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Carbon Fiber Seat Stays = Better Ride?
Steve Sr. wrote:
I have seen carbon fiber seat stays being advertized as improving the "comfort" and the ride "quality" of a bike. Serotta even goes so far as putting a bearing at the dropout end on their high end bikes to allow the seat stays to flex and act as springs to soften the ride. Or at least this is what is claimed. Other manufacturers make similar claims. So given a regular full titanium frame like a Litespeed Tuscany how much if any difference would be made by having the seat stays made of carbon fiber? Would the difference be noticeable or not? Has anybody done any _quantatative_ measurements or studies on this or is it all subjective? Thanks for your thoughts. Steve It is a mystery to me how any frame maker can say a titanim frame,that lasts forever and having a wonderful ride, can be improved with carbon plugs or a supported at both ends, carbon rear end glued in. Stays don't flex up and down an amount that would make any difference. On an aluminum frame, the chainstays don't flex at all, and a non compressable stay is the stuff of marketing. It is an unneceassary addition that makes things more expensive, less reliable. |
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#2
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Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
Steve Sr. wrote: I have seen carbon fiber seat stays being advertized as improving the "comfort" and the ride "quality" of a bike. Serotta even goes so far as putting a bearing at the dropout end on their high end bikes to allow the seat stays to flex and act as springs to soften the ride. Or at least this is what is claimed. Other manufacturers make similar claims. So given a regular full titanium frame like a Litespeed Tuscany how much if any difference would be made by having the seat stays made of carbon fiber? Would the difference be noticeable or not? Has anybody done any _quantatative_ measurements or studies on this or is it all subjective? Thanks for your thoughts. Steve It is a mystery to me how any frame maker can say a titanim frame,that lasts forever and having a wonderful ride, can be improved with carbon plugs or a supported at both ends, carbon rear end glued in. Stays don't flex up and down an amount that would make any difference. On an aluminum frame, the chainstays don't flex at all, and a non compressable stay is the stuff of marketing. It is an unneceassary addition that makes things more expensive, less reliable. Not surprised at what Serotta says tho. Ben seems to climb on every gadget bandwagon that comes along... |
#3
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"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message news:1113396856.a7e9df991cd0dd1101ec6ac0d853c57b@t eranews... Steve Sr. wrote: I have seen carbon fiber seat stays being advertized as improving the "comfort" and the ride "quality" of a bike. Serotta even goes so far as putting a bearing at the dropout end on their high end bikes to allow the seat stays to flex and act as springs to soften the ride. Or at least this is what is claimed. Other manufacturers make similar claims. So given a regular full titanium frame like a Litespeed Tuscany how much if any difference would be made by having the seat stays made of carbon fiber? Would the difference be noticeable or not? Has anybody done any _quantatative_ measurements or studies on this or is it all subjective? Thanks for your thoughts. Steve It is a mystery to me how any frame maker can say a titanim frame,that lasts forever and having a wonderful ride, can be improved with carbon plugs or a supported at both ends, carbon rear end glued in. Stays don't flex up and down an amount that would make any difference. On an aluminum frame, the chainstays don't flex at all, and a non compressable stay is the stuff of marketing. It is an unneceassary addition that makes things more expensive, less reliable. Peter, do you say/think that there is a noticeable difference in vertical flex between a aluminium and titanium rear triangle? Lou |
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Lou Holtman wrote:
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message news:1113396856.a7e9df991cd0dd1101ec6ac0d853c57b@t eranews... Steve Sr. wrote: I have seen carbon fiber seat stays being advertized as improving the "comfort" and the ride "quality" of a bike. Serotta even goes so far as putting a bearing at the dropout end on their high end bikes to allow the seat stays to flex and act as springs to soften the ride. Or at least this is what is claimed. Other manufacturers make similar claims. So given a regular full titanium frame like a Litespeed Tuscany how much if any difference would be made by having the seat stays made of carbon fiber? Would the difference be noticeable or not? Has anybody done any _quantatative_ measurements or studies on this or is it all subjective? Thanks for your thoughts. Steve It is a mystery to me how any frame maker can say a titanim frame,that lasts forever and having a wonderful ride, can be improved with carbon plugs or a supported at both ends, carbon rear end glued in. Stays don't flex up and down an amount that would make any difference. On an aluminum frame, the chainstays don't flex at all, and a non compressable stay is the stuff of marketing. It is an unneceassary addition that makes things more expensive, less reliable. Peter, do you say/think that there is a noticeable difference in vertical flex between a aluminium and titanium rear triangle? Lou Can't say because I am riding the bicycle and not really testing the small part of frameset. I can say that after riding lots of carbon butt ended frames and non-I can't tell any difference. |
