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#31
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Horst link bending forces
On Mon, 05 Feb 2018 01:26:10 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: FWIW, the fork that broke on our tandem was Reynolds 531. BTW I've heard that number (531) doesn't specify some property of the steel but is a designation/name so one can refer to the product. 531 is a specific alloy which the maker has probably legally protected so that no one else can use the name. For that matter most metal designations, even if not copyrighted, are only general designations for the main alloying element. If you talk about chrome-molly steel, for example you are actually talking about the SAE 41xx family of alloys which may contain from 0.40 - 0.90% Chromium and 0.08 - 0.65% Molybdenum, among other elements with a maximum strength of from -- Cheers, John B. |
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#32
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Horst link bending forces
John B. wrote:
531 is a specific alloy which the maker has probably legally protected so that no one else can use the name. This seems to be very common in the chemical product industry as well, with CRC 5-56, WD-40, CHF 11S, and so on. I suppose they made small changes and were fiddling with the exact constitution until they got it just right? WD-40 is perhaps attempt 40 just like a computer program has version x.y.z for major.minor.patch revise number. As for materials, aluminium/aluminum 6061-T6 is another "alloy designation" I'm aware of... -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#33
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Horst link bending forces
On Mon, 05 Feb 2018 04:02:12 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: John B. wrote: 531 is a specific alloy which the maker has probably legally protected so that no one else can use the name. This seems to be very common in the chemical product industry as well, with CRC 5-56, WD-40, CHF 11S, and so on. I suppose they made small changes and were fiddling with the exact constitution until they got it just right? WD-40 is perhaps attempt 40 just like a computer program has version x.y.z for major.minor.patch revise number. I think it is pretty much a fact of modern life. Try build and selling a Mercedes automobile :-) Or even labeling something as "Made in U.S.A." As for materials, aluminium/aluminum 6061-T6 is another "alloy designation" I'm aware of... I'd hope that you would be aware of 6061 aluminum alloy. It was first introduced in 1935 :-) "6061" refers to the alloy while "T6" refers to the "temper" and is the strongest of the 6061 group. -- Cheers, John B. |
#34
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Horst link bending forces
On 2/4/2018 9:02 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
John B. wrote: 531 is a specific alloy which the maker has probably legally protected so that no one else can use the name. This seems to be very common in the chemical product industry as well, with CRC 5-56, WD-40, CHF 11S, and so on. I suppose they made small changes and were fiddling with the exact constitution until they got it just right? WD-40 is perhaps attempt 40 just like a computer program has version x.y.z for major.minor.patch revise number. As for materials, aluminium/aluminum 6061-T6 is another "alloy designation" I'm aware of... 6061 is a material, T6 is a tempered (rapid aging) hardness state. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#35
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Horst link bending forces
On 2018-02-04 16:46, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/4/2018 7:26 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: FWIW, the fork that broke on our tandem was Reynolds 531. BTW I've heard that number (531) doesn't specify some property of the steel but is a designation/name so one can refer to the product. Yes. It's the name given by the Reynolds company to a particular alloy of their steel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_531 And here I thought they made cigarettes ... -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#36
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Horst link bending forces
John B. wrote:
I think it is pretty much a fact of modern life. Try build and selling a Mercedes automobile :-) Or even labeling something as "Made in U.S.A." This brings up the question, when you say a bike is from some year, or some country, what exactly does this refer to? With a brand, it is easy, but with the actual product I mean? Perhaps, in the order of relative weight to the answer, 1. frame and fork 2. wheels 3. contact points (bar, saddle, pedals) 4. components? Design? Only if it is in any way radical or have any groundbreaking ideas or concepts. As for point (1) and the Crescent case, what if the tubes and lugs are from one place, only wielded someplace else? I'd say the material gets the upper hand in such cases. For example, they put together Nishiki bikes in Gothenburg from Japanese (or Taiwanese most likely) material. I would consider such a bike Taiwanese, Japanese, and Swedish as a very distant third, assuming it was actually put together in Gothenburg and not entirely in Taiwan or some other part of the world. I'd hope that you would be aware of 6061 aluminum alloy. It was first introduced in 1935 :-) -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#37
