Jobst

On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 16:49:29 -0400, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per :
High numbers of deaths from hospital acquired infections really only
tells you that the general population is not very healthy.

And in the USA that is primarily from a large illegal and legal
immigrant population that has arrived from countries that do not have
particularly good health.

How about antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria like MERSA?

Most (but interestingly not all) antibiotic resistant bacteria evolved
in countries with advanced health care that over-used antibiotics in
humans and livestock.

MRSA (pronounced "mersa" by some) is almost piffling compared to some of
the baddies out there now. VRE and C. difficile seem to be increasing
in my experience; ESBLs and CRE infections are much scarier as they can
actively combat antibiotics many of the latest antibiotics- it's not a
simple matter of resistance. I have had a small number of patients with
ESBL urinary tract infections and thus far the mortality rate has been
50%. As is often the case, those most susceptible to infection are
those already weakened by other health problems, typically chronic
diseases they have had for years. I have not seen any cases of CRE yet
in the settings I work in. As a psychologist I do not have any need for
physical contact with my patients, but I am having to glove/gown/mask
more often now than any time in the past 27 years.

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:32:48 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
Without an educated populace the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing
for an educated population is a fool's dream. And here we are.

Yep. And unfortunately there is a large percentage of the American
population who have opted to be stupid and proud of it.

I have said this before and will say it again. I have for decades
thought that a class in logic ought to be required in every high school.
In a participatory form of government- like, you know, democracy, a
basic level of non-idiocy is required for success.

Unfortunately someone decided that "education creates liberals," and
thus far too many politicians have decided to oppose competent public
education (at least here, don't know about other parts of the country).
Here I'll sound like a conservative: schools need to have standards and
accountability for behavior and educational performance, parents (or
someone in the home) need to be actively involved in their children's
scholastic life. And we need to recognize that not everyone wants to or
is able to attend college successfully, which seems to be the current
goal of Americam education policy; there should be multiple educational
tracks available to help students acquire the skills they need to be
successful.

One thing I heard from Trump a while back was having some sort of system
for apprenticeships, which Germany- probably among others- has done with
success for decades; haven't heard a peep about it since, so maybe it
fell off the radar. I think that would be a good idea. In my state we
seem intent on dismantling the trade schools because of the emphasis on
college as the be-all and end-all of education.

On Sun, 3 Sep 2017 09:44:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 8:29:00 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

I believe that your, much described, brain damage is showing up in
your posts. What in the world does the amount that a U.S. doctor is
paid have to do with the wealth of a Thai doctor.


I'm becoming more and more sure that your brain damage is effecting
your posts as we aren't discussing a socialized medicine system. In
fact in rereading the above I mentioned "government service", "private
hospitals" and that "doctors that work in government hospitals have
private clinics".

Exactly what are you arguing? A Thai doctor can't even afford an American medical education unless after graduation he works in America for a couple of years.

I can only say that I have known at least three doctors that I am
certain obtained their medical education and were board certified in
the U.S. One of whom was the Senior Surgeon in the USAF hospital at
Takhili RTAFB in 1969, under contact to the U.S. Air Force.

In addition it is quite possible for a Thai who is a graduate MD to
obtain a redundancy in a U.S. hospital and obtain his board
qualifications.

"In addition, Sondheimer said that it is fairly common for graduates
of foreign medical schools to do their residency in America. We are
not graduating enough graduates in the U.S. to fill all the first year
residency positions, he said. So the rest of those spots get filled
by people from overseas medical schools."

(Dr. Henry Sondheimer, the senior director of medical education at the
AAMC (Association of American Medical Colleges).

Good Lord, the recent King's father attended medical school in the
U.S.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:32:48 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/2/2017 6:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/2/2017 4:49 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per :
High numbers of deaths from hospital acquired infections
really only tells you that the general population is not
very healthy.

And in the USA that is primarily from a large illegal and
legal immigrant population that has arrived from
countries that do not have particularly good health.

How about antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria like
MERSA?

That's the fault of the liberals. Tom will explain how.



He may well, but it's an equal-time offense.

One of our customers heads up the antibiotic abuse research
section at Inst. Pasteur in France. He corroborates a
Milwaukee GP's complaint that mothers bring in children with
viruses and insist on antibiotics right now. No prescription
= 'bad doctor', a label which can devastate a clinic's
practice as the mothers all gossip. Similar problem with
opiates for every little thing. Without an educated populace
the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing for an educated
population is a fool's dream. And here we are.

Years ago I was in Singapore and developed a bad case of "flu". As the
company paid for medical I hied off to the doctor who took a chest
X-ray and did this and that and said "too bad you don't have
pneumonia". When I question that he said that if I had pneumonia he'd
give me one shot of penicillin and I'd be cured, but there wasn't any
medicine for the flu. "Buy some Tylenol, maybe it'll will make you
feel better".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 8:06:23 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:32:48 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
Without an educated populace the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing
for an educated population is a fool's dream. And here we are.

Yep. And unfortunately there is a large percentage of the American
population who have opted to be stupid and proud of it.


