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  #171  
Old October 31st 17, 01:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,026
Default California's Fires

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 10/26/2017 6:26 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 11:36:48 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

P.S. I just came across this on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA

Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are
going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and
use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so
severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with
you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would
know what to do?

So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these
things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more
convenient method available.

Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people
subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting
themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose,
and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and
mentally.

The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily
recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just
stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a
person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special
training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched
the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer.

The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing
products approved, and too easy to milk government protected
intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery.
--

Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature
that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an
epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be
trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry
medication and hypos.

Training that is used seldom or never is difficult. Anyone regularly
going into anaphylactic shock is probably not long for the world. Most
of those carrying epipens rarely have to use them, almost all are
probably replaced unused, when they pass their expiration date.

Should we all stock fire extinguishers that have to be loaded just before
they're used?

Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that
someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating
some of John's Thai food?

I don't, but medical or quasi-medical offices, eg dental offices, do
keep epipens on the off chance that a patient will require them. A nice
market to abuse. Would you rather a dental hygienist had to try to
look up or remember the right dosage of epinephrine, locate it, put it
in a syringe, and inject, or just stab a ready-made device into some
patient going into shock?


In my small experience with seeing people go into shock it was a
food allergy and took 20 minutes to get full blown and the victim
was already in the hospital and treated.


Our former next-door-neighbor always carried an epi-pen in the back
yard. Supposedly, he had almost died once from a bee sting. I got the
impression that for him, the reaction was quite quick.


That was my experience. Three years ago my wife and I decided to keep
bees. Bees are about as low maintenance as any livestock can be, are
good for the garden, fun to watch. There is an active community of
amateur beekeepers in our area, so it's easy to get advice, borrow
equipment, and so forth.

So we put together a hive, and ordered a package of bees. When it
arrived, I had never been stung by a honeybee, although I had often
played with them as a child. They were in a mood, and by the time they
were installed I had been stung several times, and bailed out of my
overalls before I got to our back door. Both of us were stung a few
times that year, it's something you have to expect. Our hive failed to
thrive (we probably lost at least one queen), and it died that winter.

So we read E. B. White's "Death of a Pig", and resolved to try again.
Our next colony seemed a bit more aggresive in defending themselves,
which we took for a good sign. Again, both of us were stung a few
times, with the normal results: pain, swelling, and itching. Not that
big a deal. At one point my wife managed to get herself stung near the
eye, which swelled more or less shut. Still pretty normal.

One day last August I rode home from work, and went upstairs to take a
shower. My wife said she had been stung, and felt a little odd. She
showed me her forearms, which had hives. In my small experience hives
were something that came and went away spontaneously, so I told her
"you're not going to die", and I took a quick shower. I'm sure it was
less than five minutes, because I was a little worried.

When I looked out the window, I saw flashing lights. She had begun to
feel a great deal worse, called 911, and gone to sit on a bench at the
front of the house. Fortunately the ambulance was there in two minutes
or so, and they found her in the tripod position, vomiting on the lawn.

They gave her two epipens, loaded her in the ambulance, and took her to
ER. I followed, and when I got there everything seemed under control,
the ER doctor patiently explained what she was doing, why my wife was
shivering (loads of epinephrine) and so forth. Then they tried to get
her to change position, she started coughing or retching, and her blood
pressure fell way too far.

Suddenly there were a lot of people in the room, all throwing stuff on
the floor (how do they avoid tripping on it?), doing this, that or the
other thing, and looking suddenly concerned. I did my best to stay out
of the way. They were just preparing to intubate when they got the
blood pressure more or less under control.

Eventually my wife was fine, although she stayed in the ER that night,
and in the hospital for two more nights, and felt a bit puny for months.

The first allergic reaction took no more than 10 minutes from sting to
full blown anaphylactic shock. They told us the next one would be
considerably quicker. They prescribed her to carry two epipens, and, if
stung, to immediately inject one and call 911. One epipen was expected
just to provide time enough to get to the hospital.

Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're
not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy
treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two
bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life
threatening problem.

