bike tires should last 30,000 miles
like on my SUV. And bikes should have complete electrical
circuits built in for horns and sirens and any other
accessory the rider wants. And why aren't spokes 1/8" thick?
If one breaks, the mountain lions will get me!"

A bicycle should be an example of appropriate technology.
Yes, "appropriate" varies from person to person. But only
bicyclists traveling as fast as cars need car headlights. I
don't understand why bicyclists demand overkill in just this
one area.

I do agree about the cut-off, though. I've been blinded a
few times and seriously irritated many more by the "more is
always better" crowd.



Huh how about that.
Also sounds similar to 'no one ought to ride a tire cross
section I personally dislike'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971