Brooks and myself are resolving issues....

terryc wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:44:08 +1000, Blue Heeler wrote:

Patrick has a unique

naah

and somewhat idiosyncratic view of the world.

Isn't everyone's?

Of course!

But most people don't come out of the closit about it all.

Patrick Turner.

DaveB wrote:

Blue Heeler wrote:
drop bar road, 1* Flat bar road, 1 * MTB and 1 * tourer). You need to
know that the first 200~300km on a new Brooks is not pleasant, the
leather needs time to "break-in", that is mold to your shape. Afte
rthat however, they just keep getting better and better.

Not always. I have 2 Brooks saddles, both B17's. One is the pre-aged
model and is the most comfortable saddle I've ever had. The other is the
std B17 and is pretty much horrible. After 6 months of commuting it was
still awful, and is pretty much now in the spare parts bin.

DaveB

Interesting. I think I may have bought a pre-aged B17 late last year
without knowing it was pre-aged because it got comfy very soon.
And then the leather ssttrreeeechheeeddd out too long on one side and it
became very un-comfy, and the bolt broke and Brooks have replaced it.

The B17 replacement brooks sent seem a lot harder compared to what I
bought last year, but maybe it will hold its basic shape OK like two
others i bought 20 years ago. At 22, pain teaches you to grow, but at 62
pain teaches you that its just painful, and its harder to break in a
saddle.

Patrick Turner.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:44:08 +1000, Blue Heeler said (and I quote):
You need to
know that the first 200~300km on a new Brooks is not pleasant, the
leather needs time to "break-in", that is mold to your shape. Afte
rthat however, they just keep getting better and better.

I have had the opposite experience. A brand new Brooks is the most
comfortable saddle I have ever used, but gets worse as it gets softer.
It doesn't take long - after a couple of weeks my sit bones have worn
deep divots into the leather, making the middle of the saddle
uncomfortably high.

This has happened with two B17s. With one I conditioned it with a
small amount of Dubbin. With the other I used a small amount of the
recommended Proofide. Neither saddle ever got wet.

Other people don't seem to have this problem. Perhaps it's just my bony
arse?
--
What was I thinking?

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:38:58 +0000, Baka Dasai wrote:


Other people don't seem to have this problem. Perhaps it's just my bony
arse?

Nope, I have had both situations. could never work out if it was my
backside, the touring or the run of seat.

In article , Baka Dasai wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:44:08 +1000, Blue Heeler said (and I quote):
You need to
know that the first 200~300km on a new Brooks is not pleasant, the
leather needs time to "break-in", that is mold to your shape. Afte
rthat however, they just keep getting better and better.

I have had the opposite experience. A brand new Brooks is the most
comfortable saddle I have ever used, but gets worse as it gets softer.
It doesn't take long - after a couple of weeks my sit bones have worn
deep divots into the leather, making the middle of the saddle
uncomfortably high.

This has happened with two B17s. With one I conditioned it with a
small amount of Dubbin. With the other I used a small amount of the
recommended Proofide. Neither saddle ever got wet.

Other people don't seem to have this problem. Perhaps it's just my bony
arse?

I too ride a B17, and have done so for many years and about 5 saddles.
I was persuaded to switch to them by enthusiastic books & magazine
articles. The same enthusiastic authors strongly warned that leather
saddles *had* to be broken in using (so it seemed) special potions,
incantations and witchcraft.

After destroying my first 2 saddles, attempting to soften them up, I
gave up on the special breaking-in and just rode.
Of these:
the 1st one was very uncomfortable, until my bum & it came to an
accommodation, after a few months;
the 2nd one was somewhat uncomfortable for a week or two (it was at the
start of a long bike tour), until a new accommodation was made;
the 3rd one (the current one) was never too uncomfortable.

