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#11
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Gremlins and bikes!
On 6/9/2019 5:04 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jun 2019 16:07:34 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 6/9/2019 1:12 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 10:55:36 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 9:38:36 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 6/9/2019 7:41 AM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:26:26 -0700 (PDT), ...My son was having shifting problems suggestive of worn cassettes, so I put on a new 10sp cassette that I had hanging around for the bike (a CAAD 9 that used to be mine). Shifted beautifully. We went for a ride, and the cassette was rattling like it was loose. It was -- and it needed a 1mm shim for the old 8/9 freehub body. It seemed fine when I put it together. So, I put in the shim, and it silenced the rattle. Oddly, there was no shim when I pulled the old cassettes, and I don't recall ever using one in the past -- at least not on a Shimano hub. This is too weird. We run a 10-speed Shimano cassette with a long throw Ultegra road derailer on our tandem.... ...I took the wheel off to clean the cassette, and discovered the cogs were loose... I got a spacer at the LBS, and the looseness is gone. Haven't ridden it yet, but it shifts fine in the stand, and I expect the same on the road. Yes, Shimano Ten format cassettes (whether Shimano brand or not) use a 1mm spacer behind low gear. Sprockets loose on body is an amazingly common and annoying service error both at home and in some shops. Thanks, Andrew. The weird thing is I have zero memory of seeing any spacer when I took the cassette off, nor can I find one around my shop area. It worked fine before taking the cassette off to replace the spoke, so I suppose I didn't see and lost it. It's an actual Shimano part. First result in web search: https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/...cassette-26559 Interesting. The spacer my LBS gave me had the little tabs on the inner circumference. I didn't measure it, but it looked thin to be 1 mm. If you look inside most modern 11 or 12 tooth sprockets, you'll see the slots don't go all the way through. The end of the slots are closed, making total sprocket depth critical. http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/262225...-1/s-l1000.jpg Hence the spacer. Your dealer's not wrong, just about anything would work so long as (and as you found) the sprockets don't flop around. p.s. Six speed sprocket sets fit six speed bodies. Seven speed with seven, eight speed with 8. Starting with the 8 speed era, most replacement wheels include a spacer to fit a Seven on your 8 cassette body. That's more sensible than keeping 2 kinds (7/8) of the same wheel inventoried. So since that was already well established when the number of damned-near-functional combinations exploded, nobody in the industry thought that thin CS-10 spacer was anything unusual. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#12
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Gremlins and bikes!
On Sun, 09 Jun 2019 17:56:57 -0500,
AMuzi wrote: On 6/9/2019 5:04 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Sun, 09 Jun 2019 16:07:34 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 6/9/2019 1:12 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 10:55:36 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 9:38:36 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 6/9/2019 7:41 AM, Theodore Heise wrote: ...I took the wheel off to clean the cassette, and discovered the cogs were loose... I got a spacer at the LBS, and the looseness is gone. Haven't ridden it yet, but it shifts fine in the stand, and I expect the same on the road. Yes, Shimano Ten format cassettes (whether Shimano brand or not) use a 1mm spacer behind low gear. Sprockets loose on body is an amazingly common and annoying service error both at home and in some shops. Thanks, Andrew. The weird thing is I have zero memory of seeing any spacer when I took the cassette off, nor can I find one around my shop area. It worked fine before taking the cassette off to replace the spoke, so I suppose I didn't see and lost it. It's an actual Shimano part. First result in web search: https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/...cassette-26559 Interesting. The spacer my LBS gave me had the little tabs on the inner circumference. I didn't measure it, but it looked thin to be 1 mm. If you look inside most modern 11 or 12 tooth sprockets, you'll see the slots don't go all the way through. The end of the slots are closed, making total sprocket depth critical. http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/262225...-1/s-l1000.jpg Hence the spacer. Your dealer's not wrong, just about anything would work so long as (and as you found) the sprockets don't flop around. The picture and point are both helpful, thank you. It took my LBS some time to find any kind of spacer, so my guess is they may be aware of the "proper" part but also realized other options were ok. p.s. Six speed sprocket sets fit six speed bodies. Seven speed with seven, eight speed with 8. Starting with the 8 speed era, most replacement wheels include a spacer to fit a Seven on your 8 cassette body. That's more sensible than keeping 2 kinds (7/8) of the same wheel inventoried. So since that was already well established when the number of damned-near-functional combinations exploded, nobody in the industry thought that thin CS-10 spacer was anything unusual. I'm sure you are right. I'd only clarify my perspective a bit. My experience is too sparse to have considered the spacer use usual or unusual, it's more that I'm surprised not to have noticed looseness or a spacer in the several years I've had this wheel/hub combination. -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA |
#13
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Gremlins and bikes!