We gave the hive away to our beekeeping mentor. I helped him load it
into his car, and surprised myself by how sad I was to see it go.

We heard the colony died last winter as well.

The really odd part of the story is, he loved bees and had a beehive
in the far back corner. But he had a friend do the major tending
chores.


--
Ads
  #172  
Old October 31st 17, 02:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,967
Default California's Fires

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:42:58 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, October 29, 2017 at 8:21:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 10:08:36 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 6:19:55 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 14:27:30 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 1:10:06 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 8:28:53 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 2:32:32 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 13:40:04 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 12:26:01 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 11:25:36 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:53:24 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:29:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 12:21:14 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:06:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/24/2017 9:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:42:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/24/2017 10:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:


an old observation but still true:
Under capitalism, it's man against man.
Under enlightened communism, it's the other way around.

I'd say that under modern American capitalism, it's billion dollar
corporation against man.

Probably true. But what is the alternate? Or perhaps, what is a
politically viable alternate?

It is tough to envision an alternative, especially a near-term one. The
fact is, large corporations have money to affect the election process in
ways that no individuals can hope counter.

Current Ohio example: Issue Two in this next election will involve
prices for pharmaceuticals. The measure is badly written in some ways,
but the essence is that no state agency should pay more for
pharmaceuticals than the prices negotiated by the Veteran's
Administration. (The VA is allowed to negotiate and does, just as do the
medical sytems in Canada, Britain, France, etc. and as a result they pay
FAR less.)

What I find interesting that in some countries.... (strangely Thailand
comes to mind :-) the price of certain, perhaps most, pharmaceuticals
is lower, sometimes much lower then in other countries. Sometimes very
near by.

I remember, after I retired and living in Thailand, I visited a
doctor in Singapore and mentioned that I could buy medicines in
Thailand cheaper then in Singapore. The doctor replied that I didn't
need to go all the way to Thailand, "just cross the causeway to
Malaysia".

In the U.S. I read about people crossing the border to Canada or
Mexico to buy medicine.

Granted that the cost of doing business is higher in the U.S., but
still.

As I said, there are problems with this issue. But it's amazing to watch
the tidal waves of advertising the pharmaceutical companies are funding
to have it defeated. Ads on TV are at least 10 to 1 against it. They are
spending fortunes in their efforts. Why? Because they have the money to
do so, and they want to keep getting that money.


Of course, but no different then any other company. Everybody knows
that Chevrolet is better then a Ford. Says so, right there on the T.V.
:-)

And of course, the ads are very misleading - such as "defeat it because
it doesn't cover 3/4 of Ohioans!" Right, because it applies only to
state agencies, and most don't get their medications that way.

Other examples abound. But when an industry like this has unlimited
money to spend, they can pretty much buy what they want.

Note to non-USians: The USA is one of only two developed nations where
drug companies can, and do, market prescription medications directly to
consumers; as in "Tell your doctor you want THIS prescription drug!" As
a result, TV ads are almost totally dominated by prescription medicine
ads and, of course, motor vehicle ads.

The cost of medicine outside of the US isn't any sort of comparison to those sold in the USA where most of the funding for medicine development occurs.

Not to mention that many medications are counterfeited outside of the USA and a great many of them are ineffective. I can tell the difference between my anti-convulsive mediation made by different manufacturers here.

Much of the research is done by foreign drug makers. My wife's drug was developed by Hoffman-LaRoche in Switzerland in the 1950s. It is typically prescribed to patients with Huntington's disease but is also used for other chorea disorders. Drugs purchased from legitimate Canadian pharmacies are typically the same brands available in the US or safe and effective generics from foreign manufacturers. This is not like buying fake Viagra from China via the internet.

There is no reason CMS should pay extortive prices for orphan or branded drugs available in Canada or Europe for a small fraction of the price -- except to pad the pockets of domestic sellers. The tax code already rewards manufacturers and others with depreciating intellectual property. No need to pay twice.

The USA does 43.7% of pharmaceutical research and development. ONE country does this out of 195 countries. And MANY of the drugs that are sold by competing foreign firms were developed in the US and were immediately copied the second that the patents ran out.