I've not yet worn out a saddle and do little maintenance.
The tension bolt under the nose is too hard to adjust, so I don't bother.
I ride most working days of the week, so I'm hoping that constant use
and constant sweat are enough to stop the leather drying out too much.
A few cracks are appearing in the leather towards the back, but I'm
keeping an eye on them and doubt that the saddle will fail any time soon.

Cheerio,
K. Moylan

--
K.A. Moylan
Canberra, Australia
Ski Club: http://www.cccsc.asn.au
kamoylan at ozemail dot com dot au

Baka Dasai wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:44:08 +1000, Blue Heeler said (and I quote):
You need to
know that the first 200~300km on a new Brooks is not pleasant, the
leather needs time to "break-in", that is mold to your shape. Afte
rthat however, they just keep getting better and better.

I have had the opposite experience. A brand new Brooks is the most
comfortable saddle I have ever used, but gets worse as it gets softer.
It doesn't take long - after a couple of weeks my sit bones have worn
deep divots into the leather, making the middle of the saddle
uncomfortably high.

This has happened with two B17s. With one I conditioned it with a
small amount of Dubbin. With the other I used a small amount of the
recommended Proofide. Neither saddle ever got wet.

Other people don't seem to have this problem. Perhaps it's just my bony
arse?
--
What was I thinking?


I would say you have not adjusted the tension of the leather as it has
slighhtly stretched.

Once a Brooks saddle has softened it will sag and become uncomfortable.
The middle of the saddle does not become high, but maybe it feels that
way.

It is difficult to adjust the exact tension but after a few tries you'll
find out what feels best.

In my case the adjust bolt broke on 3 saddles, but I am 85Kg, and the
bolt is 0nly 8mm dia, and so i replaced the genuine Brooks adjust bolt
with a 10mm type I made myself.

The Pro saddle I have just got from Brooks has been difficult to break
in so far. But the other new B17 on my second bike is slightly wider and
there is more space and it has broken in much sooner than the narrower
Pro.

Patrick Turner.

"K.A. Moylan" wrote:

In article , Baka Dasai wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:44:08 +1000, Blue Heeler said (and I quote):
You need to
know that the first 200~300km on a new Brooks is not pleasant, the
leather needs time to "break-in", that is mold to your shape. Afte
rthat however, they just keep getting better and better.

I have had the opposite experience. A brand new Brooks is the most
comfortable saddle I have ever used, but gets worse as it gets softer.
It doesn't take long - after a couple of weeks my sit bones have worn
deep divots into the leather, making the middle of the saddle
uncomfortably high.

This has happened with two B17s. With one I conditioned it with a
small amount of Dubbin. With the other I used a small amount of the
recommended Proofide. Neither saddle ever got wet.

Other people don't seem to have this problem. Perhaps it's just my bony
arse?

I too ride a B17, and have done so for many years and about 5 saddles.
I was persuaded to switch to them by enthusiastic books & magazine
articles. The same enthusiastic authors strongly warned that leather
saddles *had* to be broken in using (so it seemed) special potions,
incantations and witchcraft.

After destroying my first 2 saddles, attempting to soften them up, I
gave up on the special breaking-in and just rode.
Of these:
the 1st one was very uncomfortable, until my bum & it came to an
accommodation, after a few months;
the 2nd one was somewhat uncomfortable for a week or two (it was at the
start of a long bike tour), until a new accommodation was made;
the 3rd one (the current one) was never too uncomfortable.

I've not yet worn out a saddle and do little maintenance.
The tension bolt under the nose is too hard to adjust, so I don't bother.
I ride most working days of the week, so I'm hoping that constant use
and constant sweat are enough to stop the leather drying out too much.
A few cracks are appearing in the leather towards the back, but I'm
keeping an eye on them and doubt that the saddle will fail any time soon.

Cheerio,
K. Moylan

I got over 20,000km from each of two saddles over a period of 20 years
in which there was a 13 year lay off when they were stored dry.

They had both broken their bolts and I'd replaced them with bolts I made
myself.