And unfortunately, they're incredibly fertile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDGGZpAmZr4

President Camacho 2020!

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 21:33:39 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 15:02:04 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/2/2017 2:37 PM, wrote:

I worked on many medical instruments and the company managers didn't
want us to even go into hospitals during tests. Every possible
bacteria is floating around ANY hospital. High numbers of deaths from
hospital acquired infections really only tells you that the general
population is not very healthy.

And in the USA that is primarily from a large illegal and legal
immigrant population that has arrived from countries that do not have
particularly good health.


That's true, and historically very high at the moment.

No, it's not true that legal and illegal immigrants are to blame for
this. Most of the burden of health care costs in America are the result
of treating chronic illnesses: hypertension, hyperlipidemia, obesity,
diabetes, COPD, arthritis, etc. Most of those are "natural born"
Americans



The last time foreign-born people living here were at this high a
proportion,

Got a cite for that? 'Cuz immigrants been coming to the US every day of
my life so far. It's not like that has ever stopped in the past 58
years. Just with back of the envelope figuring, which may no tbe
accurate, it seems like the percentage of imigrants in the US is now
lower than during the majority of US history. That's how your family
got here. And mine. Famine Irish on my Dad's side; not sure my Mom's
German ancestors came to the US. Every human living in America is the
descendant of an immigrant.


Actually almost everyone's ancestors have been coming to the Americas
for about, if you want to include the Scandinavians, a thousand years
:-) More recently, the late comers, arrived beginning in the 1500's.

The original inhabitants, due to a very poorly thought out immigration
policy, seem to make up about 0.9% of the U.S. population, as of a
2017 estimate.

...we ended up with The Chinese Exclusion Act as a reaction
and much similar legislation through to the Johnson Reed Act after
which immigration was minimal for the next 30 years.

American companies actively sought out Chinese workers to come to the
US- having agents in China sign them up, provide transportation to the
US, etc. That was how the western half of the transcontinental railroad
got built. Without that, there would have been a fraction of
immigration from China than there was. They came because they were
needed and because they were cheaper than hiring white people.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 22:06:16 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:32:48 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
Without an educated populace the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing
for an educated population is a fool's dream. And here we are.

Yep. And unfortunately there is a large percentage of the American
population who have opted to be stupid and proud of it.

I have said this before and will say it again. I have for decades
thought that a class in logic ought to be required in every high school.
In a participatory form of government- like, you know, democracy, a
basic level of non-idiocy is required for success.

Unfortunately someone decided that "education creates liberals," and
thus far too many politicians have decided to oppose competent public
education (at least here, don't know about other parts of the country).
Here I'll sound like a conservative: schools need to have standards and
accountability for behavior and educational performance, parents (or
someone in the home) need to be actively involved in their children's
scholastic life. And we need to recognize that not everyone wants to or
is able to attend college successfully, which seems to be the current
goal of Americam education policy; there should be multiple educational
tracks available to help students acquire the skills they need to be
successful.

One thing I heard from Trump a while back was having some sort of system
for apprenticeships, which Germany- probably among others- has done with
success for decades; haven't heard a peep about it since, so maybe it
fell off the radar. I think that would be a good idea. In my state we
seem intent on dismantling the trade schools because of the emphasis on
college as the be-all and end-all of education.

Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham
Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an
apprenticeship program.

It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for the
manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades became
obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to knead
tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand?

I completed an apprenticeship to be a "Machinist", although I
subsequently went to an engineering school, but I can remember as
early as the mid-late 1960's that very little work for a qualified
machinist existed. One or maybe two in a big shop and the rest were
machine operators.

I know that The Donald talked about apprenticeships, and increasing
employment, and increasing minimum salaries, and reducing costs, and,
and, but I haven't seen much progress being made.

Now there is an exercise in logic. (1) Increase wages which certainly
contributes to higher sales prices, and (2) reduce costs?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 9/3/2017 10:06 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:32:48 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
Without an educated populace the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing
for an educated population is a fool's dream. And here we are.

Yep. And unfortunately there is a large percentage of the American
population who have opted to be stupid and proud of it.

I have said this before and will say it again. I have for decades
thought that a class in logic ought to be required in every high school.
In a participatory form of government- like, you know, democracy, a
basic level of non-idiocy is required for success.

Unfortunately someone decided that "education creates liberals," and
thus far too many politicians have decided to oppose competent public
education (at least here, don't know about other parts of the country).
Here I'll sound like a conservative: schools need to have standards and
accountability for behavior and educational performance, parents (or
someone in the home) need to be actively involved in their children's
scholastic life. And we need to recognize that not everyone wants to or
is able to attend college successfully, which seems to be the current
goal of Americam education policy; there should be multiple educational
tracks available to help students acquire the skills they need to be
successful.

One thing I heard from Trump a while back was having some sort of system
for apprenticeships, which Germany- probably among others- has done with
success for decades; haven't heard a peep about it since, so maybe it
fell off the radar. I think that would be a good idea. In my state we
seem intent on dismantling the trade schools because of the emphasis on
college as the be-all and end-all of education.


