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I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 26th 07, 09:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Burt
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Posts: 68
Default I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour


I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and
kicks them out adds credibility to the race.

Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the
game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do
you think would happen.

If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible.

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  #2  
Old July 26th 07, 10:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
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Posts: 3,092
Default I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour

On Jul 26, 1:58 am, Burt wrote:
I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and
kicks them out adds credibility to the race.

Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the
game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do
you think would happen.

If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible.



A lot of these come from sportswriters. Sports writing
is all about suspension of disbelief; even for those
writers that are skeptical, a necessary element of the
craft is to mythologize actions that are meaningful only
because we invest them with significance when played
out against arbitrary rules. In real life, there's
nothing wrong with making part of a 26-mile trip on
the subway; it's only cheating in a marathon, and we
only care because running all the way seems important
by the rules of the game. For the first marathoner
in his run from Marathon, of course there were no rules
and it wasn't a game.

Kicking racers out of the Tour doesn't make the Tour
less credible. It makes people who yesterday were
writing about the heroic achievements of those same
racers seem less credible, and understandably, they
resent it. It's partly their fault for forgetting
that it's only a game. But we the readers eat up the
mythology they feed us, so it's our fault too.

Ben

  #3  
Old July 26th 07, 12:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 40
Default I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour

On Jul 26, 4:58 am, Burt wrote:
I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and
kicks them out adds credibility to the race.

Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the
game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do
you think would happen.

If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible.


There are too many cases and no change in the frequency of occurances
for credibility to be found here.

Your sport is catching those who make mistakes with their doping,
thats all.

Rasmassen, if he had not been spotted in the Dolomites would have not
failed a test.

After 5 years of clean tours, you will regain credibilty. Currently
the sport of cycling is at a lower point than when Floyd cheated.

However so many enthusiasts bury their head in the sand.

Each rider left after a doping withdrawel is assumed clean......

  #4  
Old July 26th 07, 02:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
steve
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Posts: 87
Default I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour

On 26-Jul-2007, smacked up and reeling, Burt blindly
formulated
the following incoherence:

I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and
kicks them out adds credibility to the race.

Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the
game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do
you think would happen.

If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible.


Two things:

1. Riders affect one anothers performances in a variety of ways. Pulling a
rider doesnt undo his effect on the race, so the end result is not the same
as if the rider had not started. It's like trying to re-score a baseball
game by eliminating one player, the runs he scored or batted-in, the outs,
put-outs, errors, etc. that he made. You cant undo the effect of his
participation, so the result itself is not credible. It was Rabo pulling
all day for a week. What if it had been Disco, Astana, or Lotto? How can a
winner be credibly declared now?

2. The drug testing and appeals process itself is not seen as credible by
many people. The presumption of guilt, sloppy lab work, and press leaks all
give the impression of an unfair and out of control process.

All this leaves me (and I assume many others) feeling that the tour is no
longer a true athletic test of the participants.

steve
--
"The accused will now make a bogus statement."
James Joyce
  #5  
Old July 26th 07, 04:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,322
Default I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour

On Jul 26, 6:16 am, wrote:
Your sport is catching those who make mistakes with their doping,
thats all.


You forgot ruining careers, driving out sponsors, and so forth.

Rasmassen, if he had not been spotted in the Dolomites would have not
failed a test.


He didn't fail any tests, whether or not he was actually "spotted" in
the Dolomites. Jailhouse testimony automatically taken as truth?

After 5 years of clean tours, you will regain credibilty.


Not ever, if they're only catching those who don't cheat well, per
your comment above.

Currently the sport of cycling is at a lower point than when Floyd cheated.


As leaked from the lab that couldn't shoot straight? The test that
showed the sample to be contaminated? You've been reading ahead in
your magic book so you know what the outcome of adjudication is going
to be before the rest of us?

However so many enthusiasts bury their head in the sand.


What does "bury their head in the sand" mean in plain English? What
percentage of enthusiasts do you think have "buried their heads"?

