Black Diamond Bicycle Routes

"The expert bikers don’t necessarily welcome beginners, kids and
out-of-shape visitors intruding on their terrain. Some even oppose
proposals for protected bike lanes, saying “I’m a cyclist, and I don’t
want these.” When cities understand that these highly skilled riders
make up about 1 percent of the population, it helps them move projects
forward that serve a much broader range of people."

http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entry/its-time-to-stop-building-black-diamond-bike-lanes

sms wrote:
"The expert bikers don?t necessarily welcome beginners, kids and
out-of-shape visitors intruding on their terrain. Some even oppose
proposals for protected bike lanes, saying ?I?m a cyclist, and I don?t
want these.? When cities understand that these highly skilled riders
make up about 1 percent of the population, it helps them move projects
forward that serve a much broader range of people."

http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entry/its-time-to-stop-building-black-diamond-bike-lanes

Problem is, sometimes all of the black diamond routes are converted to
green circle routes and the black diamond riders have nowhere else to
ride.

Vancouver streets are in a grid, north-south-east-west. There's a major
road (Kingsway) that runs diagonally through the east side, and makes
for the shortest and quickest journey from the centre of the city to the
southeast. It's what would be called a "black diamond" cycling route
that I use often. I has a few hilly sections and I sometimes reach
speeds of 45 km/h along it.

There was a proposal to install a separated bike lane all along its
length. Cyclists would be banned from the rest of the roadway and
forced to use the bike lane, with its reduced speed limit of 15 km/h
(down from 50 km/h) and impossible left turns. Basically, the only
viable fast route for experienced cyclists would be taken away and given
to the green circle cyclists, when the green circle cyclists already
have a mixed-use pathway (the BC Parkway) that parallels Kingsway just a
few blocks away.

I cancelled my membership in the local cycling advocacy group over their
support and push for this.

--
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

On 1/7/2014 9:12 AM, Király wrote:
sms wrote:
"The expert bikers don?t necessarily welcome beginners, kids and
out-of-shape visitors intruding on their terrain. Some even oppose
proposals for protected bike lanes, saying ?I?m a cyclist, and I don?t
want these.? When cities understand that these highly skilled riders
make up about 1 percent of the population, it helps them move projects
forward that serve a much broader range of people."

http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entry/its-time-to-stop-building-black-diamond-bike-lanes

Problem is, sometimes all of the black diamond routes are converted to
green circle routes and the black diamond riders have nowhere else to
ride.

Vancouver streets are in a grid, north-south-east-west. There's a major
road (Kingsway) that runs diagonally through the east side, and makes
for the shortest and quickest journey from the centre of the city to the
southeast. It's what would be called a "black diamond" cycling route
that I use often. I has a few hilly sections and I sometimes reach
speeds of 45 km/h along it.

There was a proposal to install a separated bike lane all along its
length. Cyclists would be banned from the rest of the roadway and
forced to use the bike lane, with its reduced speed limit of 15 km/h
(down from 50 km/h) and impossible left turns. Basically, the only
viable fast route for experienced cyclists would be taken away and given
to the green circle cyclists, when the green circle cyclists already
have a mixed-use pathway (the BC Parkway) that parallels Kingsway just a
few blocks away.

I cancelled my membership in the local cycling advocacy group over their
support and push for this.



I'm not sure if I like the "black diamond/ green circle" analogy. But I
agree with your concern. Here in Quebec we've had it put into the
highway code that we are not required to use separated paths.

My normal commute takes me parallel to a bike path for several miles.
But if I take this path I would have to ride at 20kph or less so I stay
on the road. The only problem is sometime that the motorists give me a
hard time but this is their problem.

The problem is that there are a lot of people using this separate path
that wouldn't ride on this road. At least not until they get more
experience. There needs to be a way to accommodate both types of riders.

On 1/7/2014 7:42 AM, Duane wrote:

The problem is that there are a lot of people using this separate path
that wouldn't ride on this road. At least not until they get more
experience. There needs to be a way to accommodate both types of riders.