The company with the largest R&D budget is Swiss. The fact that a large number of drugs are patented by US companies also does not mean they were in fact developed in the US, particularly with the world-wide operations of most US drug manufacturers. Also, see
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866602/

Also, nobody is contending that US companies don't produce a lot of new "NME" (new molecular entities), but that does not mean US drug manufacturers should be allowed to price gouge or that CMS should not be allowed to negotiate prices. The US also makes a lot of cars, but that doesn't mean the GSA shouldn't negotiate the price of fleet vehicles -- or computers or durable medical equipment. Why should drugs be different? WalMart does it. Other health plans do it. Why not Medicare? http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/18/wa...-medicare.html

The largest drug company in the world is Roche and they have the largest R&D budget and almost ALL of their companies are American.

Nope. Johnson & Johnson with 2016 revenues of 71.89 billion dollars is
the largest Pharmaceutical company in the world while Roche, which is
a Swiss company, had 2016 revenues of only 50.11 billion.


So why are you using an example of a holding company that has gone to a tax haven?

J&J isn't a drug company per se'. They manufacture medical devices and consumer goods which is where the vast majority of their money comes from.

Roche is an American company that moved to the tax haven of Switzerland. Calling them a Swiss company when they are nothing more than a holding company for American pharmaceutical companies is false advertising.

NO IT ISN'T. ROCHE IS A SWISS COMPANY AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. I REPEAT: ROCHE . . . SWISS. EOM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoffmann-La_Roche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Hoffmann-La_Roche

-- Jay Beattie.

Continue telling me all about them when I worked for Genentech.

Genentech is a U.S. company that was fully acquired by Roche in 2009,
some 113 years after Roche was initially formed, as a Swiss company.

If they are making all or most of their money off of American companies they are nothing more than a Swiss holding company.


Sort of like Harley Davidson is a Thai company.... after all they
recently opened a factory in Rayong.

By the way, the move comes after Trump's decision to pull out of the
12-country Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade deal, which would
have abolished tariffs on Harley products across 40 per cent of the
world's economy.

In other words, if I gotta pay big money to export American made goods
I'll just build a factory where I don't have to do that.


So you think that Harley is going to be built in Thailand and not simply assembled.


Regardless, it is going to have a label that reads, "Product of
Thailand". Just exactly as "Ford Thailand" and "Chevrolet Thailand"
and "Honda Thailand" and "Mercedes Thailand" do.

By the way, Harley organized their first overseas plant in Manaus,
Brazil, taking advantage of the free economic zone there in 1998.
Almost 20 years ago.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #173  
Old October 31st 17, 01:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,345
Default California's Fires

On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:36:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:

Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're
not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy
treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two
bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life
threatening problem.


I've heard that 90% of the honeybee hives have been africanized at this point. And that they are a lot more aggressive.
  #176  
Old October 31st 17, 04:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,345
Default California's Fires

On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 9:09:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/31/2017 9:28 AM, wrote:
On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:36:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:

Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're
not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy
treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two
bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life
threatening problem.


I've heard that 90% of the honeybee hives have been africanized at this point.


Sorry, Tom, but that too is not true.

You know, a lot of these things are pretty easy to look up. They have
this "google" thing...


And as usual you get your information from Google and not the actual source.

Radey says that Africanized bees are only in warmer areas and yet he is getting many stings - my cousins kept bees, only wore protective netting on their faces and never got stung - and he also talks about hives dying.

This doesn't ring any bells with your formal education does it? Go google that jackass. Or better yet try Snopes who claim to be politically neutral and yet most of their staff have worked for Democrat campaigns.
  #177  
Old October 31st 17, 07:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,026
Default California's Fires

writes:

On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 9:09:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/31/2017 9:28 AM,
wrote:
On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:36:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:

Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're
not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy
treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two
bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life
threatening problem.

I've heard that 90% of the honeybee hives have been africanized at
this point.


Sorry, Tom, but that too is not true.

You know, a lot of these things are pretty easy to look up. They have
this "google" thing...


