"Liquid Drive" bike prototype at auction

Why are tandems more popular in some places while not in others?

This year I've spotted 2 recumbents, 3 upright trikes, 1 folding
bike in the wild (only counting sightings in Finland). Don't
recall seeing a tandem ever.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

In rec.bicycles.misc Carl Fogel wrote:

: The recumbents that I see in my little backwater
: in Pueblo, Colorado, must be the equivalent of
: the inexpensive mountain bikes sold at WalMart.
: The riders sit higher, their feet are lower, the
: wheels are larger, and the chain runs seem much
: more straightforward than that Rube Goldberg

Not necessarily, they sound more like touring bents by your
description. Go read some recumbent websites (there's plenty) for
info on all the designs out there :-)

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

(Carl Fogel) wrote in message . com...

You know how to pander to my chain fantasies.
It's so much easier to ask than to think. I'd
never thought about how a longer chain should
last longer and cross-chain with less angle
between the front and rear sprockets.

Your two pictures delight me, though perhaps
not in the way that you intended. I feel like
someone who's never seen anything but labradors
stumbling over his first basset hound. Those
(no offense intended) are some weird-looking
bikes.

The recumbents that I see in my little backwater
in Pueblo, Colorado, must be the equivalent of
the inexpensive mountain bikes sold at WalMart.
The riders sit higher, their feet are lower, the
wheels are larger, and the chain runs seem much
more straightforward than that Rube Goldberg
contraption in your second--I mean your beloved
current bike, the one in your second picture.

If you'll pardon a somewhat personal question,
do the chains on the more complicated bike give
any trouble in terms of staying on? That is, do
you need some recumbent-specific chain-watchers
to tame the unruly beasts beyond the guide-wheels?

Thanks for a marvelous answer,

Carl, I'll entertain you with a few more pics.

http://www.biketcba.org/TRICORR/vrex2.jpg
http://www.biketcba.org/TRICORR/mgruizenga.jpg

The first one is of my slightly customized V-Rex. It has a pretty
straight chainline, with only one power side idler to prevent too much
chain slap. It's never come off, although it once jumped the return
idler by the fork. It has an ISO 507 (24") rear wheel and an ISO 451
(20") front wheel. This model is considered a 'sport' model, and it's
the equivalent to a mid-level road bike. Both of Tom's bikes would be
considered 'faster' bikes. The 30/44/56 chainrings shift a little
balkily, but as Tom wrote, larger rings do that; and it spends most of
its time in the big ring anyway. OBTW it takes about two and a half
chains , which seem to last about 10,000 miles.

By far the most common recumbent model in my club is the TourEasy. The
second pic is of one of the club members on his aluminum-framed model.
These bikes have the rider sitting more upright, but they are made to
be used in conjunction with the fairing you see. Keeping the rider
relatively close to the fairing helps aerodynamics, so the bike you
see is not slow. In fact, the speed demons of the club put body socks
on the bikes, in effect making lycra-bodied streamliners. They ride
with the 'A' riders in a swarm, like jet fighters protecting a bomber
squadron. The smell-the-roses riders like this model too, because the
low pedals make it easy to ride; so if you see one going slow,
consider the engine. TourEasys have no power side idlers, so chain
deflection, even in the extreme gears, is almost unnoticeable.

To relate back to the original subject, I for one would rather
continue to deal with chain routing than to lose efficiency or gain
too much extra weight with a hydraulic drive system.

Tom Sherman wrote in message ...

On the Sunset (red bike) the chain(s) can fall off the jackshaft cogs
http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/sunset/Sunset005.jpg although that
is a rare occurrence. This is the one weak point in the bike's design as
far as I am concerned, and something I plan to have corrected at some
point.