I agree. But that's not the case in bicycle-centric places like The
Netherlands or China. If there are separate facilities you have to use
them and so many people use them that you can't go very fast. The
separate facilities is why helmets are not widely used in these places.
It's always amusing to see the PLs jump up and down about how so few
people in the Netherlands use helmets, then they also jump up and down
about how we should not have separate bicycle facilities like the
Netherlands.

ENTER THE COORDINATES INTO GOOGLE EARTH

26.493644° -81.932328°

Last fall our State and Fed code determined condo building spree repaved Summerlin...itsa tourist Blvd..and painted a regulation bike path between the merge lane bottom screen and the next door moving toward top screen first thru lane.

Amazing.

The path next to the canal is the unreged old 11/50 mile bike path.

then the canal ( drainage ditch) someday paved over into a pipe then a short run access road.

I haven't had the opportunity to inquire why.

My first visit here 1973/4 , Summerlin was a bumpy 2 lane patched slick tar road

running thru a deep and tall green jungle.

what you see did not exist

On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 6:36:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:
ENTER THE COORDINATES INTO GOOGLE EARTH



26.493644° -81.932328°



Last fall our State and Fed code determined condo building spree repaved Summerlin...itsa tourist Blvd..and painted a regulation bike path between the merge lane bottom screen and the next door moving toward top screen first thru lane.



Amazing.



The path next to the canal is the unreged old 11/50 mile bike path.



then the canal ( drainage ditch) someday paved over into a pipe then a short run access road.



I haven't had the opportunity to inquire why.



My first visit here 1973/4 , Summerlin was a bumpy 2 lane patched slick tar road



running thru a deep and tall green jungle.



what you see did not exist

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb



path runs out here

26.553131° -82.198762°

Duane writes:

On 1/7/2014 9:12 AM, Király wrote:
sms wrote:
"The expert bikers don?t necessarily welcome beginners, kids and
out-of-shape visitors intruding on their terrain. Some even oppose
proposals for protected bike lanes, saying ?I?m a cyclist, and I don?t
want these.? When cities understand that these highly skilled riders
make up about 1 percent of the population, it helps them move projects
forward that serve a much broader range of people."

http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entry/its-time-to-stop-building-black-diamond-bike-lanes



Problem is, sometimes all of the black diamond routes are converted to
green circle routes and the black diamond riders have nowhere else to
ride.


I sympathize. I advocate for change toward the Dutch model,
but know deep down that it will mean the end of my ways.

However, being a "ride anywhere (and everywhere)" kind of guy,
I am highly sketical whenever I hear "nowhere else to ride".
There's *always* a way (for me).

Vancouver streets are in a grid, north-south-east-west. There's a major
road (Kingsway) that runs diagonally through the east side, and makes
for the shortest and quickest journey from the centre of the city to the
southeast. It's what would be called a "black diamond" cycling route
that I use often. I has a few hilly sections and I sometimes reach
speeds of 45 km/h along it.

There was a proposal to install a separated bike lane all along its
length. Cyclists would be banned from the rest of the roadway and
forced to use the bike lane, with its reduced speed limit of 15 km/h
(down from 50 km/h) and impossible left turns. Basically, the only
viable fast route for experienced cyclists would be taken away and given
to the green circle cyclists, when the green circle cyclists already
have a mixed-use pathway (the BC Parkway) that parallels Kingsway just a
few blocks away.


Okay, I can see your point. (Skinny tires?) That is a bad
deal.

I cancelled my membership in the local cycling advocacy group over their
support and push for this.


Who needs those bums, anyway? ;-)



I'm not sure if I like the "black diamond/ green circle" analogy. But
I agree with your concern. Here in Quebec we've had it put into the
highway code that we are not required to use separated paths.


I *do* like the "black diamond / green circle" analogy.

Here in Oregon we are required to use a sutiable path when
available, but exceptions cover almost anything imaginable;
and in practice, it's only the horn honking civilians
"enforcing" it, and they're "enforcing" all kinds of other
crap that's entirely legal (and best practice), too. So...

My normal commute takes me parallel to a bike path for several
miles. But if I take this path I would have to ride at 20kph or less
so I stay on the road. The only problem is sometime that the
motorists give me a hard time but this is their problem.


