Component upgrade - DA10 or SRAM Red

I have a 2002 Litespeed Sable with full DA9. Well, the time has come
to upgrade.
I'm deciding between DA10 and the new SRAM Red. I've read tons of
reviews and
know most of the differences. So I guess I'm asking, on a personal
opinion level,
what do other people think?

The key things I note a

* I will be using bar end shifters either way, so the shifter quality
and function
doesn't really matter
* I won't be using a compact crankset - in fact, I may be getting
something like
a Zipp Vuka crank setup - so I think the Red FD should be ok
* I am sort of into the idea of getting 7 extra watts due to the
ceramic bearings...
* I probably won't be getting the Red brake calipers no matter what
due to what
I've read - maybe Brew? Or DA10?
* I had my last DA components for 10 years, but I'm ok with keeping
these parts
for like 3 years this time around
* my main goal is to go faster! I am not factoring in longevity as
much, and if it
comes down to $300 more, it might suck when I pay, but if it means
I'm going
to go faster, then it'll be worth it later

Any thoughts? The ol' DA10 vs. SRAM Red question!

sftriman wrote:
I have a 2002 Litespeed Sable with full DA9. Well, the time has come
to upgrade.
I'm deciding between DA10 and the new SRAM Red. I've read tons of
reviews and
know most of the differences. So I guess I'm asking, on a personal
opinion level,
what do other people think?

The key things I note a

* I will be using bar end shifters either way, so the shifter quality
and function
doesn't really matter
* I won't be using a compact crankset - in fact, I may be getting
something like
a Zipp Vuka crank setup - so I think the Red FD should be ok
* I am sort of into the idea of getting 7 extra watts due to the
ceramic bearings...
* I probably won't be getting the Red brake calipers no matter what
due to what
I've read - maybe Brew? Or DA10?
* I had my last DA components for 10 years, but I'm ok with keeping
these parts
for like 3 years this time around
* my main goal is to go faster! I am not factoring in longevity as
much, and if it
comes down to $300 more, it might suck when I pay, but if it means
I'm going
to go faster, then it'll be worth it later

Any thoughts? The ol' DA10 vs. SRAM Red question!

cT = 0.999

for the 0.001, d-a is cold forged - the ultimate quality for aluminum parts.

On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:09:55 -0800 (PST), sftriman
wrote:

I have a 2002 Litespeed Sable with full DA9. Well, the time has come
to upgrade.
I'm deciding between DA10 and the new SRAM Red. I've read tons of
reviews and
know most of the differences. So I guess I'm asking, on a personal
opinion level,
what do other people think?

The key things I note a

* I will be using bar end shifters either way, so the shifter quality
and function
doesn't really matter
* I won't be using a compact crankset - in fact, I may be getting
something like
a Zipp Vuka crank setup - so I think the Red FD should be ok
* I am sort of into the idea of getting 7 extra watts due to the
ceramic bearings...
* I probably won't be getting the Red brake calipers no matter what
due to what
I've read - maybe Brew? Or DA10?
* I had my last DA components for 10 years, but I'm ok with keeping
these parts
for like 3 years this time around
* my main goal is to go faster! I am not factoring in longevity as
much, and if it
comes down to $300 more, it might suck when I pay, but if it means
I'm going
to go faster, then it'll be worth it later

Any thoughts? The ol' DA10 vs. SRAM Red question!

Dear S,

You might want to look into those 7 alleged watts a little further.

One way would be to search the RBT archives for "ceramic bearings" and
browse some old debates about the likelihood of reducing bearing drag
on bicycles:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...t=0&scoring=d&

Another way would be to play with a bicycle speed calculator and see
how much speed increase 0 to 7 watts is likely to bring you:
http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.html

For 250 versus 257 watts on the drops with 0.004 Crr "tubulars" on the
flats, that side-by-side calculator predicts 23.47 versus 23.71 mph,
about 1/4 mph.

For the more likely 250 watts with grade 25 ball bearings versus 250
watts with ceramic bearings . . .

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

"sftriman" wrote in message
...
I have a 2002 Litespeed Sable with full DA9. Well, the time has come
to upgrade.
I'm deciding between DA10 and the new SRAM Red. I've read tons of
reviews and
know most of the differences. So I guess I'm asking, on a personal
opinion level,
what do other people think?

