Evaulating a bike

Michael Press wrote:

Cotton shirts become waterlogged. You will be happier with
something that does not. There are many excellent garments
that people can recommend from experience.

My system works very well and consists of not made for
bicycle gear. A long sleeved, high-neck silk jersey is
very comfortable. It is cool in hot weather and warm in
cool weather. Carries sweat away from the skin and
evaporates it. The jersey is never clammy, and on
down-hills dries immediately and insulates me.

When weather is cold enough I put over the silk jersey a
long sleeved high-neck wool jersey. Add a wind breaker
when the weather is even less temperate. A bicycle
wind-breaker should be a form fit so that it does not flap
and pump away the warm air layer beneath it.

Thanks for the tip. As it happens, I do have a long sleeved silk tee
type shirt which I use as an undergarment for motorcycle riding. I think
it'll work well for my bike riding - I just never considered it.

If others wish to get something like, this, I found it at Cabelas for
surprisingly little money. Apparently hunters use such items.

Paul Cassel wrote:

Now this is a great point and shows how ignorant I am here. I noticed
that my bike's seat is only slightly higher than the bars, but I figured
that was my manner of adjusting the whole thing compared to modern
manners of adjusting. Also not being experienced, I figured they very
high seat / low bar combo was right as it was adjusted by pros at the
LBS. I'm out of seatpost which is why I left mine as is. I thought *I*
was wrong, but I see now due to your post that this is a preference thing.


Seat height is determined by your leg length, not handlebar height. The
seat usually ends up being higher than your handlebars, because leaning
forward is more efficient than sitting up. It is also better to reduce
fatigue if you take long rides. However, some people prefer to sit up
more, especially women.

If you're out of seatpost, you can get a longer seatpost, but a larger
bike might be necessary to get a proper fit.



I definitely do not wish to look the poseur because I can't back that
play. This may cause a laugh from some here, but I wear a tee shirt
instead of a real bike shirt because I don't want to pretend to be what
I'm not.

Wear what you want, not to be a snob or a reverse snob, either. If you
discover the advantages of cycling clothing, then wear it, not because
you're a super cyclist but because you like to wear it. And if you don't
like it, that's fine, too. I often wear street clothes when I ride, even
on long rides.


I also ended up with the seat a bit nose up - something the owner of the
bike questioned, but after messing around with it for a while, I find
this works for me.

The classic racing position is with the nose very, very slightly up. Or
totally level. If it points down, it might mean the seat is too high for
you, and I doubt it is.



OK, it's easy to make fun of me here being a stark new guy, but also I
find it very difficult to believe that experts spend all this money on
wheels to no benefit. Apparently, based on my buddy's talk, the one who
sold the Giordana to him put some junk wheels on the bike to sell it as
a bike rather than a pile of miscellany parts.

Believe it. We are all governed by our emotions to varying degrees,
whether we admit it or not. And we sometimes express our love for our
sport by spending money, and we justify it irrationally. Wheels need to
be durable, and they need to be as light as you can afford them. Light
wheels are nice, but I don't think it's necessary to spend truckloads of
money on wheels. And the recent trends are to sell light wheels that are
not designed to be durable. A fool and his money are easily parted. A
lot of people clamor at the opportunity to spend money, thinking that if
it costs more, it must be better.


That said, I'm unclear on exactly what is wrong with these wheels aside
from perhaps the hubs. If I spin the wheels with the bike in the air,
the wheels stop spinning sooner than a similar spin on my daughters
Cross bike. That could be bad bearings or less of a flywheel effect.


Bearing friction plays no practical role in how your bike rides. The
critical thing is rolling resistance that your tires cause. Get light,
supple tires that accept high pressure, and pump them to 90 or 100 psi.



I have the shoes as I needed pedals for this bike so got some almost
worn out SPD pedals and shoes to match. I needed the pedals that came
with this bike for my daughter's bike. I didn't know any bikes had
fenders any more except for those bikes which look like they come from
the 30's.



Clipless pedals sure are nice, aren't they?

Fenders are actually nice, and it's a very well kept secret in the US.
Yes, you have to pay to get them, since no one wants to buy a bike with
them. But lots of road bikes don't have the eyelets or the clearance to
fit them.




--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy
This email address works, but only for a short time.

Paul Cassel wrote:

Maybe I'm dopey here, but I figure the wheel is the main part & limiter
of a bike like a speaker system is for a hi fi. No matter how good the
bike, crummy wheels make for a crummy bike experience. I figured you put
in your big money in a wheelset for a bike like you put your big money
in speakers for a hi fi.

So I"m wrong?


You're not dopey. Stop selling yourself short.