Ah, yes - as above. Sucks, though, doesn't it. Kind of
detracts from the ecperience. That's why I always say
motorist hostility is far-and-away the #1 problem for
transportation bicycling.

The problem is that there are a lot of people using this separate path
that wouldn't ride on this road. At least not until they get more
experience. There needs to be a way to accommodate both types of
riders.

Ding, ding, ding! BINGO!

I think it would be great if we had a Dutch-like network
(and all that goes with it), but also a rule that says you
can still use the road instead _as long as you're not
impeding traffic_ Frank wouldn't like it. He calls us
gutter bunnies and pussies for trying not to impede traffic,
and of course he can't exert control over the big boys from
the green circle run.

But I think the vast majority (apologies to J) of bicyclists
would see it as a tremendous improvement over what we've got.

On 08/01/14 02:42, Duane wrote:
The problem is that there are a lot of people using this separate path
that wouldn't ride on this road. At least not until they get more
experience. There needs to be a way to accommodate both types of riders.

From what I hear, in some places (NL) they have bicycling roads that can
accommodate just about all cyclists (maybe not stunt riders - sorry
Dan). 3 bike lanes each way.

--
JS

On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 11:11:39 PM UTC-5, Dan wrote:

I think it would be great if we had a Dutch-like network
(and all that goes with it)...

It's a pretty dream. Do you have a plan to a) pay for it, and b) get it through our legislative system?

but also a rule that says you
can still use the road instead _as long as you're not
impeding traffic_

"As long as you're not impeding traffic" seems to means you disapprove of a bicyclist slowing a motorist - or perhaps, a certain number of motorists. Can you clarify?

IIRC (perhaps I'm wrong) Oregon has a "five or more" law on the books - that a slow-moving vehicle has to pull over _when safe_ to allow a backup of five vehicles to get by. My state has no such law, but I do it anyway when that occurs. It occurs perhaps once per year, if that.

Otherwise, I ride using my legal right to the road. And just as I slow and wait until it's safe before I drive my car past an Amish buggy, or a garbage truck, or a slow-moving car, I expect motorists to do the same to pass my bike. It's all part of my right to the road in existing law. But it sounds like you want to take that right away!

Frank wouldn't like it. He calls us
gutter bunnies and pussies for trying not to impede traffic,

No, I don't like it when bicyclists try to remove or restrict other bicyclists' rights to the road.

and of course he can't exert control over the big boys from
the green circle run.

? Sorry, that doesn't compute. I thought the green circle runs were for the little kids and other people who knew very, very little. Not so much the "big boys."

But I think the vast majority (apologies to J) of bicyclists
would see it as a tremendous improvement over what we've got.

The vast majority of cyclists are people who, honestly, know very little about bicycling. Sorry, but that's true. But why not try to teach them the little bit that they need to know to ride safely on roads we already have? Why is that not better AND more feasible than spending billions of dollars to re-design our entire road system?

Yesterday, I posted about a friend who rode to work on sidewalks because he was getting passed too closely on the street. When I advised him to try riding at lane center, he did it and said it works fantastically.

He happens to be a _very_ intelligent electrical engineer; but he'd never heard about sidewalk hazards, nor about lane control. A very brief and casual discussion was all it took to get him thinking, then testing what turned out to be the solution to his problem.

Perhaps most people would need a little more explanation than this guy. But with bike paths and cycletracks costing something like a million dollars per mile, we should be able to do a LOT of educating (of both cyclists and motorists) at far lower cost. Why do you object to that?

- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 12:04:55 AM UTC-5, James wrote:

From what I hear, in some places (NL) they have bicycling roads that can
accommodate just about all cyclists (maybe not stunt riders - sorry
Dan). 3 bike lanes each way.

Around here, quite a few towns have "skate parks" with ramps, drop-offs, half pipes and other stunt features that are used by kids on BMX bikes. I guess as long as people are proposing Dutch-style bike facilities everywhere, they could throw in a skate park ever few miles for Dan.

- Frank Krygowski