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Stronger rubber cement?



 
 
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  #151  
Old January 18th 17, 12:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

analog,

I will not explain tire mounting again. Retard at your own speed

Ads
  #152  
Old January 18th 17, 12:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Barry Beams
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Posts: 42
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 5:04:38 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Tubulars by design are more puncture resistant than clinchers.
Continental tubulars are amazingly puncture resistant tires. My Sprinters have never flatted on me and are my standard tire when on road bike rides. Only their extra-light stuff like Podiums have ever flatted on me.
  #153  
Old January 18th 17, 12:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Posts: 1,424
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 3:26:13 PM UTC-8, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
analog,

I will not explain tire mounting again. Retard at your own speed


I shall talk with this Humongous. I'm sure he's a reasonable man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gecX6ofQJHc
  #154  
Old January 18th 17, 02:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:52:53 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 1/16/2017 7:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:23:53 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.


Strange. My LBS is a chain of two large shops in Bangkok, and a large
number of agents scattered all over the country, and is the largest
bicycle business in Thailand. They sell predominantly road bikes and
the sales manager tells me that a very large portion of the bikes that
they sell are Carbon. In fact she said that it was much easier to sell
a carbon bike than an aluminum bike.

Do you live in some poor, improvised, area where people can't afford
decent equipment :-?

I wonder whether Andrew's business depends on broken mountain bikes
and cheap walmart stuff?


We don't depend on it. But we've outlived a great number of
other shops in part because we are not snobs and are as
helpful as patience permits with the usual crap. The owners
of the usual crap are just as human as anyone else and
respond well to a kind word.


You have discovered the secret of success :-) Be a nice guy.

Years ago I patronized a tiny little hardware shop because the old guy
(been there for years) that ran it seemed to want to help the
customer. I needed a 3 foot section of "heat tape" once to reach all
the way to the end of my new water pipe and he ordered it from Boston.
A $3.00 item.

Eventually the old fellow either died or retired and his son took over
and he was not only a surly brute but the "bottom line" became the
critical factor. Sure he'd order something from Boston... if it was a
$50 order.

The shop closed in about a year.


I'm thinking here of a particular customer. He bought a
stereo system which included a 'free' bike. Two other shops
gave him an earful and threw him out. Our employee adjusted
the seat and bars, made the brakes functional and improved
it from a death trap to a lousy bicycle in a few minutes'
time. He became a regular customer for many years with new
very nice bikes eventually.

Quick frame repair during a party while wearing a hula skirt:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/hulaweld.jpg

Owner needed it ASAP to go to work.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #155  
Old January 18th 17, 02:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 10:27:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/16/2017 11:10 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 10:28:41 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.

Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb

-- Jay Beattie.


Read Joerg's post from over the years and you'll see that Joerg takes great delight in complaining. Joerg does not want/need a bicycle - he needs/wants a pedal powered motorcycle.

For his bicycle he should just buy solid rubber tires and be done with every needing to fix a flat or pump them up.


Seriously, Joerg, why are you _not_ using solid tires? (I mean, except
for the general principle that nothing ever works for Joerg.)

Yes, they would be heavy and slow, but you've said dozens of times that
you don't care about that. They would be rugged and thorn proof. The
sidewalls would never blow out.

Is it because you'd have to stop typing your sound effects?
("Kabloooeeee!")


After the "Ka pow" post I got to thinking. I've never seen a tire
sidewall fail except when the tire was run with no, or very low,
pressure. It is fairly common on large trucks. One tire of a dual tire
set gets a leak and runs flat for a while and the heat build up causes
the tire to nearly disintegrate. My wife had one a while ago. Never
checks her tires and set off on a 300 Km trip on a high speed highway
with "soft" tires. Ka pow!

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #156  
Old January 18th 17, 02:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 07:55:12 +1100, James
wrote:

Why not put some of Stans goop in the inner tubes and seal them from the
inside?


http://www.notubes.com
http://www.notubes.com/Sealant-C14.aspx
http://www.notubes.com/help/tubelessexplainedanddemystified.aspx
Kinda looks like it's made to allow mountain bikes to run without any
tubes by filling the tires with I suspect is expanding urethane foam.

I guess I haven't done this because my rims are not air tight, my
tires probably don't make a good seal with the rim, and I really don't
need such a drastic change. All I need are inner tubes that don't
slowly leak. However, there are some claims on the last URL that
tubeless tires have a lower rolling resistance. No numbers found, so
I'll treat that as speculation.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #157  
Old January 18th 17, 02:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:50:19 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 19:28, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.


Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb


Care to compare the number of vehicles plus the miles traveled? Maybe
then it becomes more clear. Cars are way more reliable than bicycles.
Especially if you buy top quality cars like we did. Other than regular
scheduled maintenance there were no breakdowns in the whole two decades
we own them. None, as in zero. Not even one flat tire. Try that with a
bicycle.


You talk about your auto escapades as hauling a half a cord of wood in
your SUV. You describe your bicycle riding as speeding down rocky
hills, leaping over bumps and unexpectedly diving into lakes.