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Steve Sr. wrote: I have seen carbon fiber seat stays being advertized as improving the "comfort" and the ride "quality" of a bike. Serrota is behind the times, they're building the bike backwards.... check this out quote.. "Isaac Force Perhaps the only significant frame innovation of the Twenty-First Century, the Isaac Force heralds a unique and truly revolutionary featu Force Transfer Aluminium seat stays. The aluminium stays give improved lateral and torsional stiffness, and improved robustness - all whilst maintaining a very low weight. The Isaac Force combines all the advantages of a highly advanced carbon-composite monocoque frame with the outstanding mechanical properties of 7000 series alloy tube - only where it is needed" end quote http://www.isaac-carbon.com/index3.htm, scroll around a bit. Pinarello SuperEgo, carbon lugs, magnesium main tubes, AL stays, Reynolds 531 fork, a bike to make everyone happy. Scott G. |
#6
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Qui si parla Campagnolo writes:
It is a mystery to me how any frame maker can say a titanim frame,that lasts forever and having a wonderful ride, can be improved with carbon plugs or a supported at both ends, carbon rear end glued in. Stays don't flex up and down an amount that would make any difference. On an aluminum frame, the chainstays don't flex at all, and a non compressable stay is the stuff of marketing. Not a mystery to me! The pure titanium frame, which lasts forever, results in zero resales to the same customer. The frameset with carbon plugs and rear end glued in will fail, resulting in future sales from said deadbeat customer. darned if those carbon stays don't feel better than that pure unrustable titanium which feels horrible !!! - Don Gillies San Diego, CA |
#7
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#8
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Announcing !!! The HybridTube bicycle !!!
Aluminum oversized downtube. Strong where you need it most. For extra stiffness we use a 2" downtube. Strength is enhanced by our special need-specific tube shaping (NSTS) which shapes the downtube in the shape of a "$" (dollar bill.) Titanium top tube. When you've got something to compress, nothing compresses like titanium. Carbon rear stay. We make the rear stays carbon because the front fork is probably carbon and it just doesn't make sense to be coming with carbon without going with carbon as well. Bottom bracket. This is steel in order to inhibit flexion in this critical area. Seat Tube. The seat tube is probably the greatest afterthought in bicycle design today. Therefore, we use one of the most unconsidered materials of all time in the seat tube, pure, flame-enhancing magnesium. Because of it's protected location in the middle of the bike, we feel the risk of flash fires due to sparks during a crash has been held to an absolute minimum. Head tube. In order to bring this frame to you at an attractive price, we use an investment-cast head tube with integral lugs. This head tube is cast from space-age resin mixed with a proven material straight from the "old school" of bicycle design : bamboo. There you have it. The most significant bicycle frameset development of 2005 (**). - Don Gillies San Diego, CA (**) (April 13, 3:20-3:23 time period.) |
#10
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In article , Steve Sr.
wrote: I have seen carbon fiber seat stays being advertized as improving the "comfort" and the ride "quality" of a bike. Serotta even goes so far as putting a bearing at the dropout end on their high end bikes to allow the seat stays to flex and act as springs to soften the ride. Or at least this is what is claimed. Other manufacturers make similar claims. So given a regular full titanium frame like a Litespeed Tuscany how much if any difference would be made by having the seat stays made of carbon fiber? Would the difference be noticeable or not? Has anybody done any _quantatative_ measurements or studies on this or is it all subjective? Thanks for your thoughts. Steve Steve, I had the opportunity to test rode two bikes of the same model but a different year. The Devinci Silverstone 105 (2004) is all full Optimum 61 aluminium frame, whereas the 2005 model is the hybrid Optimum 61 AL frame with carbon stays. The verdict? They both ride the same. I also tested a Trek 2300 with carbon stays and that didn't improve vibration damping at all, or what the hype led me to believe. Certainly, not worth the extra cash that Trek wants. In fact, I was totally surprised at how smooth and dampened the ride quality of the CAAD 7 Optimo frame that's on the Cannondale R700. A tad bit harsher than my carbon bike, but for 1/4 the price, it's a steal and it's an all full aluminium frame! Just unbelievable. Lots of makers are putting out these bonded frames as a way to get people to buy new bikes and I think it's working. I see a lot of people riding with these bonded bikes all around, thinking that they have a soft tail road bike. That is just incredible. David. |
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