I see the problems much as you do but out in the real world,
"everyone ought to..." scares the crap out of me.

My youngest brother was a football player at a major
university, functionally illiterate yet with a 4-year degree
and fantastic GPA. After a few lost years he finally cleaned
himself up, completed an MBA and turned out OK while many of
his cohort never survived the post football years of alcohol
drugs and general dissolution. You make a rule and half the
staff will go around it either through indolence or avarice.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/4/2017 12:49 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 22:06:16 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:32:48 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
Without an educated populace the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing
for an educated population is a fool's dream. And here we are.

Yep. And unfortunately there is a large percentage of the American
population who have opted to be stupid and proud of it.

I have said this before and will say it again. I have for decades
thought that a class in logic ought to be required in every high school.
In a participatory form of government- like, you know, democracy, a
basic level of non-idiocy is required for success.

Unfortunately someone decided that "education creates liberals," and
thus far too many politicians have decided to oppose competent public
education (at least here, don't know about other parts of the country).
Here I'll sound like a conservative: schools need to have standards and
accountability for behavior and educational performance, parents (or
someone in the home) need to be actively involved in their children's
scholastic life. And we need to recognize that not everyone wants to or
is able to attend college successfully, which seems to be the current
goal of Americam education policy; there should be multiple educational
tracks available to help students acquire the skills they need to be
successful.

One thing I heard from Trump a while back was having some sort of system
for apprenticeships, which Germany- probably among others- has done with
success for decades; haven't heard a peep about it since, so maybe it
fell off the radar. I think that would be a good idea. In my state we
seem intent on dismantling the trade schools because of the emphasis on
college as the be-all and end-all of education.

Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham
Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an
apprenticeship program.

It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for the
manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades became
obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to knead
tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand?

I completed an apprenticeship to be a "Machinist", although I
subsequently went to an engineering school, but I can remember as
early as the mid-late 1960's that very little work for a qualified
machinist existed. One or maybe two in a big shop and the rest were
machine operators.

I know that The Donald talked about apprenticeships, and increasing
employment, and increasing minimum salaries, and reducing costs, and,
and, but I haven't seen much progress being made.

Now there is an exercise in logic. (1) Increase wages which certainly
contributes to higher sales prices, and (2) reduce costs?


Mayor Comerade Bill in NYC says that increasing cigarette
taxes will stop smoking but increasing the minimum wage will
not stop employment.

Hey Tim McNamara - could you loan him a logic textbook?


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 6:14:32 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/4/2017 12:49 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 22:06:16 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:32:48 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
Without an educated populace the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing
for an educated population is a fool's dream. And here we are.

Yep. And unfortunately there is a large percentage of the American
population who have opted to be stupid and proud of it.

I have said this before and will say it again. I have for decades
thought that a class in logic ought to be required in every high school.
In a participatory form of government- like, you know, democracy, a
basic level of non-idiocy is required for success.

Unfortunately someone decided that "education creates liberals," and
thus far too many politicians have decided to oppose competent public
education (at least here, don't know about other parts of the country)..
Here I'll sound like a conservative: schools need to have standards and
accountability for behavior and educational performance, parents (or
someone in the home) need to be actively involved in their children's
scholastic life. And we need to recognize that not everyone wants to or
is able to attend college successfully, which seems to be the current
goal of Americam education policy; there should be multiple educational
tracks available to help students acquire the skills they need to be
successful.

One thing I heard from Trump a while back was having some sort of system
for apprenticeships, which Germany- probably among others- has done with
success for decades; haven't heard a peep about it since, so maybe it
fell off the radar. I think that would be a good idea. In my state we
seem intent on dismantling the trade schools because of the emphasis on
college as the be-all and end-all of education.

Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham
Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an
apprenticeship program.

It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for the
manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades became
obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to knead
tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand?

I completed an apprenticeship to be a "Machinist", although I
subsequently went to an engineering school, but I can remember as
early as the mid-late 1960's that very little work for a qualified
machinist existed. One or maybe two in a big shop and the rest were
machine operators.

I know that The Donald talked about apprenticeships, and increasing
employment, and increasing minimum salaries, and reducing costs, and,
and, but I haven't seen much progress being made.

Now there is an exercise in logic. (1) Increase wages which certainly
contributes to higher sales prices, and (2) reduce costs?


Mayor Comerade Bill in NYC says that increasing cigarette
taxes will stop smoking but increasing the minimum wage will
not stop employment.

Hey Tim McNamara - could you loan him a logic textbook?

Well, you can pass the cost of wages along in price, assuming price elasticity. Smokers don't have a similar option for increasing revenues to cover the cost of cigarettes -- so the markets do operate differently. Paying a higher minimum wage also stimulates the economy because workers have more buying power. It's trickle-up instead of trickle-down. My son earned sh** in a bike shop and then took all his earnings and bought a bike from the shop. Good discount, but still a money maker for the shop.

-- Jay Beattie.