The rear chain on my Sunset falls off to the inside of the jackshaft
cog almost every time I coast on a rough, high speed descent while in
the smallest rear cassette cog. This is due to a combination of the
chain line and having the lowest chain tension when in the smallest
cog. I'm using a Dura-Ace short cage rear derailer. So once I stop
pedalling on a descent (usually 50-60 km/h range) I shift to a larger
cog towards the middle of the cassette and coast. When I want to pedal
again I start pedalling and simultaneously shift to the smallest rear
cog. The real solution is to put chain guard discs to each side of the
jackshaft cogs.

Interestingly when the chain falls off the jackshaft cog it sits on a
collar next to the cog and I'm able to reach down with my right hand
and put the chain back on the cog. I've done this at speed several
times, in fact twice on one descent last weekend when I was riding
with a tandem. I told them I lost the engine as I reached down and put
it back on the cog. I don't like taking a hand off the handlebars on a
rough descent though and it gets my glove dirty.

Normally for a hilly club ride I'd be riding my Bacchetta Aero which
has much better chain management along with lower weight, less rolling
resistance, superior aerodynamics, a smoother ride and a higher seat
height which makes it easier to talk with riders on conventional bikes
and also more traffic friendly on roads with poor sight lines and/or
lots of SUV's. I wasn't riding the Aero on the ride last weekend as it
wasn't one of the faster paced rides and I wanted to get a reasonable
workout plus I was expecting some wet roads and my Sunset has
mudguards while on the Aero there really isn't provisions for mounting
them, at least on the low clearance carbon fibre road bike fork. You
can see the Aero at www.bacchettabikes.com.

Zach Kaplan

Tom Sherman wrote in message ...
Carl Fogel wrote:
...
The recumbents that I see in my little backwater
in Pueblo, Colorado, must be the equivalent of
the inexpensive mountain bikes sold at WalMart.
The riders sit higher, their feet are lower, the
wheels are larger, and the chain runs seem much
more straightforward than that Rube Goldberg
contraption in your second--I mean your beloved
current bike, the one in your second picture.

This bike fits your verbal description.
http://www.easyracers.com/gold_rush.htm
It is one of the classic recumbent designs, but is hardly "x-Mart" in
quality or price (you can get a rather nice road bike for $3000 US).

Both my former and current bike are rare and unusual by even recumbent
standards - however they provide a good illustration of chain management
issues.

If you'll pardon a somewhat personal question,
do the chains on the more complicated bike give
any trouble in terms of staying on? That is, do
you need some recumbent-specific chain-watchers
to tame the unruly beasts beyond the guide-wheels?

The Wishbone (nickel-plated bike) had the worse chain management, as the
chain would fall off the idlers at a distressing frequency. This could
have been cured by a different idler design that included a "chain dog"
which is a pin or plate that forces the chain to stay in the idler
groove. Most regular production recumbents have these (this bike was
more of a prototype).

On the Sunset (red bike) the chain(s) can fall off the jackshaft cogs
http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/sunset/Sunset005.jpg although that
is a rare occurrence. This is the one weak point in the bike's design as
far as I am concerned, and something I plan to have corrected at some
point.

Thanks for a marvelous answer,

You are welcome.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Dear Tom,

I kept an eye out today, but saw only a few
common mountain bikes.

Stretching a handkerchief over the mouthpiece,
I called the local bike shop near where I've
seen some of these unidentified recumbents
prowling and asked cautiously what sort of
recumbents they sell.

EZ1 was the instant reply, followed by
Cycle Genius and Burley. They can be
obtained from Denver in a day and are
about $600.

http://www.easyracers.com/ez_1_sc.htm

This looks much like the creatures that I've
noticed. I'll take a closer look at the next
one, if I can do so without frightening it,
and try for a positive identification. A
stuffed specimen would be ideal, but I suppose
that there are the usual objections to science.

They usually travel in pairs along the river
trail, possibly feeding on berries or hiding
from predators. Their plumage is somewhat drab,
but in the evening I've seen a few around my
neighborhood with blinking red lights in back.

Their flight may be described as somewhat slow
and wobbly, but cheerful, much like my basset
hound. Possibly these are immature specimens
and improve with age?

