Spline on Shimano freewheel/sprockets.

On 1/12/2014 12:23 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Stephen Bauman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 22:30:20 +0000, Ian Field wrote:

The splined removal tool I bought from Halfrauds tends to
ride over and
jam in - is it likely to be faulty (tolerance limits) or
am I doing it
wrong?

Thanks.

Shimano has used several different spline designs for
freewheels and
cassettes. None is compatible with one another.

The one in the Powerfix/Crivit sport toolset from the Lidl
store chain clearly isn't compatible - I took it to
Halfrauds and asked for one "not the same as that" - the one
they supplied worked OK for a few times but soon started
giving trouble.

I've ordered a new tool from an independant cycle shop, and
made it clear that its to fit the freewheel they sold me
recently.

At the time, I asked the shop keeper if I'd been doing it
wrong - I clamp the tool in the vice, put the wheel on it
and turn that, he said that's exactly the way they always do
it.

It crossed my mind that holding the wheel and turning the
tool with a spanner would produce an off-centre torque and
help the spline bite - but last time I looked, no spanner
big enough.

Before anyone asks - spanner is English for American wrench.


You were right the first time; tool in vise, turn wheel.

Regarding uneven pressure, it shouldn't matter but it is
more even with two hands on a wheel.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I have several taken from the dumpster, 5 cogs thick and eternal, 7's smoot slick and rewarding wondering why one would want 8.

Tore up the first 2 tooth Suntour tool wondering WTF ? cheap. 2 teeth. AAAIIIIIEEEE ITNO THE HOLE.

So proceeded with the soak in brine 3 weeks then torch until smoking Dude. Into the vise and sacrifice a gatorette.

twists right off no prob.

What was inside ? Kinda bluish white and metallic.

lesson learned was buying Shimano tools if possible.

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 18:23:37 +0000, Ian Field wrote:

"Stephen Bauman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 22:30:20 +0000, Ian Field wrote:

The splined removal tool I bought from Halfrauds tends to ride over
and jam in - is it likely to be faulty (tolerance limits) or am I
doing it wrong?

Thanks.

Shimano has used several different spline designs for freewheels and
cassettes. None is compatible with one another.

The one in the Powerfix/Crivit sport toolset from the Lidl store chain
clearly isn't compatible - I took it to Halfrauds and asked for one "not
the same as that" - the one they supplied worked OK for a few times but
soon started giving trouble.

I've ordered a new tool from an independant cycle shop, and made it
clear that its to fit the freewheel they sold me recently.

At the time, I asked the shop keeper if I'd been doing it wrong - I
clamp the tool in the vice, put the wheel on it and turn that, he said
that's exactly the way they always do it.

It crossed my mind that holding the wheel and turning the tool with a
spanner would produce an off-centre torque and help the spline bite -
but last time I looked, no spanner big enough.

Before anyone asks - spanner is English for American wrench.

I checked Halford's website.

They are claiming that the Park FR-5C is a Shimano freewheel remover. It
isn't. It's a cassette lock ring remover. Cassette lock rings do not need
the high torque required to remove freewheels. Cassette removers are not
built as strong as freewheel removers. Park's Shimano freewheel remover
is the FR-1. It will work on post 1985 Shimano freewheels. Park claim's
it's heat treated alloy steel. It does not make that claim for the FR-5.

There's another caution on Bike Tools Etc.'s website that you may also
want to consult.

http://www.biketoolsetc.com

"Item #BR-CT6MB: Removes all Shimano Freewheels manufactured since 1985,
Uniglide freewheels before 1985, and recent Sachs freewheels. 22.4 OD
(Outside dimension) thin wall, 12 splines, 22.4 diameter. This tool has a
5mm wallthickness for tough freewheels. Thin wall removers are convenient
for use on road bikes where the freewheel threads are routinely
lubricated and don't require great force to remove. For others, we
recommend the medium thick or thick wall model freewheel tools. The very
thick walled tools are very strong for use on mountain bikes, tandems,
rusty wheels and other situations where freewheels get cranked on extra
tight."

Bicycle Research (BR) makes very good parts. They also make a thin-walled
Shimano freewheel remover. So, they have gotten some feedback about their
failing thin walled removers.

I've used Park's FR-1 on many minimally maintained bikes without
destroying it. I'm not saying that Park is better than BR. However, if
you are using a very low gear then the freewheel will really tighten up.
If your hub allows you to remove the driving side lock nut with the
freewheel on, then the BR remover might work for you. If it won't get the
right remover and keep replacing it as it wears out.

Stephen Bauman

The thinwall tool is on page 2

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...Id_242558#tab1

XLC Shimano HG Freewheel Socket
The XLC Shimano HG Freewheel Socket is a high quality lock ring removal tool. This freewheel socket is a great addition to any cyclist's toolkit, and can be used with a 24mm socket or with a 1/2" racket.
XLC Shimano HG Freewheel Socket Extra Info
• High quality lock ring removal tool for Shimano HG type multiple freewheels
• Can be used with a 24mm socket or a 1/2" ratchet

****************

That is correct Steve and the axle off tool is a lot thicker. But this doesn’t alter the spline depth or does it ? The axle off tool has thicker splines.

