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#1
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I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour
I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and kicks them out adds credibility to the race. Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do you think would happen. If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible. |
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#2
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I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour
On Jul 26, 1:58 am, Burt wrote:
I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and kicks them out adds credibility to the race. Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do you think would happen. If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible. A lot of these come from sportswriters. Sports writing is all about suspension of disbelief; even for those writers that are skeptical, a necessary element of the craft is to mythologize actions that are meaningful only because we invest them with significance when played out against arbitrary rules. In real life, there's nothing wrong with making part of a 26-mile trip on the subway; it's only cheating in a marathon, and we only care because running all the way seems important by the rules of the game. For the first marathoner in his run from Marathon, of course there were no rules and it wasn't a game. Kicking racers out of the Tour doesn't make the Tour less credible. It makes people who yesterday were writing about the heroic achievements of those same racers seem less credible, and understandably, they resent it. It's partly their fault for forgetting that it's only a game. But we the readers eat up the mythology they feed us, so it's our fault too. Ben |
#3
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I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour
On Jul 26, 4:58 am, Burt wrote:
I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and kicks them out adds credibility to the race. Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do you think would happen. If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible. There are too many cases and no change in the frequency of occurances for credibility to be found here. Your sport is catching those who make mistakes with their doping, thats all. Rasmassen, if he had not been spotted in the Dolomites would have not failed a test. After 5 years of clean tours, you will regain credibilty. Currently the sport of cycling is at a lower point than when Floyd cheated. However so many enthusiasts bury their head in the sand. Each rider left after a doping withdrawel is assumed clean...... |
#4
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I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour
On 26-Jul-2007, smacked up and reeling, Burt blindly
formulated the following incoherence: I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and kicks them out adds credibility to the race. Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do you think would happen. If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible. Two things: 1. Riders affect one anothers performances in a variety of ways. Pulling a rider doesnt undo his effect on the race, so the end result is not the same as if the rider had not started. It's like trying to re-score a baseball game by eliminating one player, the runs he scored or batted-in, the outs, put-outs, errors, etc. that he made. You cant undo the effect of his participation, so the result itself is not credible. It was Rabo pulling all day for a week. What if it had been Disco, Astana, or Lotto? How can a winner be credibly declared now? 2. The drug testing and appeals process itself is not seen as credible by many people. The presumption of guilt, sloppy lab work, and press leaks all give the impression of an unfair and out of control process. All this leaves me (and I assume many others) feeling that the tour is no longer a true athletic test of the participants. steve -- "The accused will now make a bogus statement." James Joyce |
#5
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I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour
On Jul 26, 6:16 am, wrote:
Your sport is catching those who make mistakes with their doping, thats all. You forgot ruining careers, driving out sponsors, and so forth. Rasmassen, if he had not been spotted in the Dolomites would have not failed a test. He didn't fail any tests, whether or not he was actually "spotted" in the Dolomites. Jailhouse testimony automatically taken as truth? After 5 years of clean tours, you will regain credibilty. Not ever, if they're only catching those who don't cheat well, per your comment above. Currently the sport of cycling is at a lower point than when Floyd cheated. As leaked from the lab that couldn't shoot straight? The test that showed the sample to be contaminated? You've been reading ahead in your magic book so you know what the outcome of adjudication is going to be before the rest of us? However so many enthusiasts bury their head in the sand. What does "bury their head in the sand" mean in plain English? What percentage of enthusiasts do you think have "buried their heads"? Each rider left after a doping withdrawel is assumed clean...... That's just throwing more dirt. What sport did or do you compete in, again? --D-y |
#6
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I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour
anton2468 wrote:
However so many enthusiasts bury their head in the sand. Each rider left after a doping withdrawel is assumed clean...... Dumbass, Most of us are aware that they dope but we don't really care. |
#7
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I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour
On Jul 26, 2:24 am, "
wrote: On Jul 26, 1:58 am, Burt wrote: I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and kicks them out adds credibility to the race. Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do you think would happen. If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible. A lot of these come from sportswriters. Sports writing is all about suspension of disbelief; even for those writers that are skeptical, a necessary element of the craft is to mythologize actions that are meaningful only because we invest them with significance when played out against arbitrary rules. In real life, there's nothing wrong with making part of a 26-mile trip on the subway; it's only cheating in a marathon, and we only care because running all the way seems important by the rules of the game. For the first marathoner in his run from Marathon, of course there were no rules and it wasn't a game. Kicking racers out of the Tour doesn't make the Tour less credible. It makes people who yesterday were writing about the heroic achievements of those same racers seem less credible, and understandably, they resent it. It's partly their fault for forgetting that it's only a game. But we the readers eat up the mythology they feed us, so it's our fault too. Ben I always thought the sportswriters were simply dumbasses that had to write something rather than nothing. My explanation is simpler, easier to remember, works in theory, and works in practice. Therefore it is a better model than yours. |
#8
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I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour
On Jul 26, 4:16 am, wrote:
Your sport is catching those who make mistakes with their doping, thats all. WTF is all this "your" sport and "our" sport bull****? |
#9
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I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour
On Jul 26, 6:41 am, "steve" wrote:
All this leaves me (and I assume many others) feeling that the tour is no longer a true athletic test of the participants. No true athlete would dope. No true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman |
#10
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I don't understand the "lack of credibility" comments about the tour
On Jul 26, 9:57 am, SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
On Jul 26, 2:24 am, " wrote: On Jul 26, 1:58 am, Burt wrote: I anything, the fact that cycling actually catches drug cheats and kicks them out adds credibility to the race. Imagine if, in football, soccer, baseball, hockey, etc., after the game you handed everyone on the winning team a cup to pee in. What do you think would happen. If anything, the doping controversy makes cycling MORE credible. A lot of these come from sportswriters. Sports writing is all about suspension of disbelief; even for those writers that are skeptical, a necessary element of the craft is to mythologize actions that are meaningful only because we invest them with significance when played out against arbitrary rules. In real life, there's nothing wrong with making part of a 26-mile trip on the subway; it's only cheating in a marathon, and we only care because running all the way seems important by the rules of the game. For the first marathoner in his run from Marathon, of course there were no rules and it wasn't a game. Kicking racers out of the Tour doesn't make the Tour less credible. It makes people who yesterday were writing about the heroic achievements of those same racers seem less credible, and understandably, they resent it. It's partly their fault for forgetting that it's only a game. But we the readers eat up the mythology they feed us, so it's our fault too. Ben I always thought the sportswriters were simply dumbasses that had to write something rather than nothing. My explanation is simpler, easier to remember, works in theory, and works in practice. Therefore it is a better model than yours. Luftmensch, Your explanation doesn't explain why the sportswriters write the specific dumbass thing Burt complains about. I think it is a subset of my explanation, but it is indeed simpler and easier to remember. However, the only way to know which of our explanations is a better model is to see which brings a higher price on the open market. Ben |
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