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Horst link bending forces
On 2/5/2018 10:23 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
John B. wrote: I think it is pretty much a fact of modern life. Try build and selling a Mercedes automobile :-) Or even labeling something as "Made in U.S.A." This brings up the question, when you say a bike is from some year, or some country, what exactly does this refer to? With a brand, it is easy, but with the actual product I mean? Perhaps, in the order of relative weight to the answer, 1. frame and fork 2. wheels 3. contact points (bar, saddle, pedals) 4. components? Design? Only if it is in any way radical or have any groundbreaking ideas or concepts. As for point (1) and the Crescent case, what if the tubes and lugs are from one place, only wielded someplace else? I'd say the material gets the upper hand in such cases. For example, they put together Nishiki bikes in Gothenburg from Japanese (or Taiwanese most likely) material. I would consider such a bike Taiwanese, Japanese, and Swedish as a very distant third, assuming it was actually put together in Gothenburg and not entirely in Taiwan or some other part of the world. I'd hope that you would be aware of 6061 aluminum alloy. It was first introduced in 1935 :-) Nishiki may be a poor example. That's a US brand, frames made by Kawamura in Osaka with components various Japanese suppliers. It's considered a Japanese bicycle. If they licensed the name to someone in Gothenburg I am unaware of that. A complete bike is normally attributed to the framebuilder, that is, a classic Masi frame(Milano built with British tube & French lugs) sold in Chicago and assembled with Dura Ace is considered an Italian bicycle. Similarly this is a 1923 Ford, Chevy 468 big block notwithstanding: http://newoldcar.com/images/Featured...%20Rod%201.JPG To your question, Crescent are Swedish bicycles even (or especially) when built with Reynolds tube. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#38
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Horst link bending forces
AMuzi wrote:
Nishiki may be a poor example. That's a US brand, frames made by Kawamura in Osaka with components various Japanese suppliers. It's considered a Japanese bicycle. If they licensed the name to someone in Gothenburg I am unaware of that. I think what they do is put everything on complete frames. So this is consistent with your below definition, only I thought it wasn't Japan anymore but Taiwan who were the framebuilders. A complete bike is normally attributed to the framebuilder, that is, a classic Masi frame(Milano built with British tube & French lugs) sold in Chicago and assembled with Dura Ace is considered an Italian bicycle. Right, excellent. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#39
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Horst link bending forces
On 2/5/2018 2:30 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote: Nishiki may be a poor example. That's a US brand, frames made by Kawamura in Osaka with components various Japanese suppliers. It's considered a Japanese bicycle. If they licensed the name to someone in Gothenburg I am unaware of that. I think what they do is put everything on complete frames. So this is consistent with your below definition, only I thought it wasn't Japan anymore but Taiwan who were the framebuilders. A complete bike is normally attributed to the framebuilder, that is, a classic Masi frame(Milano built with British tube & French lugs) sold in Chicago and assembled with Dura Ace is considered an Italian bicycle. Right, excellent. My mistake, sorry. I forgot there is a current 'Nishiki', several owners removed from the original organization. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#40
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Horst link bending forces
AMuzi wrote:
Nishiki may be a poor example. That's a US brand, frames made by Kawamura in Osaka with components various Japanese suppliers. It's considered a Japanese bicycle. If they licensed the name to someone in Gothenburg I am unaware of that. I think what they do is put everything on complete frames. So this is consistent with your below definition, only I thought it wasn't Japan anymore but Taiwan who were the framebuilders. A complete bike is normally attributed to the framebuilder, that is, a classic Masi frame(Milano built with British tube & French lugs) sold in Chicago and assembled with Dura Ace is considered an Italian bicycle. Right, excellent. My mistake, sorry. I forgot there is a current 'Nishiki', several owners removed from the original organization. OK, here [1] is an article of their history, in Swedish. There is no mention how they get/do (?) their frames today. There is no mention of Taiwan or carbon but one mention of Japan: ... märket har sina rötter i Kobe i Japan och [...] historien om det svenska Nishiki började redan 1981 på företaget Kawamura med import av landsvägsramar ... which, in a poor-man's translation, is: the brand has its roots in Kobe in Japan and the history of Swedish Nishiki started back in 1981 at the company Kawamura with the import of road bike frames [1] http://www.nishiki.se/om-nishiki/var-historia -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
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