If you’re working with your prior assembly then the thinwall, an unknown assembly, the thickwall with brine and heat

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 18:11:43 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:55:23 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:43:10 AM UTC-5, wrote:

https://www.google.com/#q=harris+cyc...+removal+tools



hehehe...there's a batch. I forget uh I also forget when uh 20 years ago
switched to the hub as freewheel axles bent and bent under load. I'd put
a new one in, finally Wheels Mfg strong and rebendable axles, pussy
around then slightly drop of a small curb and expletive deleted bent axle
wobble. PITA PITA. Excellent low friction running from the freewheel but
loadinf, forgetabbputit.



Most times, the splines are frozen from TIME or bad assembly practice.
White lithium grease mounting ? Oxy/Mapp gas ? take it to a mechanic at
the LBS who has a torch for you.



https://www.google.com/#q=shimano+fr...+tool&tbm=shop



reassemble with aluminum anti seize.

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU$

All your links so far just open a blank google search page.

The freewheel assembly is very new and recently fitted, I used copper-slip
anti-seize compound.

The tool was bought from Halfrauds and is probably on the limit for
tolerances - it worked fine for the first few times, then developed the
habit of jamming in so I had to find a socket that fit through the hole to
use as a drift.

The problem came to light while the new freewheel was on order - I rummaged
the junk box for a salvaged spare, several that slipped just as bad as the
one I took off and one with a sticky ratchet that kept throwing the chain.

There were a few noticably loose spokes - so it won't be long before I need
a tool that works so I can put the new freewheel on a better wheel.

It is a bit confusing to read the above but I'm left with the idea
that you are trying to remove as free-wheel and the wrench doesn't fit
correctly. I suggest that you go to a site that sell bike stuff, Park
Tools for instance, and look at the number of tools available for the
many different free-wheels. Then get the correct one to fit your
wheel.

If on the other hand, you are trying to remove the cassette from the
free hub, then the number of tools is somewhat limited but even then
it might be useful to take the wheel to the shop and buy the proper
tool.

Once you get the proper tool, if it continues to fail begin to suspect
the constant - the operator.

--
Cheers,

John B.

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 18:11:43 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:55:23 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:43:10 AM UTC-5, wrote:

https://www.google.com/#q=harris+cyc...+removal+tools



hehehe...there's a batch. I forget uh I also forget when uh 20 years
ago
switched to the hub as freewheel axles bent and bent under load. I'd
put
a new one in, finally Wheels Mfg strong and rebendable axles, pussy
around then slightly drop of a small curb and expletive deleted bent
axle
wobble. PITA PITA. Excellent low friction running from the freewheel
but
loadinf, forgetabbputit.



Most times, the splines are frozen from TIME or bad assembly practice.
White lithium grease mounting ? Oxy/Mapp gas ? take it to a mechanic at
the LBS who has a torch for you.



https://www.google.com/#q=shimano+fr...+tool&tbm=shop



reassemble with aluminum anti seize.

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU$

All your links so far just open a blank google search page.

The freewheel assembly is very new and recently fitted, I used copper-slip
anti-seize compound.

The tool was bought from Halfrauds and is probably on the limit for
tolerances - it worked fine for the first few times, then developed the
habit of jamming in so I had to find a socket that fit through the hole to
use as a drift.

The problem came to light while the new freewheel was on order - I
rummaged
the junk box for a salvaged spare, several that slipped just as bad as the
one I took off and one with a sticky ratchet that kept throwing the chain.

There were a few noticably loose spokes - so it won't be long before I
need
a tool that works so I can put the new freewheel on a better wheel.

It is a bit confusing to read the above but I'm left with the idea
that you are trying to remove as free-wheel and the wrench doesn't fit
correctly.

The splined tool for removing the freewheel/sprocket assembly fit OK for the
first few times - but it must be on the tolerance limits because after a few
uses it took to ovrtlapping and jamming in so I had to use a socket to drift
it out.

I've ordered a new one from the shop where I bought the freewheel/sprocket -
presumably they know what they sold me, and what tool fits it.

On Monday, January 13, 2014 12:18:56 PM UTC-5, Ian Field wrote:
"John B." wrote in message

...

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 18:11:43 -0000, "Ian Field"

wrote:







wrote in message

...

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:55:23 AM UTC-5, wrote:

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:43:10 AM UTC-5, wrote:



https://www.google.com/#q=harris+cyc...+removal+tools







hehehe...there's a batch. I forget uh I also forget when uh 20 years

ago

switched to the hub as freewheel axles bent and bent under load. I'd

put

a new one in, finally Wheels Mfg strong and rebendable axles, pussy

around then slightly drop of a small curb and expletive deleted bent

axle

wobble. PITA PITA. Excellent low friction running from the freewheel

but

loadinf, forgetabbputit.







Most times, the splines are frozen from TIME or bad assembly practice.

