Speed: LWB vs SWB

Jude is a very smart, very knowledgeable recumbent person who also is a serious recumbent rider. He
rides an Aero a LOT and his concerns about the Bacchetta design reflect mine
EXACTLY. IMHO, his comments apply to all two-big-wheel (26/26) recumbents,
although less to the Vision R-65 than to the Aero/Corsa.

These shortcomings, as he observes, are far less applicable to the Lightning
P-38 and Bacchetta Giro designs, which have a 700c or 26 inch rear wheel and
a 20 inch front wheel.

For me, the GRR design remains the most stable, best-handling recumbent.
GRRs are not as fast as the 26/26 designs but for most non-roadies, with a
fairing they are "fast enough".

It remains to be seen if the new Freddy Markham/Calfee all-carbon,
under-26-pound LWB Stiletto changes minds about choosing a SWB or LWB
recumbent for seriously fast riders. I believe the Stiletto may do just that.

Gator Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

---- Original Message -----
From: "Jude T. McGloin"

Handling the Strada in traffic can at times be a bit intimidating. I have
over 5K combo STRADA/AERO and still can find some starts and stops in
traffic where a hill is involved dicey. Comparing a Giro in these
situations to a Strada is like comparing apples and oranges. There is a big
BB height difference. The Giro is more docile.

--
Gator Bob Siegel

Well Robert, I'll be testing your views probably in about a week or so, when
my Aero arrives, at Bike Spot. I'm VERY Dialed in (And LOVE and won't be
parting with) my GRR Ti, BUT just want to really give a SWB, sub 23 lb bike
a try. I also want to ride a bike without the use of a fairing too. Although
I've tried my GRR Ti with out the fairing and it seemed lacking. It just
works better with a fairing)
So once my Aero arrives, I'll be posting some feedback on it, vs. my GRR Ti.
The High Front BB will be an immediate challenge, as I'm at least a 5+ year
front (Easy Racer) LOW BB kind of cyclist.
EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)




"Robert Siegel" wrote in message
...
Jude is a very smart, very knowledgeable recumbent person who also is a
serious recumbent rider. He
rides an Aero a LOT and his concerns about the Bacchetta design reflect mine
EXACTLY. IMHO, his comments apply to all two-big-wheel (26/26) recumbents,
although less to the Vision R-65 than to the Aero/Corsa.

I think the 21-22-23 lb. spec for the Aero might be a tad optimistic - I
have yet to get it to weigh under 24 lbs. on any of the bikeshop scales I've
tried. That's after replacing with a lighter fork and lighter wheels. Of
course, maybe the shops I frequent just have scales that weigh a little
heavy. I see quotes for roadbikes in the 16 lb. range. My
Record-equipped Colnago C40 weighs 18 lbs with Spinergy Xaero wheels, so
take that as a baseline.

It's pretty daggonned light. If it were much lighter I wouldn't feel safe
on it - so I have no complaints - no need to lighten it any further.

I have a Fold Rush, a Gold Rush, and an Aero. The Aero will be a little
faster, but it won't replace your Gold Rush. I think the Gold Rush is
pretty close to being the perfect bike. Don't get me wrong, the Aero is
wonderful, and will make you feel like your legs are 10 years younger,
but....well, you already know what I mean about the Gold Rush, because you
have one.

But the Aero sure has the raw speed.




"EZ Biker :-)" wrote in message
news:HSh_a.132253$YN5.89367@sccrnsc01...
Well Robert, I'll be testing your views probably in about a week or so,
when
my Aero arrives, at Bike Spot. I'm VERY Dialed in (And LOVE and won't be
parting with) my GRR Ti, BUT just want to really give a SWB, sub 23 lb
bike
a try. I also want to ride a bike without the use of a fairing too.
Although
I've tried my GRR Ti with out the fairing and it seemed lacking. It just
works better with a fairing)
So once my Aero arrives, I'll be posting some feedback on it, vs. my GRR
Ti.
The High Front BB will be an immediate challenge, as I'm at least a 5+
year
front (Easy Racer) LOW BB kind of cyclist.
EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)




"Robert Siegel" wrote in message
...
Jude is a very smart, very knowledgeable recumbent person who also is a
serious recumbent rider. He
rides an Aero a LOT and his concerns about the Bacchetta design reflect
mine
EXACTLY. IMHO, his comments apply to all two-big-wheel (26/26)
recumbents,
although less to the Vision R-65 than to the Aero/Corsa.

