Lights = manufacturers moving to non-replaceable batteries

On 2/15/2016 9:00 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:29:36 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:12:32 AM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 10:46:23 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.

It looks like I'll be getting another Cygolite product.

Cheers

You must be riding very slow if flickering is a problem with a SON hub dynamo.

Lou

Why would I buy a hub that when demonstrated flickered a lot at low speed? If I'm going up a steep incline and I'm riding at a slow speed I still, believe it or not, want to see where the heck I'm going and what's on the road ahead of me.

Ditto the above for riding slowly on trails at night.

Cheers

Flicker is gone at speed of 7 km/hr and above. Just a data point. You don't have to buy anything. Don't feel attacked every time someone trying to explains/mentions something. That is a strange habit of you.

Lou


That's right. Even my SA GH-6 DynoHub, which flickers and,
in the best British tradition, "spans a range from dim to
dark"[1], is perfectly adequate and suitable for me. I am
not Sir, who may well have different needs or opinions.

[1] Rumored Lucas advertising phrase

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 10:00:45 AM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:29:36 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:12:32 AM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 10:46:23 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.

It looks like I'll be getting another Cygolite product.

Cheers

You must be riding very slow if flickering is a problem with a SON hub dynamo.

Lou

Why would I buy a hub that when demonstrated flickered a lot at low speed? If I'm going up a steep incline and I'm riding at a slow speed I still, believe it or not, want to see where the heck I'm going and what's on the road ahead of me.

Ditto the above for riding slowly on trails at night.

Cheers

Flicker is gone at speed of 7 km/hr and above. Just a data point. You don't have to buy anything. Don't feel attacked every time someone trying to explains/mentions something. That is a strange habit of you.

Lou

So, if someone makes a comment based on someone else's pst then the person making the comment has to feel as if they've been attacked?

Strange that.

Cheers

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 7:00:45 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:29:36 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:12:32 AM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 10:46:23 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.

It looks like I'll be getting another Cygolite product.

Cheers

You must be riding very slow if flickering is a problem with a SON hub dynamo.

Lou

Why would I buy a hub that when demonstrated flickered a lot at low speed? If I'm going up a steep incline and I'm riding at a slow speed I still, believe it or not, want to see where the heck I'm going and what's on the road ahead of me.

Ditto the above for riding slowly on trails at night.

Cheers

Flicker is gone at speed of 7 km/hr and above. Just a data point. You don't have to buy anything. Don't feel attacked every time someone trying to explains/mentions something. That is a strange habit of you.

My SP hub and Luxos B produce a steady beam at about 4mph, which is roughly the same as the Schmidt hub. Whether the beam is sufficient is another matter, and in great part, subjective.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2016-02-14 20:24, Barry Beams wrote:

[...]

Since some of you preach about replaceable batteries for other
brands, check out the cost of a replacement proprietary battery for
the Cygos or Serfas. Cateye Volt is even worse. Versus $8.50 or
less for my Barry Beams branded and warranteed 26650, and $5 or less
for any old $18650 which you can use in my Oculus.


I will never understand why cyclists put up with dynamos, with replacing
batteries and with lights that go out mid-ride. Car drivers would want a
full refund if their cars did that.

On my MTB I have a battery of about 60Wh, similar to the capacity on a
higher end laptop. This allows me to run a 1000 lumen light at full bore
for 5-6h. Still have to build a good rear light for that because as
usual nothing is available commercially that could be directly hooked
into a 8.4V system and isn't mechanically flimsy.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy3.JPG

Has survived mud, rain, rock hits and whatnot. The front light has an
added dispersion lens so it lights the trail or road similar to a
motorcycle light and doesn't blind oncoming drivers. The rear light
still needs a wire cage protector against flying debris.

Even back in the 80's I had a proper light system similar to what motor
vehicles had. Except there I could charge with a dynamo while riding
because all we had was small lead-acid batteries and NiCd along with
power-hungry incandescent bulbs.

Battery replacement during a ride? Not with this here rider.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2/15/2016 10:22 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 10:00:45 AM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:29:36 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:12:32 AM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 10:46:23 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.

It looks like I'll be getting another Cygolite product.