Carl Fogel

They usually travel in pairs along the river
trail, possibly feeding on berries or hiding
from predators. Their plumage is somewhat drab,
but in the evening I've seen a few around my
neighborhood with blinking red lights in back.

Their flight may be described as somewhat slow
and wobbly, but cheerful, much like my basset
hound. Possibly these are immature specimens
and improve with age?

Carl Fogel



Some exceedingly rare specimens have evolved to optimize speed, to the
extent that their speed far exceeds that of the common diamond frame
bicycle. They are delicate and nervous creatures, and require
specialized care and feeding, but some have been reliably clocked at
well over 80 miles per hour.

No, that's not a typo. That's over 80 mph, level ground, pedal power,
no energy storage device, and no tailwind. See:
http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisi...02/results.htm

--
Ted Bennett
Portland OR

Tom Sherman wrote in message ...
I occasionally see recumbents wobbling along on
my local bicycle path, but have never inspected
a dead one's anatomy--possibly there is a secret
recumbent graveyard.

I don't know where you you ride but I have never seen a recumbent
wobble along anywhere and I have ridden bents since 1995. Of course
there may be the first time recumbent rider getting used to a new and
different bike. I am not so fast but some of the guys I have ridden
with will break your balls on a long, hard ride.

My bike uses 2 3/4 regular chains, shifts perfectly (XT drive train)
and is trouble-free. Also my butt doesn't hurt and my prostate
troubles got better. That numb feeling you may ocassionally
experience has been known to become permenent. Enjoy your ride.
Richard

I have often wondered how unfaired recumbents compare with standard road
bikes on 30-60 mile rides in mixed terrain (say averaging 100 feet of
climbing per mile) on brisk, but not competitive, rides. I have almost never
seen them here in the Berkeley/Oakland hills. If I had more of an idea of
that I might like to try one.
--
Steve Juniper
"Those who are willing to sacrifice a little freedom for greater
security deserve neither."
-
- Benjamin Franklin

"Richard" wrote in message
om...
Tom Sherman wrote in message
...
I occasionally see recumbents wobbling along on
my local bicycle path, but have never inspected
a dead one's anatomy--possibly there is a secret
recumbent graveyard.

I don't know where you you ride but I have never seen a recumbent
wobble along anywhere and I have ridden bents since 1995. Of course
there may be the first time recumbent rider getting used to a new and
different bike. I am not so fast but some of the guys I have ridden
with will break your balls on a long, hard ride.

My bike uses 2 3/4 regular chains, shifts perfectly (XT drive train)
and is trouble-free. Also my butt doesn't hurt and my prostate
troubles got better. That numb feeling you may ocassionally
experience has been known to become permenent. Enjoy your ride.
Richard

Richard wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote in message ...

I occasionally see recumbents wobbling along on
my local bicycle path, but have never inspected
a dead one's anatomy--possibly there is a secret
recumbent graveyard.

I don't know where you you ride but I have never seen a recumbent
wobble along anywhere and I have ridden bents since 1995. Of course
there may be the first time recumbent rider getting used to a new and
different bike. I am not so fast but some of the guys I have ridden
with will break your balls on a long, hard ride.

I went for a ride with a local cycling group on a local loop
with a varied route, ie. getting off the road at points. We
kept having to wait for the groups recumbent rider to catch
up as he rode the longer road route because it was
impossible for him to lift his bike over fences and ride on
some bumpy offroad track. I imagine he only did it to
increase his mileage.


That numb feeling you may ocassionally
experience has been known to become permenent. Enjoy your ride.

It certainly can make you feel numb listening to a recumbent
rider explain why his choice of bike is better than anyone
else's. It did seem to ease during the pleasant conversation
that was had whilst waiting for him to catch up though,
should have thanked him for the breaks.

Richard wrote:

Tom Sherman wrote in message ...
I occasionally see recumbents wobbling along on
my local bicycle path, but have never inspected
a dead one's anatomy--possibly there is a secret
recumbent graveyard.

I certainly did not write the above text. Please be more careful with
your attributions when quoting.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth