threaded fork sizing?

Eric Hill wrote:

Yeah. To be sure, and I don't think I mentioned this in my original
post, my idea here is to shave some weight until I buy a new bike in a
year or so. Now, to track down that Bianchi threaded carbon fork they
made a few years back!

The difference in weight between an older-style threaded carbon fork
and a Bianchi steel unicrown fork is maybe 3 or 4 oz. Not worth the
trouble and expense if you are planning to get a new bike next year
anyway, IMO.

wrote:
The difference in weight between an older-style threaded carbon fork
and a Bianchi steel unicrown fork is maybe 3 or 4 oz. Not worth the
trouble and expense if you are planning to get a new bike next year
anyway, IMO.

Good point. I'm just laying out a priority list for upgrades, since the
bike is currently a hodgepodge of low-mid Shimagnolo. Obviously I bought
it used.

-eric

Zog The Undeniable wrote:
Unless you love the look of a quill stem, go threadless. You'll need
a new stem and headset, but this seems like the ideal opportunity to
upgrade. Decent quill stems are getting rare - especially if you want
a black one - and one day you'll need to replace yours.

Eric Hill wrote:
I've actually read and thought about this a bit and am not convinced
that it's actually qualifies as an upgrade.

I'm with Eric. And there's no shortage of black quills. If
anything there's more selection now, especially at both
small and large extremes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi wrote:
Zog The Undeniable wrote:

Unless you love the look of a quill stem, go threadless. You'll need
a new stem and headset, but this seems like the ideal opportunity to
upgrade. Decent quill stems are getting rare - especially if you
want a black one - and one day you'll need to replace yours.


Eric Hill wrote:

I've actually read and thought about this a bit and am not convinced
that it's actually qualifies as an upgrade.


I'm with Eric. And there's no shortage of black quills. If anything
there's more selection now, especially at both small and large extremes.

And to wrap this subthread up, that picture is just the picture of my
stem from the Bianchi site. I don't care about stem color.

-eric

Eric Hill wrote:
I've actually read and thought about this a bit and am not convinced
that it's actually qualifies as an upgrade.

On 16 Jul 2005 16:28:49 -0700, "
wrote:
All things considered, the same could be said about replacing a good
steel fork with the latest-and-greatest carbon model.

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
Why? Carbon forks are strong and lighter.

Eric Hill wrote:
Yeah. To be sure, and I don't think I mentioned this in my original
post, my idea here is to shave some weight until I buy a new bike in a
year or so. Now, to track down that Bianchi threaded carbon fork they
made a few years back!

Threaded carbon forks are a standard and popular item. No
need to buy vintage. Newer forks are arguably better. And
cost less.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Dave Thompson wrote:

wrote:
snip I doubt if Shimano ever made a threaded 1.125" headset.

They didn't. The 105 headset is 1".


They certainly made a 1.25" threaded XT headset. I have one on my
Cannondale, a NOS one in the garage and a set of spare cartridges!

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 06:10:51 GMT, Eric Hill
wrote:

Dave Thompson wrote:
wrote:
snip I doubt if Shimano ever made a threaded 1.125" headset.

They didn't. The 105 headset is 1".

Perfect, guys. Thanks.


HP-M901
HP-M741
HP-M736
HP-M651
HP-M564
are all Shimano models for threaded 1.125" steerers. Maybe others.
-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Comprehensive catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996.
http://www.businesscycles.com

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 21:31:01 -0500, A Muzi wrote:

Eric Hill wrote:
I've actually read and thought about this a bit and am not convinced
that it's actually qualifies as an upgrade.

I'm with Eric. And there's no shortage of black quills. If
anything there's more selection now, especially at both
small and large extremes.

Yeah, me too. The main advantage of threadless, besides giving bikeshops
something to do in selling them for older bikes and the immense market in
replacement stems, seems to be that you don't get aluminum quills
oxidising solid in the steerer tube any more. Now, if I had my druthers,
I'd call that a materials science defect rather than a structural defect.
Never seen an oldfashioned chromed-steel stem be more than a little rusted
shut.