The key things I note a

* I will be using bar end shifters either way, so the shifter quality
and function
doesn't really matter
* I won't be using a compact crankset - in fact, I may be getting
something like
a Zipp Vuka crank setup - so I think the Red FD should be ok
* I am sort of into the idea of getting 7 extra watts due to the
ceramic bearings...
* I probably won't be getting the Red brake calipers no matter what
due to what
I've read - maybe Brew? Or DA10?
* I had my last DA components for 10 years, but I'm ok with keeping
these parts
for like 3 years this time around
* my main goal is to go faster! I am not factoring in longevity as
much, and if it
comes down to $300 more, it might suck when I pay, but if it means
I'm going
to go faster, then it'll be worth it later

Any thoughts? The ol' DA10 vs. SRAM Red question!

I haven't looked into SRAM bar end shifters, but keep in mind that you
cannot run DuraAce shifters with a SRAM rear derailleur, due to
different actuation ratios. And definitely take those wattages-saved
figures with a healthy grain of salt. They assume ideal conditions and
reflect how things work when new. Ceramic bearings don't have the
lifespan of their carbon-steel counterparts (one major manufacturer's
tests showed significant deterioration at 400,000 revolutions vs
1,200,000 for the same wear on a carbon-steel bearing) and part of the
trick to getting lower friction is due to seals that don't seal as well
(which is partly what leads to the reduced lifespan).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

On Feb 28, 6:09*pm, sftriman wrote:
I have a 2002 Litespeed Sable with full DA9. *Well, the time has come
to upgrade.
I'm deciding between DA10 and the new SRAM Red. *I've read tons of
reviews and
know most of the differences. *So I guess I'm asking, on a personal
opinion level,
what do other people think?

The key things I note a

* I will be using bar end shifters either way, so the shifter quality
and function
* doesn't really matter
* I won't be using a compact crankset - in fact, I may be getting
something like
* a Zipp Vuka crank setup - so I think the Red FD should be ok
* I am sort of into the idea of getting 7 extra watts due to the
ceramic bearings...
* I probably won't be getting the Red brake calipers no matter what
due to what
* I've read - maybe Brew? *Or DA10?
* I had my last DA components for 10 years, but I'm ok with keeping
these parts
* for like 3 years this time around
* my main goal is to go faster! *I am not factoring in longevity as
much, and if it
* comes down to $300 more, it might suck when I pay, but if it means
I'm going
* to go faster, then it'll be worth it later

Any thoughts? *The ol' DA10 vs. SRAM Red question!

Get DA(since you want barends), forget ceramc, poor place to spend $.
Use the DA crank, better place for the $ than the wildly overpriced
Zipp thing. Use the DA calipers, best there is. If your main goal is
'going faster', be sure to look at the engine, not the sheetmetal.

On Feb 28, 11:37*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
"sftriman" wrote in message

...



I have a 2002 Litespeed Sable with full DA9. *Well, the time has come
toupgrade.
I'm deciding between DA10 and the newSRAMRed. *I've read tons of
reviews and
know most of the differences. *So I guess I'm asking, on a personal
opinion level,
what do other people think?

The key things I note a

* I will be using bar end shifters either way, so the shifter quality
and function
*doesn't really matter
* I won't be using a compact crankset - in fact, I may be getting
something like
*a Zipp Vuka crank setup - so I think theRedFD should be ok
* I am sort of into the idea of getting 7 extra watts due to the
ceramic bearings...
* I probably won't be getting theRedbrake calipers no matter what
due to what
*I've read - maybe Brew? *Or DA10?
* I had my last DA components for 10 years, but I'm ok with keeping
these parts
*for like 3 years this time around
* my main goal is to go faster! *I am not factoring in longevity as
much, and if it
*comes down to $300 more, it might suck when I pay, but if it means
I'm going
*to go faster, then it'll be worth it later

Any thoughts? *The ol' DA10 vs.SRAMRedquestion!

I haven't looked intoSRAMbar end shifters, but keep in mind that you
cannot run DuraAce shifters with aSRAMrear derailleur, due to
different actuation ratios. And definitely take those wattages-saved
figures with a healthy grain of salt. They assume ideal conditions and
reflect how things work when new. Ceramic bearings don't have the
lifespan of their carbon-steel counterparts (one major manufacturer's
tests showed significant deterioration at 400,000 revolutions vs
1,200,000 for the same wear on a carbon-steel bearing) and part of the
trick to getting lower friction is due to seals that don't seal as well
(which is partly what leads to the reduced lifespan).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Thanks for the advice - to everyone. I'm going with DA 7900 with a
few switches here and there, like using Feather Brakes. And I'm
going to fly this season!

David