Cheers

You must be riding very slow if flickering is a problem with a SON hub dynamo.

Lou

Why would I buy a hub that when demonstrated flickered a lot at low speed? If I'm going up a steep incline and I'm riding at a slow speed I still, believe it or not, want to see where the heck I'm going and what's on the road ahead of me.

Ditto the above for riding slowly on trails at night.

Cheers

Flicker is gone at speed of 7 km/hr and above. Just a data point. You don't have to buy anything. Don't feel attacked every time someone trying to explains/mentions something. That is a strange habit of you.

Lou

So, if someone makes a comment based on someone else's pst then the person making the comment has to feel as if they've been attacked?

Strange that.

Nope, you've got it backwards. When people comment on _your_ posts,
_you_ frequently act as if you'd been attacked. Lou and I were both
trying to prevent that.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 12:29:09 PM UTC, Andre Jute wrote:
I have both SON and Shimano dynohubs and the SON definitely flickers more when starting off and at slow speed. I was roundly abused over the years for saying so but it was true then and is true now. Check the threads on BUMM lamps.

Andre Jute
When I'm right I'm right

Er, I wasn't replying to Lou but to Sir. It's a bit hit and miss when you use your iPhone or iPad rather than the desktop Mac.

Andre Jute

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 2:33:43 PM UTC, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

The point is that not everyone wants to ride at high speeds all the time just to keep their light from flickering. There are many times when it's not possible to ride at high speeds.

I've been saying for years that, while the SON may be the aspirational dynamo for roadies doing winter training and using the bike for nothing else, and for tourers who can't afford a breakdown in Outer Camelstan, for commuters and utility cyclists the Shimano hub dynamo is a superior choice: a third the price, lights up at lower speed, gives smooth enough light at lower speed, better too as a daylight running lamp driver, and at high speed works the same. So what if the Shimano doesn't last as long as the SON? How many cyclists want their components to last longer than the 50k klicks the Shimano is good for?

Andre Jute

On 2/15/2016 9:33 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
The point is that not everyone wants to ride at high speeds all the time just to
keep their light from flickering. There are many times when it's not
possible to ride
at high speeds. was surprised at how fast you had to turn that SON hub
before the
flicker evened out let alone disappeared.

Again, this puzzles me. What light source was wired to the SON hub you
tried? Did you actually ride this bike outside in the dark, or were you
somehow spinning the hub while stationary? You seem to be observing
something that's not commonly seen - at least, above 4 or 5 mph.

It reminded me of those ancient bottle dynamos running against the
tire sidewalls
but the SON is a heck of a lot more money.

Another mystery! I still use bottle dynamos on a couple bikes. I've
never seen such flickering. (BTW, bottle dynamos run at a much higher
AC frequency than hub dynamos, which makes the flicker you describe even
less likely.)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/15/2016 8:58 AM, Duane wrote:

I remember seeing a train of guys doing some loaded touring around Trois
Rivieres Quebec and in the hills they looked like they had strobes. Not
sure which type of dynamos they had but just noticed them as we passed.
Maybe that's what SRA is saying.

And are you sure they didn't actually have strobes? If you just noticed
them as you passed, seems it would be difficult to tell that they had
SON (or Shimano, or Shutter Precision...) hubs powering their headlights.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:22:02 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:

That's right. Even my SA GH-6 DynoHub, which flickers and,
in the best British tradition, "spans a range from dim to
dark"[1], is perfectly adequate and suitable for me. I am
not Sir, who may well have different needs or opinions.

[1] Rumored Lucas advertising phrase

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Aren't you one of those masochists who kept an MG for longer than a week?* Sounds to me like Lucas, Prince of Darkness**, had a hand in the design of your bike dynamo as well.

Andre Jute
*So as not to be caught out as a hypocrite, I kept a TC that I bought from an architect in Pretoria in excellent near-new condition for several months because it was so beautifully proportioned. But it was a gutless little thing, dying of respiratory disease at 65 or maybe 70mph. My Lancia Fulvia, a girlie-car if there ever was once, was much, much faster. I sold the TC to a German engineer who should have known better but who was besotted with it for seven times what I paid the architect.
**A phrase I first heard from Artur Pizarro, the Portuguese pianist, who also had an MG.