On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 9:38:36 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/9/2019 7:41 AM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:26:26 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 9:22:42 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: Let's share stories of when Gremlins strike. My latest is my Schwalbe 30mm CX Pro cyclocross tire. It has gone completely flat a couple of times lately. So, yesterday I took the tube out and pumped it up quite a bit to check it for pinholes. PAssed it numerous times under water in a large pan. No bubbles at all. Even checked the valve still no bubbles. Pumped up the tube more and left it to hang overnight. This morning it was still full of air. Let the air out and placed tube back under tire and mounted tire to the rim. Pumped it up to 80psi and went for a ride. Rode for a couple of hours and came home. Tire pressure still at 80psi. I can only conclude that there are Gremlins in my apartment and they let the air out of the tire. Note that the tire was completely flat not just soft. What have Gremlins done to your bike? Not a gremlin, but a WTF? My son was having shifting problems suggestive of worn cassettes, so I put on a new 10sp cassette that I had hanging around for the bike (a CAAD 9 that used to be mine). Shifted beautifully. We went for a ride, and the cassette was rattling like it was loose. It was -- and it needed a 1mm shim for the old 8/9 freehub body. It seemed fine when I put it together. So, I put in the shim, and it silenced the rattle. Oddly, there was no shim when I pulled the old cassettes, and I don't recall ever using one in the past -- at least not on a Shimano hub. Maybe I'm just getting addled. This is too weird. We run a 10-speed Shimano cassette with a long throw Ultegra road derailer on our tandem. Two weeks ago the derailer body snapped, and I replaced it with a new part (same model). The shop also trued the wheel and adjusted the derailer hanger at the same time, though the hanger had been unaffected by the derailer breaking. Last weekend, we broke a rear spoke. I replaced the spoke, and touched up the true of the wheel. Yesterday we were out riding, and I realized I'd gotten the cable adjusted off by a gear. I tightened the cable enough to cover the full range of 10 cogs, and we then had some weird shifting problems. I gradually got the cable tension dialed in, but there was a spot or two going across the casette where the shifting just jumped, oor even auto shifted at times. After we got home, I took the wheel off to clean the cassette, and discovered the cogs were loose. I out on a brand new cassettte, and had the same looseness. How did this happen? The cassette and rear der had behaved beautifully for many many hundreds of miles. I got a spacer at the LBS, and the looseness is gone. Haven't ridden it yet, but it shifts fine in the stand, and I expect the same on the road. Yes, Shimano Ten format cassettes (whether Shimano brand or not) use a 1mm spacer behind low gear. Sprockets loose on body is an amazingly common and annoying service error both at home and in some shops. Intermittent or inconsistent shifting, if yet unresolved, may well be a kinked gear wire, a fraying gear wire ( look in/near shifter!) or damaged casing (usually at first casing stop). -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Also, tandems put a huge strain on wheels and chains and need to be replaced on a short schedule. Most do not do this. |
#14
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Gremlins and bikes!
On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 2:07:42 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/9/2019 1:12 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 10:55:36 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 9:38:36 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 6/9/2019 7:41 AM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:26:26 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 9:22:42 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: Let's share stories of when Gremlins strike. My latest is my Schwalbe 30mm CX Pro cyclocross tire. It has gone completely flat a couple of times lately. [with no cause found] What have Gremlins done to your bike? Not a gremlin, but a WTF? My son was having shifting problems suggestive of worn cassettes, so I put on a new 10sp cassette that I had hanging around for the bike (a CAAD 9 that used to be mine). Shifted beautifully. We went for a ride, and the cassette was rattling like it was loose. It was -- and it needed a 1mm shim for the old 8/9 freehub body. It seemed fine when I put it together. So, I put in the shim, and it silenced the rattle. Oddly, there was no shim when I pulled the old cassettes, and I don't recall ever using one in the past -- at least not on a Shimano hub. This is too weird. We run a 10-speed Shimano cassette with a long throw Ultegra road derailer on our tandem. Two weeks ago the derailer body snapped, and I replaced it with a new part (same model). The shop also trued the wheel and adjusted the derailer hanger at the same time, though the hanger had been unaffected by the derailer breaking. Last weekend, we broke a rear spoke. I replaced the spoke, and touched up the true of the wheel. Yesterday we were out riding, and I realized I'd gotten the cable adjusted off by a gear. I tightened the cable enough to cover the full range of 10 cogs, and we then had some weird shifting problems. I gradually got the cable tension dialed in, but there was a spot or two going across the casette where the shifting just jumped, oor even auto shifted at times. After we got home, I took the wheel off to clean the cassette, and discovered the cogs were loose. I out on a brand new cassettte, and had the same looseness. How did this happen? The cassette and rear der had behaved beautifully for many many hundreds of miles. I got a spacer at the LBS, and the looseness is gone. Haven't ridden it yet, but it shifts fine in the stand, and I expect the same on the road. Yes, Shimano Ten format cassettes (whether Shimano brand or not) use a 1mm spacer behind low gear. Sprockets loose on body is an amazingly common and annoying service error both at home and in some shops. Thanks, Andrew. The weird thing is I have zero memory of seeing any spacer when I took the cassette off, nor can I find one around my shop area. It worked fine before taking the cassette off to replace the spoke, so I suppose I didn't see and lost it. Intermittent or inconsistent shifting, if yet unresolved, may well be a kinked gear wire, a fraying gear wire ( look in/near shifter!) or damaged casing (usually at first casing stop). Yes, that also crossed my mind. I've most often seen it manifest as failed or greatly delayed shifting to smaller cogs because the added friction from a damaged wire or housing is more easily overcome when pulling the cable (i.e., shifting to a larger cog.) I don't think that's the problem here, but if it persists this will definitely be the next thing I look into. Is it a product-generational thing? I don't remember using one before on 10sp. It might be because I was using a different set of wheels with a later generation freehub body (?). Same here. I don't recall ever seeing a spacer under the cassette on this (or indeed any) Shimano component. It's an actual Shimano part. First result in web search: https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/...cassette-26559 -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 The best way to tell is that the cassette will rattle back and forth without the spacer. |
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