Each rider left after a doping withdrawel is assumed clean......


That's just throwing more dirt.

What sport did or do you compete in, again? --D-y

  #6  
Old July 26th 07, 05:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Donald Munro
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Posts: 4,811
Default I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour

anton2468 wrote:
However so many enthusiasts bury their head in the sand.
Each rider left after a doping withdrawel is assumed clean......


Dumbass,
Most of us are aware that they dope but we don't really care.
  #7  
Old July 26th 07, 05:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
SLAVE of THE STATE
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Posts: 1,774
Default I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour

On Jul 26, 2:24 am, "
wrote:
On Jul 26, 1:58 am, Burt wrote:

I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and
kicks them out adds credibility to the race.


Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the
game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do
you think would happen.


If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible.


A lot of these come from sportswriters. Sports writing
is all about suspension of disbelief; even for those
writers that are skeptical, a necessary element of the
craft is to mythologize actions that are meaningful only
because we invest them with significance when played
out against arbitrary rules. In real life, there's
nothing wrong with making part of a 26-mile trip on
the subway; it's only cheating in a marathon, and we
only care because running all the way seems important
by the rules of the game. For the first marathoner
in his run from Marathon, of course there were no rules
and it wasn't a game.

Kicking racers out of the Tour doesn't make the Tour
less credible. It makes people who yesterday were
writing about the heroic achievements of those same
racers seem less credible, and understandably, they
resent it. It's partly their fault for forgetting
that it's only a game. But we the readers eat up the
mythology they feed us, so it's our fault too.

Ben


I always thought the sportswriters were simply dumbasses that had to
write something rather than nothing.

My explanation is simpler, easier to remember, works in theory, and
works in practice. Therefore it is a better model than yours.

  #8  
Old July 26th 07, 05:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
SLAVE of THE STATE
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Posts: 1,774
Default I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour

On Jul 26, 4:16 am, wrote:

Your sport is catching those who make mistakes with their doping,
thats all.


WTF is all this "your" sport and "our" sport bull****?


  #9  
Old July 26th 07, 06:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
SLAVE of THE STATE
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Posts: 1,774
Default I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour

On Jul 26, 6:41 am, "steve" wrote:

All this leaves me (and I assume many others) feeling that the tour is no
longer a true athletic test of the participants.


No true athlete would dope.

No true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

  #10  
Old July 26th 07, 07:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
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Posts: 3,092
Default I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour

On Jul 26, 9:57 am, SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
On Jul 26, 2:24 am, "
wrote:



On Jul 26, 1:58 am, Burt wrote:


I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and
kicks them out adds credibility to the race.


Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the
game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do
you think would happen.


If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible.


A lot of these come from sportswriters. Sports writing
is all about suspension of disbelief; even for those
writers that are skeptical, a necessary element of the
craft is to mythologize actions that are meaningful only
because we invest them with significance when played
out against arbitrary rules. In real life, there's
nothing wrong with making part of a 26-mile trip on
the subway; it's only cheating in a marathon, and we
only care because running all the way seems important
by the rules of the game. For the first marathoner
in his run from Marathon, of course there were no rules
and it wasn't a game.


Kicking racers out of the Tour doesn't make the Tour
less credible. It makes people who yesterday were
writing about the heroic achievements of those same
racers seem less credible, and understandably, they
resent it. It's partly their fault for forgetting
that it's only a game. But we the readers eat up the
mythology they feed us, so it's our fault too.


Ben


I always thought the sportswriters were simply dumbasses that had to
write something rather than nothing.

My explanation is simpler, easier to remember, works in theory, and
works in practice. Therefore it is a better model than yours.


Luftmensch,

Your explanation doesn't explain why the sportswriters
write the specific dumbass thing Burt complains about.
I think it is a subset of my explanation, but it is
indeed simpler and easier to remember.

However, the only way to know which of our explanations
is a better model is to see which brings a higher price
on the open market.

Ben

 




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