If you drove your car the way that you claim to ride your bike I think
that you would have a very different concept of how bullet proof your
car is.

I've spent considerable time around trucks that haul heavy loads over
unimproved roads and my experience was that they definitely did
require frequent repairs.

I've also been around off the road racing cars and they took even more
maintenance than the trucks.

As usual, you are not comparing apples and apples.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #158  
Old January 18th 17, 03:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 06:48:12 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:38:15 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:51:38 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:05:43 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

The idea of two pounds worth of tubes to avoid putting air in my tires
doesn't parse at all.

Let's do it by the numbers.

The tubes I usually buy are these:
http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10053_10052_175629_-1___205038
26x1.5" for $4.79ea. They weigh 176g (0.39 lbs) and they leak air.

The proposed leak proof tubes:
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn-Resistant-Presta-Valve/dp/B0063R2GJW/
26x1.5" for $15.36ea. These weigh 572g (1.26 lbs).

For two tires, that a difference of:
2 * (1.26 - 0.39) = 1.74 lbs (789g)
Not quite 2 lbs but close enough.

The average 26x1.5" tire

seems to weigh about 550g (1.2 lbs). Ignoring the weight of the
wheel, with these tubes the rotating weight will increase by:
1.74 / (2 * (1.2 + 0.39)) = 55%

Offhand, it seems a bit too heavy to be worthwhile.

Please note that my original problem was not to find the best thorn
proof tire, but rather one that doesn't leak out of the box. I don't
seem to experience any sudden releases of air, but instead get slow
leaks. On the wheels in question, I ride on pavement.


Inner tubes come in a myriad types and prices. If you buy the absolute
lightest, thinnest, tubes, they will leak, but if you buy thicker
inner tubes they will usually be cheaper and may leak a bit but not to
the "pump them up every day" extent.

It used to be that "sew ups", or "tubular's", were the last word in
bicycle tires and, as I remember it, they did require pumping up
practically every time you got on the bike. (and I don't remember
anyone complaining about it :-)


Tubulars are still the last word in bicycle tires and what the pros ride, but they have

professional support staff who are physically fit and skilled in the
complex operation of floor pumps and other precision machinery. Most
of us do not have the intelligence or fitness necessary to operate a
floor pump -- and certainly not on a daily basis. My wife and I have
more robust tires on our bike that we have professionally pumped once
a year.
http://www.loupiote.com/photos_m/796...re-bicycle.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.


Gee, the U.S. must be a real "Alice" country. Professional tire
pumpers :-)


--
Cheers,

John B.

  #159  
Old January 18th 17, 03:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:33:24 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:38:12 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Inner tubes come in a myriad types and prices. If you buy the absolute
lightest, thinnest, tubes, they will leak, but if you buy thicker
inner tubes they will usually be cheaper and may leak a bit but not to
the "pump them up every day" extent.


Yep. That was also my theory. I would buy the cheapest tubes
available from a reputable discounter and expect to receive moderately
heavy and presumably thick inner tubes. I don't have a small
collection of cheap inner tubes. All seem to leak very slowly.

I keep planning to drag a few tubes down to the local auto tire
dealer, who has a proper dunk tank, and look for bubbles. I expect
the leaks to be really obvious as inflating the inner tube to a low
pressure without it being confined in a tire, causes any tiny holes to
greatly expand. For what it's worth, the tubes that seem to leak the
least were bought at a department store (K-mart).

It used to be that "sew ups", or "tubular's", were the last word in
bicycle tires and, as I remember it, they did require pumping up
practically every time you got on the bike. (and I don't remember
anyone complaining about it :-)


I have a set of wheels with sew ups somewhere. I last used them maybe
40 years ago. I've never raced, so sew ups offer no benefits to me. I
wonder if they still will hold air?


When you have a flat they are much faster to fix. Just rip the flat
off the rim and stick on another from the collection you have strapped
under the seat :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #160  
Old January 18th 17, 03:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 5:59:34 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:50:19 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 19:28, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.

Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb


Care to compare the number of vehicles plus the miles traveled? Maybe
then it becomes more clear. Cars are way more reliable than bicycles.
Especially if you buy top quality cars like we did. Other than regular
scheduled maintenance there were no breakdowns in the whole two decades
we own them. None, as in zero. Not even one flat tire. Try that with a
bicycle.


You talk about your auto escapades as hauling a half a cord of wood in
your SUV. You describe your bicycle riding as speeding down rocky
hills, leaping over bumps and unexpectedly diving into lakes.

If you drove your car the way that you claim to ride your bike I think
that you would have a very different concept of how bullet proof your
car is.

I've spent considerable time around trucks that haul heavy loads over
unimproved roads and my experience was that they definitely did
require frequent repairs.

I've also been around off the road racing cars and they took even more
maintenance than the trucks.

As usual, you are not comparing apples and apples.


I ride with a guy who races motorcycles. He can go through a set of tires over the course of weekend -- and they cost a mint. Talk about an expensive hobby.

-- Jay Beattie.
 




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