And as usual you get your information from Google and not the actual source.

Radey says that Africanized bees are only in warmer areas and yet he
is getting many stings - my cousins kept bees, only wore protective
netting on their faces and never got stung - and he also talks about
hives dying.


I said that if you kept bees you would get stung. That is true for all
strains of bees. I only ever wore a hat, veil and gloves, never bought
the whole suit because it did not seem necessary. Hives are dying, but
their survival was never assured, particularly during long winters.
Parasites, in particular the varroa mite, are a big contributor to
mortality.

This doesn't ring any bells with your formal education does it? Go
google that jackass. Or better yet try Snopes who claim to be
politically neutral and yet most of their staff have worked for
Democrat campaigns.


Perhaps you and Frank should get a room of your own?

--
  #178  
Old October 31st 17, 08:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 5,880
Default California's Fires

On 10/31/2017 3:13 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 9:09:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/31/2017 9:28 AM,
wrote:
On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:36:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:

Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're
not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy
treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two
bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life
threatening problem.

I've heard that 90% of the honeybee hives have been africanized at
this point.

Sorry, Tom, but that too is not true.

You know, a lot of these things are pretty easy to look up. They have
this "google" thing...


And as usual you get your information from Google and not the actual source.

Radey says that Africanized bees are only in warmer areas and yet he
is getting many stings - my cousins kept bees, only wore protective
netting on their faces and never got stung - and he also talks about
hives dying.


I said that if you kept bees you would get stung. That is true for all
strains of bees. I only ever wore a hat, veil and gloves, never bought
the whole suit because it did not seem necessary. Hives are dying, but
their survival was never assured, particularly during long winters.
Parasites, in particular the varroa mite, are a big contributor to
mortality.


I have a brother who kept bees. We have some interesting photos of him
installing his first bees in his first hive. He was suited up in full
regalia, brushing the mail order bees into the hive. I was standing
about six feet away in shorts and a tee shirt, handing him tools.

I don't think he ever got stung, but he was very cautious, and sadly,
gave up after one year after his hive died,and he learned that half the
hives in his area died.


This doesn't ring any bells with your formal education does it? Go
google that jackass. Or better yet try Snopes who claim to be
politically neutral and yet most of their staff have worked for
Democrat campaigns.


Perhaps you and Frank should get a room of your own?


No thanks.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #179  
Old November 1st 17, 02:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default California's Fires

On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 12:13:33 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 9:09:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/31/2017 9:28 AM,
wrote:
On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:36:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:

Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're
not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy
treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two
bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life
threatening problem.

I've heard that 90% of the honeybee hives have been africanized at
this point.

Sorry, Tom, but that too is not true.

You know, a lot of these things are pretty easy to look up. They have
this "google" thing...


And as usual you get your information from Google and not the actual source.

Radey says that Africanized bees are only in warmer areas and yet he
is getting many stings - my cousins kept bees, only wore protective
netting on their faces and never got stung - and he also talks about
hives dying.


I said that if you kept bees you would get stung. That is true for all
strains of bees. I only ever wore a hat, veil and gloves, never bought
the whole suit because it did not seem necessary. Hives are dying, but
their survival was never assured, particularly during long winters.
Parasites, in particular the varroa mite, are a big contributor to
mortality.

This doesn't ring any bells with your formal education does it? Go
google that jackass. Or better yet try Snopes who claim to be
politically neutral and yet most of their staff have worked for
Democrat campaigns.


Perhaps you and Frank should get a room of your own?


Radey - what is an "africanized" bee? Well, the TECHNICAL definition is that they have both DNA, physical and hormonal differences from the standard honey bee. Some 60% of bees in the wild fit all of these standards.

However almost all of the bees in the US below the 37th parallel have at least one of these traits. The one outstanding identifying trait is that they do not survive in cold weather that normal American honey bees do.

Frank loves to use Google to gain his knowledge instead of having a family of farmers that have to hire bee keepers to pollinate crops. It's that "formal education" sort of thing.
  #180  
Old November 2nd 17, 06:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 6,374
Default California's Fires


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