The component that matters the most is the tires. After that, it's the
frame. Wheels matter only in weight and durability, which, of course,
are at odds with each other, so you have to make a compromise.


--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy
This email address works, but only for a short time.

Paul Cassel wrote:
wrote:
Paul Cassel wrote:



Where did $500 for the wheels come from? I kind of thought the
borrowed biek would come to you sort of complete except for a few
missing parts. If you have to buy a new set of wheels, then I'm not
sure its that great of a deal. Cheap wheelsets that will function well
enough can be had mail order from Nashbar or other mail order places.
Maybe a local shop has some wheels taken off another bike they can sell
cheap. Cheap being the key word here. Assuming the borrowed bike is a
freewheel bike, you should be able to find these wheelsets really
cheap. At the very most a new set of freewheel type wheels should cost
$100. Or less.

The wheels roll for sure. I figured if I could buy this bike cheap, and
have a $1,000 budget for a new bike if I made that decision, then I have
money left over to buy a good wheelset. The owner said the wheels aren't
nearly up to the quality of the rest of the bike. Given that the drive
train / brakes are Dura Ace, which I've learned is the top of the line,
I figured to get the entire bike equal which means a more expensive
wheelset - although I can't tell you what you buy with more outlay. But
I also can't tell you why Dura Ace is so good.

Use the wheels until they self destruct. As long as the poor quality
wheels you currently have are true and the bearings are not binding,
you will never know they are poor quality. Now if for some reason they
do not stay true and break spokes, then replace the wheels. Until
then, don't waste money on new wheels.



I figured you put your big bucks where the interfaces are so the road
interface is the wheels. I also figured the guy who sold the bike to my
buddy took off great wheels which is why the ones on it aren't any good.
They are true (I trued them). I don't know what makes them bad.

The most important interfaces on a bicycle are where the rider and the
bike meet. Saddle. Handlebars/brake levers/shifters. And pedals.
And having low enough gears to comfortably get up any hills you happen
to be climbing. Very important.




The crankset I mentioned comes with 50-34 tooth rings on it. It costs
more money to replace chainrings. Money that could be used to buy a
new bike if you start replacing parts on replacement parts before you
even use them. The 50 will work for most riding around. The 34 will
work very well for any hills.


I think I'll start with a cogset and see how that works. I am ok putting
on parts which I can take off if I can't buy this bike or I choose not
to, but I guess a crank is specific for a bike or I'll buy my new bike
around a crank which I think is silly.

From what you wrote in other posts about being in hilly/mountainous
country and struggling on some hills, changing the cogset to a 28 tooth
large rear cog will not be enough. Assuming your race oriented bike
currently has a 23 tooth big rear cog on the freewheel, going to a new
freewheel with a 28 tooth big rear cog will get you roughly one lower
gear. Not a huge amount if you are really struggling now. You can
cheaply replace the smaller chainring on the crankset with a 38 or 39
tooth chainring. Nashbar has them for 130 mm bolt circle diameter
cranks (Dura Ace). $12.95. Easy to change. Maybe, maybe, maybe
changing the rear freewheel to 28 tooth and the front chainring to 39
will get you a low enough gear to be happy with for awhile.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

The reason for my previous mention of the compact double crankset is it
will get you fairly low gears without having to change anything else on
the bike. And it can be moved to another bike easily.



You can get a very nice road bicycle for $1000. Look for sales at bike
shops or mail order. Its best to know what size you need if ordering
mail order. Probably crucial to know your correct size. That you get
from riding and figuring it out.

http://www.gvhbikes.com/welcome.html I had dealings with the original
Gary V Hobbs. Guessing the new owner is carrying on the good customer
service.

I think given my newness at this point, I'd only buy mail order very
cheaply or from a trusted source. I think I'm an obvious candidate for
the LBS to make a sale.

The parts mentioned above are cheap and functional and easy for you to
install. Might have to have the local bike shop change the freewheel
out.





Cone wrenches to fit the hubs. Use a vernier caliper to figure out the
size of the inner ones. 13/14 and 15/16 and 17 should cover most
things. Traditional crank puller for square taper cranksets. Assuming
that is what is on the bike now. If you get a new crank/bottom bracket
then you will have to get a new crank puller for the new crank (ISIS or
Octalink specific). Bottom bracket hook tool for the locking ring.
Assuming that is the kind of bottom bracket you have now. New style
for a new bottom bracket. Pin spanner to adjust the old bottom
bracket. Headset wrench 32 mm. Freewheel removal tool. Assume
Suntour style with 4 notches. Chain whip. Crescent wrench and metric
wrenches and metric Allen wrenches are also needed but I assume you
have these already.

OK, thanks very much for that list. It seems affordable. I do have all
manner of conventional tools for working on my motorcycles. In fact, I
have a full on shop. What does a chain whip do? The only thing I know
about that I'd call a chain whip is a pipe wrench sort of affair.

Look at mail order places and the Park Tools website to see examples of
the various tools I mentioned. Chain whip is needed to get a freewheel
or cassette (rear cogset) off a bike. And you need a chain tool. But
if you have mountain bikes you probably already have this.





Cheap dual pivot brakes can be head from Nashbar that will work fine.
Lots of power and easy to squeeze. Cheap too.


I never thought of that. I'll check.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=






If you knew what you were doing you could probably replace a few parts
and get by cheap. But if you have to replace quite a few parts the
owner takes for himself and then pay for what is left and then replace
a few more to make it satisfactory for you to ride, .... You might be
close to half or more of the cost of a new bike.

If I knew what I was doing, I'd be giving instead of soliciting
advice here. I've probably learned more from this thread about bike
mechanicals than I have in my few months of road riding including
reading many magazines.

I don't mind putting in some parts that the owner takes with him if we
don't come to a bargain. After all, I AM getting use from this bike so
some rental in the form of my improving it is not only reasonable, but
something I'd like to do. After all, I'm wearing out HIS machine.

-paul

The parts I mentioned can be taken off by you and the old ones put back
on. No need to lose the parts if you don't end up with the bike.

Here is my final recommendation to you.
1. New 39 tooth chainring for the crankset for $12.95 from Nashbar.
Easy to put on yourself. No other bike modifications needed. Gets
lower gears.
2. New 6 speed freewheel from Nashbar for $19.95. 14-28 tooth model.
Assume your bike currently has 6 speed freewheel and the downtube
shifters will work with the new one. I'm fairly confident in this
assumption. Pay the bike shop to change freewheels for you. Cost you
$5. Gets you lower gears.
3. New chain from Nashbar. Cheap 6/7 speed chain. $10. Needed
because you have a bigger cog in back and the chain must be able to
wrap around the big ring on the crankset and the big cog on the
freewheel to be safe.
4. Dual pivot brakes from Nashbar. $29.95. Short reach model most
likely. Easier to operate than the ones you currently have.
5. New brake cables. $5 total for both sets. Get them from Wal-Mart.
Or Nashbar.

$90 total roughly. Probably low enough gears. Everything is easy to
put on. Except the freewheel which you can have the bike shop or the
bike owner do.

"Tom Reingold" wrote in message
...


Fenders are actually nice, and it's a very well kept secret in the US.
Yes, you have to pay to get them, since no one wants to buy a bike with
them. But lots of road bikes don't have the eyelets or the clearance to
fit them.

Not addressing the clearance issue, but I'm glad to see that SKS is now
selling "racing fenders" with seatstay and fork blade clamps for
non-eyeletted dropouts.

http://www.rei.com/product/47611594.htm

Hank Wirtz wrote:

Not addressing the clearance issue, but I'm glad to see that SKS is now
selling "racing fenders" with seatstay and fork blade clamps for
non-eyeletted dropouts.

http://www.rei.com/product/47611594.htm


Those are too short!



--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy
This email address works, but only for a short time.

wrote:

The most important interfaces on a bicycle are where the rider and the
bike meet. Saddle. Handlebars/brake levers/shifters. And pedals.

I'm a computer person, but I don't see the relevance of looking at
"interfaces" on a bicycle.

Sure, the human/bike interfaces are important, since you have to (or
hope to) be on the bike for a while.

And having low enough gears to comfortably get up any hills you happen
to be climbing. Very important.

That's not so important. If you don't have low gears, you have a better
chance of learning to climb hills well. The super low gears that bikes
come with these days helps to ensure that riders never learn.

And if you don't use the opportunity to learn, that's OK, too. You can
walk up hills. Is that so bad?

My approach to difficult hills is to stop and rest when it gets really
hard. Then I resume on the bicycle. I don't like to walk. But it's fine
for some people.


--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy
This email address works, but only for a short time.

"Tom Reingold" wrote in message
...
Hank Wirtz wrote:

Not addressing the clearance issue, but I'm glad to see that SKS is now
selling "racing fenders" with seatstay and fork blade clamps for
non-eyeletted dropouts.

http://www.rei.com/product/47611594.htm


Those are too short!


Of course they are. But at least it's telling poseurs that having fenders
won't make them less cool.

FWIW, I have black SKSes. The stays blend in with the spokes and the fender
blends in with the tire. From a distance, you wouldn't even notice them.
Unless you're riding behind me on a rainy day. And I live in Seattle.

-HW

Tom Reingold wrote:



Seat height is determined by your leg length, not handlebar height. The
seat usually ends up being higher than your handlebars, because leaning
forward is more efficient than sitting up. It is also better to reduce
fatigue if you take long rides. However, some people prefer to sit up
more, especially women.

If you're out of seatpost, you can get a longer seatpost, but a larger
bike might be necessary to get a proper fit.

41 said modern bikes have extreme seating positions to accomodate
poseurs who wish to look like racers even if they lack the stuff. I
think he has a point which is relevant to me because, as a weightlifter,
I have a large chest (compared to civilians) making it tough for me to
get in a full crouch. Part of the reason I can sit my bike (as 41
pointed out) indefinitely is the relative positions of bars and saddle
which I'd lose in a new 'poseur' bike. I'd not gain speed if I were
uncomfortable.



I definitely do not wish to look the poseur because I can't back that
play. This may cause a laugh from some here, but I wear a tee shirt
instead of a real bike shirt because I don't want to pretend to be
what I'm not.


Wear what you want, not to be a snob or a reverse snob, either. If you
discover the advantages of cycling clothing, then wear it, not because
you're a super cyclist but because you like to wear it. And if you don't
like it, that's fine, too. I often wear street clothes when I ride, even
on long rides.

Until I get much better, I"d feel pretentious wearing those bright
'Italian racer' shirts. It's just me. I don't want to pretend to be what
I'm not.



The classic racing position is with the nose very, very slightly up. Or
totally level. If it points down, it might mean the seat is too high for
you, and I doubt it is.


You can see it is nose up if you look but it's not dramatic. I got there
by trial and error as suggested by a fellow I met who was an expert. It
really makes a terrific difference to the good. I need to mention that
I've broken each limb at least once, have a rebuilt knee, have a thrice
broken shoulder - and that's just the start of my list. So my anatomy
may be very different from standard.



Believe it. We are all governed by our emotions to varying degrees,
whether we admit it or not. And we sometimes express our love for our
sport by spending money, and we justify it irrationally. Wheels need to
be durable, and they need to be as light as you can afford them. Light
wheels are nice, but I don't think it's necessary to spend truckloads of
money on wheels. And the recent trends are to sell light wheels that are
not designed to be durable. A fool and his money are easily parted. A
lot of people clamor at the opportunity to spend money, thinking that if
it costs more, it must be better.

As I posted elsewhere, all athletic endeavor is governed by your
mentals. I learned this as a distance runner. I understand this is a
prime element of tennis playing. It extends to all physical activities.

Clearly, IMO, if you feel your wheels give you an edge, you WILL have an
edge. I may buy some super lightweight ones (I almost did yesterday but
was unsure if a wheel for an 8-10 speed Shimano would work with my 7
speed setup) just for the heck of it. Now that I have decided to keep
the Giordana, I have some budget I can apply to it. I spoke to my
buddy's wife and I feel sure I can buy the bike.


Bearing friction plays no practical role in how your bike rides. The
critical thing is rolling resistance that your tires cause. Get light,
supple tires that accept high pressure, and pump them to 90 or 100 psi.

I did. They are so supple that I thought they can't work as I can fold
them up & put in pocket.




Clipless pedals sure are nice, aren't they?

Yes. I watched the Tour. One of the pro talkers said the guys there
pedaled in 'circles' so I'm trying to spin the bike in imitation of the
experts. It tires me too much to do always, but I'm extending my range.
I think this will pay off and I could not do it w/o the clipless. I did
a tip over on my first outing which scared the whiz out of my daughter,
but it takes a LOT more than a tip over to hurt me.

-paul

Tom Reingold wrote:

That's not so important. If you don't have low gears, you have a better
chance of learning to climb hills well. The super low gears that bikes
come with these days helps to ensure that riders never learn.

And if you don't use the opportunity to learn, that's OK, too. You can
walk up hills. Is that so bad?

My approach to difficult hills is to stop and rest when it gets really
hard. Then I resume on the bicycle. I don't like to walk. But it's fine
for some people.


I'm in no danger of having too low gears. My lowest ratio is 2:1
(45:22). How does that help me learn to ride hills? I was hoping for an
easier low gear if I can find (and my machine handle) as much as a 32
for my largest cogset sprocket. I have plenty of high left as my large
chainring is a 52. I seem to be the only two speed bike out there. All
others have a very small 3rd chainring which looks like a 35 or less.

I was riding my motorcycle today on a dirt road up a steep hill when I
stopped to chat with a bicycle guy who decided to rest and then resume.
Did we meet?

-paul