And it's not like threadless is any cheaper, the headsets are more
complicated, the steerer tube has to be longer (and selling one that has
been cut down second hand ought to be a crime), and even the stems are
twice as complex (even compared to quill stems with 4-bolt, easy-change
bar attachment side). And lower end bikes need even more complicated stems
with a pivot to have even the slightest adjustability, which is something
people count on getting on those.

As far as I'm concerned, threadless should be the domain of weight
weenies.


Jasper

Jasper Janssen writes:

I've actually read and thought about this a bit and am not
convinced that it's actually qualifies as an upgrade.

I'm with Eric. And there's no shortage of black quills. If
anything there's more selection now, especially at both small and
large extremes.

Yeah, me too. The main advantage of threadless, besides giving bike
shops something to do in selling them for older bikes and the
immense market in replacement stems, seems to be that you don't get
aluminum quills oxidizing solid in the steerer tube any more. Now,
if I had my druthers, I'd call that a materials science defect
rather than a structural defect. Never seen an old fashioned
chromed-steel stem be more than a little rusted shut.

I think you must have missed the years after the introduction of the
aluminum quill stem when steel stems practically vanished. Head
bearing manufacturers tried O-rings in the top nut and goop in the top
of the steer tube to prevent the common permanent corrosion of stem to
fork.

Only then did the failure mode become apparent in which the quill stem
is attached only at its lower end by an expander while the upper end
remained free to move radially, both elastically and by fretting in
the expanded split end.

At this time, some stems reverted to the slant cut wedge that had been
used on department store bicycle, because it had a longer clamp zone.
The result was that these stems are rotationally insecure and with
forceful riding unscrewed the stem expander bolt.

All this came to a head when MTB bars with their larger width and
often greater offset overloaded the quill stem to the point that it
broke off on occasion besides experiencing the corrosion failure more
readily. The corrosion failure occurs primarily because the stem
pumps from side to side and in wet weather introduces water laced with
sweat into the interface. The pumping motion was not readily evident
because it was partly elastic compliance and not made up entirely of a
loose fit in the steer tube.

And it's not like threadless is any cheaper, the headsets are more
complicated, the steerer tube has to be longer (and selling one that
has been cut down second hand ought to be a crime), and even the
stems are twice as complex (even compared to quill stems with
4-bolt, easy-change bar attachment side). And lower end bikes need
even more complicated stems with a pivot to have even the slightest
adjustability, which is something people count on getting on those.

As with tubular tires, we will see defenders of the ill conceived
quill stem for many years.

As far as I'm concerned, threadless should be the domain of weight
weenies.

I suppose if you don't want to recognize mechanical realities, you can
remain in that belief without doubt. You might consider some of the
tradeoffs:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/t...s-headset.html

Jobst Brandt

On 2005-07-29 13:52:50 -0700, Jasper Janssen said:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 21:31:01 -0500, A Muzi wrote:

Eric Hill wrote:
I've actually read and thought about this a bit and am not convinced
that it's actually qualifies as an upgrade.

I'm with Eric. And there's no shortage of black quills. If anything
there's more selection now, especially at both small and large extremes.

Yeah, me too. The main advantage of threadless, besides giving bikeshops
something to do in selling them for older bikes and the immense market in
replacement stems, seems to be that you don't get aluminum quills
oxidising solid in the steerer tube any more. Now, if I had my druthers,
I'd call that a materials science defect rather than a structural defect.
Never seen an oldfashioned chromed-steel stem be more than a little rusted
shut.

Well, other than threadless can be lighter, stronger, and stiffer. Oh
and not get stuck.

And it's not like threadless is any cheaper, the headsets are more
complicated, the steerer tube has to be longer (and selling one that has
been cut down second hand ought to be a crime), and even the stems are
twice as complex (even compared to quill stems with 4-bolt, easy-change
bar attachment side). And lower end bikes need even more complicated stems
with a pivot to have even the slightest adjustability, which is something
people count on getting on those.

My Chris King headset is a lot LESS complicated. What's complicated?
Besides, I always had problems with threaded headsets coming loose.
Not so with threadless. The stems are also very simple... my stem has
2 pinch bolts -- one for the steerer tube, one for the handlebars.


As far as I'm concerned, threadless should be the domain of weight
weenies.

I always had something annoying me about my quill stem. Haven't had
the same with threadless. I really find it to be a better product, and
the weight savings are just icing on the cake.