White lithium grease mounting ? Oxy/Mapp gas ? take it to a mechanic at

the LBS who has a torch for you.







https://www.google.com/#q=shimano+fr...+tool&tbm=shop







reassemble with aluminum anti seize.



UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU$



All your links so far just open a blank google search page.



The freewheel assembly is very new and recently fitted, I used copper-slip

anti-seize compound.



The tool was bought from Halfrauds and is probably on the limit for

tolerances - it worked fine for the first few times, then developed the

habit of jamming in so I had to find a socket that fit through the hole to

use as a drift.



The problem came to light while the new freewheel was on order - I

rummaged

the junk box for a salvaged spare, several that slipped just as bad as the

one I took off and one with a sticky ratchet that kept throwing the chain.



There were a few noticably loose spokes - so it won't be long before I

need

a tool that works so I can put the new freewheel on a better wheel.



It is a bit confusing to read the above but I'm left with the idea

that you are trying to remove as free-wheel and the wrench doesn't fit

correctly.



The splined tool for removing the freewheel/sprocket assembly fit OK for the

first few times - but it must be on the tolerance limits because after a few

uses it took to ovrtlapping and jamming in so I had to use a socket to drift

it out.



I've ordered a new one from the shop where I bought the freewheel/sprocket -

presumably they know what they sold me, and what tool fits it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

the tool you have from Halsford is a thin wall tool. Find a thick wall tool requiring axle removal.....freewheel prob needs inspection, bearings, grease.

The thick wall tool is hefty.

I'm sure the LBS as one to show

On Mon, 13 Jan 2014 17:18:56 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 18:11:43 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:55:23 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:43:10 AM UTC-5, wrote:

https://www.google.com/#q=harris+cyc...+removal+tools



hehehe...there's a batch. I forget uh I also forget when uh 20 years
ago
switched to the hub as freewheel axles bent and bent under load. I'd
put
a new one in, finally Wheels Mfg strong and rebendable axles, pussy
around then slightly drop of a small curb and expletive deleted bent
axle
wobble. PITA PITA. Excellent low friction running from the freewheel
but
loadinf, forgetabbputit.



Most times, the splines are frozen from TIME or bad assembly practice.
White lithium grease mounting ? Oxy/Mapp gas ? take it to a mechanic at
the LBS who has a torch for you.



https://www.google.com/#q=shimano+fr...+tool&tbm=shop



reassemble with aluminum anti seize.

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU$

All your links so far just open a blank google search page.

The freewheel assembly is very new and recently fitted, I used copper-slip
anti-seize compound.

The tool was bought from Halfrauds and is probably on the limit for
tolerances - it worked fine for the first few times, then developed the
habit of jamming in so I had to find a socket that fit through the hole to
use as a drift.

The problem came to light while the new freewheel was on order - I
rummaged
the junk box for a salvaged spare, several that slipped just as bad as the
one I took off and one with a sticky ratchet that kept throwing the chain.

There were a few noticably loose spokes - so it won't be long before I
need
a tool that works so I can put the new freewheel on a better wheel.

It is a bit confusing to read the above but I'm left with the idea
that you are trying to remove as free-wheel and the wrench doesn't fit
correctly.

The splined tool for removing the freewheel/sprocket assembly fit OK for the
first few times - but it must be on the tolerance limits because after a few
uses it took to ovrtlapping and jamming in so I had to use a socket to drift
it out.

I've ordered a new one from the shop where I bought the freewheel/sprocket -
presumably they know what they sold me, and what tool fits it.

Lets see... A company makes a free-wheel wrench that only works twice
and then you have to throw it away and buy a new one? I'll bet that
A. Muzzi buys a lot from that company as back-in-the-day his place
probably changed free-wheels all day long.

A quick look at the Park Tools catalog shows 10 different free-wheel
wrenches...... Lets see? Which free-wheel did that guy buy?

Good luck.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Phil W Lee wrote:
:A tandem freewheel can strain the limits of all but the strongest
perator on that part of the process, but I've never come across a
:solo freewheel that doesn't come out this way.

I have. I've used an air impact wrench, which works great. Inch
socket fits most removal tools. A donut would get most tire shops to
take it off for you.


--
sig 102

On 14/01/14 12:22, Phil W Lee wrote:

A tandem freewheel can strain the limits of all but the strongest
operator on that part of the process, but I've never come across a
solo freewheel that doesn't come out this way.
Make certain that there is nothing that can get in the way of your
knuckles when the wheel turns, as they sometimes go suddenly.
For a tandem freewheel, you may need two people to apply force to
loosen, just as two riders strength have tightened it - and make sure
the bench that holds the vice is bolted to the wall or floor (I and a
friend managed to rotate a bench by neglecting that precaution).

I destroyed a Deore-XT MTB hub. I was the MTB rider. The hub cracked
and let the threaded section go.

Perhaps there was not enough grease on the thread, or some corrosion or
whatever. Certainly a very small chain ring used with a very large
sprocket causes a high tightening torque.

--
JS