I predict you will love the Aero because you WILL get the speed you want to
ride with roadies. It'll take a month before you feel at one in any SWB two
big wheel design, though. I truly loved the one-with-my-bike feel of my
P-38 and its climbing speed ... but in the end I decided I simply prefer the
TiGRR's control, handling and comfort.

I wonder if you actually will go back to the Ti GRR. My personal
experience is I ride what I like best ... and my other bikes seem to gather
dust.

"EZ Biker :-)" wrote in message
news:HSh_a.132253$YN5.89367@sccrnsc01...
Well Robert, I'll be testing your views probably in about a week or so,
when
my Aero arrives, at Bike Spot. I'm VERY Dialed in (And LOVE and won't be
parting with) my GRR Ti, BUT just want to really give a SWB, sub 23 lb
bike
a try. I also want to ride a bike without the use of a fairing too.
Although
I've tried my GRR Ti with out the fairing and it seemed lacking. It just
works better with a fairing)
So once my Aero arrives, I'll be posting some feedback on it, vs. my GRR
Ti.
The High Front BB will be an immediate challenge, as I'm at least a 5+
year
front (Easy Racer) LOW BB kind of cyclist.
EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)




"Robert Siegel" wrote in message
...
Jude is a very smart, very knowledgeable recumbent person who also is a
serious recumbent rider. He
rides an Aero a LOT and his concerns about the Bacchetta design reflect
mine
EXACTLY. IMHO, his comments apply to all two-big-wheel (26/26)
recumbents,
although less to the Vision R-65 than to the Aero/Corsa.

Robert, I bought my Strada with the M5 seat about two months ago. I
decided that I had to buy a high racer and ride it alot before making
a final judgement on that style of bike. While I am having fun with
this bike, and while it is FAST, it is a real adjustment for me coming
from a 99 Stratus. The Strada is exteme. The bb is very high and the
head forward position is awkward. Conversely, there is something very
natural about the riding position, stability, and handling of a lwb
low bb bike, particularly the GRR. Weeks before I committed to the
Strada, I test rode a GRR. I needed no adjustment period. It just
fit! I loved it! Yet with a desire to satisfy my curiosity about
high racers and a desire to save $$$, I went with the Strada. And yes
it is a blast! But as I look forward (with no money at this time), I
don't see an Aero. I see a GRR in my future. It's my destiny.

Jim Reilly
Reading, PA

I've tried out a number of recumbents and I found the LWB/low BB bikes
to be very easy to ride. They are probably more natural than even an
UR. However to me they felt slow, and I suspected I would not be
comfortable sitting that upright on a seat for a fast paced ride. I
found that I perfered bikes that really laid back. The more the
better. Once you start getting 35 degrees on the seat you need to
start lowering the seat to allow an easy reach of the ground. So I
ended up with a Baron (~20 degree seat angle and 12" seat height).
However this year I am commuting in an urban area where I don't feel
safe on such a low vehicle. So I wanted a higher seat but I still feel
faster on a laid back high BB bike so now I have a high racer.
I think everyones circumstances are different so the best bike is
probably different. I guess that is why there are so many different
styles of bikes. Someone said they expected highracers to go away
except for a few people but I doubt it. As I see it nearly every
recumbent design that was successful at one time is still being sold
and evolved. We just keep adding different types for different
markets.

Craig


(stratrider) wrote in message om...
Robert, I bought my Strada with the M5 seat about two months ago. I
decided that I had to buy a high racer and ride it alot before making
a final judgement on that style of bike. While I am having fun with
this bike, and while it is FAST, it is a real adjustment for me coming
from a 99 Stratus. The Strada is exteme. The bb is very high and the
head forward position is awkward. Conversely, there is something very
natural about the riding position, stability, and handling of a lwb
low bb bike, particularly the GRR. Weeks before I committed to the
Strada, I test rode a GRR. I needed no adjustment period. It just
fit! I loved it! Yet with a desire to satisfy my curiosity about
high racers and a desire to save $$$, I went with the Strada. And yes
it is a blast! But as I look forward (with no money at this time), I
don't see an Aero. I see a GRR in my future. It's my destiny.

Jim Reilly
Reading, PA

(cbb) wrote in message . com...

...I think everyones circumstances are different so the best bike is
probably different. I guess that is why there are so many different
styles of bikes. Someone said they expected highracers to go away
except for a few people but I doubt it. As I see it nearly every
recumbent design that was successful at one time is still being sold
and evolved. We just keep adding different types for different
markets.

There are recumbents for the performance oriented riders
(wanna-go-fast) and then there are recumbents for the rest of us. I
think the recumbent for the rest of us will eventually turn out to be
a CLWB OSS Low BB. The BikeE showed the way as well as the EZ-1 but
there is going to be a much better such bike coming along one of these
days. Ease of riding (handling) is critical. If there is much of a
learning curve you can forget about it. The high BB SWB will be
relegated to strictly performance cyclists. Most of the rest of us
ride recumbents for fun and exercise and we want to be comfy while
were doing it and we do not want to experience any handling
difficulties. CLWB does it all better than any other type of recumbent
except for the speed thing. Thus Spake Zarathustra!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Cbb wrote:
I think everyones circumstances are different so the best bike is
probably different. I guess that is why there are so many different
styles of bikes. Someone said they expected highracers to go away except
for a few people but I doubt it. As I see it nearly every recumbent
design that was successful at one time is still being sold and evolved.
We just keep adding different types for different markets.



Craig,

You hit the nail on the head for this one. Everyone's ideal bike is not
the same. It is very subjective. While I love SWB and LWB versions of my
Canto, I do not seem to agree with the test rides that I have taken on a
Strada or a Volae. The high BB does not seem to do anything for me.

But I love my Burley and feel very dialed into it. The only thing I want
to add to my stable right now is a tadpole trike.



--
Derek,
Burley Canto

--------------------------
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

Ed, I concur with your prediction. I think someone will eventually
dial in a CLWB with improved geometry, better components, and lighter
weight. It may not be the fastest design but it will be much improved
over current offerings and will climb well also. It will be designed
as a bike for serious riders, just maybe not the most competitive. It
will also be shorter than a school bus.

I look forward to the day when your prediction comes true. Don

(Edward Dolan) wrote in message . com...
(cbb) wrote in message . com...

...I think everyones circumstances are different so the best bike is
probably different. I guess that is why there are so many different
styles of bikes. Someone said they expected highracers to go away
except for a few people but I doubt it. As I see it nearly every
recumbent design that was successful at one time is still being sold
and evolved. We just keep adding different types for different
markets.

There are recumbents for the performance oriented riders
(wanna-go-fast) and then there are recumbents for the rest of us. I
think the recumbent for the rest of us will eventually turn out to be
a CLWB OSS Low BB. The BikeE showed the way as well as the EZ-1 but
there is going to be a much better such bike coming along one of these
days. Ease of riding (handling) is critical. If there is much of a
learning curve you can forget about it. The high BB SWB will be
relegated to strictly performance cyclists. Most of the rest of us
ride recumbents for fun and exercise and we want to be comfy while
were doing it and we do not want to experience any handling
difficulties. CLWB does it all better than any other type of recumbent
except for the speed thing. Thus Spake Zarathustra!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Robert, I've made the MISTAKE of parting with my Easy Racer bikes before,
when I moved onto a new bike. I WON'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE AGAIN! I'm keeping
my GRR Ti and will maintain it and ride it along with the Aero. I think the
Aero is that NEED FOR RAW SPEED, the key word here being RAW.
EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)




"Robert Siegel" wrote in message
news
I predict you will love the Aero because you WILL get the speed you want
to
ride with roadies. It'll take a month before you feel at one in any SWB
two
big wheel design, though.