The original bolt is only 8mm dia and tends to bend before it breaks and
this initially bites on the thread of the adjust nut which then becomes
hard to turn.

If you neglect the adjustment of tension your saddle will sag and become
uncomfortable.

Eventually all things on bicycles will break - spokes, wheel rims,
handle bars, frames, seat posts, brakes, cables, gears, deraileurs, etc,
etc. And if you want to tell me that a bike should be made to last
forever, then I'd have to tell you that bicycle longevity drops 10% for
each Kg below 18Kg. The lighter they make them the sooner they'll break,
yet for many the longevity matters not and the bike must be light so
people can ride up hills faster. But even if you had a bike that lasted
only minites and weighed 4Kg, there would be those who'd pass you up
hill on bikes weighing 18Kg.

Anyway, the Brooks saddle MUST be adjusted from time to time after
buying one and the leather tension cannot be ignored. It is a function
of at least average human intelligence that a given cyclist would
carefully examine what he's bought and exactly how it functions and what
its features are and how to use it all properly to get the most of his
purchase.
This has led me to always do all my own maintenance on my 3 bikes
including building wheels, replacing cassttes and chains, replacing
forks, cranksets, adjusting cables, brakes, gears and replacing chain
rings etc, etc, etc.

My 20yr old narrow Brooks Pro was an excellent saddle once I broke it in
and tensioned the leather just right, neither too tight or too loose.
Nevertheless after about 25,000km one rail broke from metal fatigue. The
leather had a few surface craks but remains serviceable. The new
replacement Brooks sent me seems to be slower to break in.
But I'll get there. And I'm 62, and I've been doing 250km a week with
130km rides in the one day sometimes. I know I ain't 40 anymore or 20,
when young men can put up with many things better than I can. But once I
started using Brooks I didn't get saddle sores.

Gradually the leather absorbs moisture from your body through your
knicks and it begins to yield and become pliable like thick leather on
an old pair of heavy boots.

So set the tension loose when its new. And gradually it will break in.

I think the wider B17 is better than the narrow Pro for larger cyclists
like myself.

Setting the slope of the saddle is crucial, along with for and aft
adjustement ans the height adjustment. So take a couple of allen keys
with you on your first rides on a new saddle to adjust it if you slide
forward or tend to slip to the rear with too much crutch pressure.
Do this on your own so you won't hold the bunch up.

Patrick Turner.



--
K.A. Moylan
Canberra, Australia
Ski Club: http://www.cccsc.asn.au
kamoylan at ozemail dot com dot au

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:44:15 GMT, Patrick Turner said (and I quote):
I would say you have not adjusted the tension of the leather as it has
slighhtly stretched.

The tension is not the issue. The problem is the big deep indentations
caused by my sit bones. They formed after about 150km of riding. The
centre of the saddle was still taut, it's just that the saddle was quite
misshapen.
--
What was I thinking?

Baka Dasai wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:44:15 GMT, Patrick Turner said (and I quote):
I would say you have not adjusted the tension of the leather as it has
slighhtly stretched.

The tension is not the issue. The problem is the big deep indentations
caused by my sit bones. They formed after about 150km of riding. The
centre of the saddle was still taut, it's just that the saddle was quite
misshapen.
--
What was I thinking?

I'm not a mind reader.

But while you may think the "centre of the saddle was still taut",
perhaps it wasn't taught enough.

I rode from Canberra to Sydney a few times in my early 40s, 300km each
way, no troubles, on a Brooks saddle.

I think my limit now at 62 is much less, and 150km would give me a sore
arse no matter what saddle I was using.

Patrick Turner.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 08:39:44 GMT, Patrick Turner said (and I quote):
But while you may think the "centre of the saddle was still taut",
perhaps it wasn't taught enough.

The problem is that the centre is high and taut, while the parts under
the sit-bones have sagged right down. If I tightened the saddle it would
make the problem worse, not better.

I rode from Canberra to Sydney a few times in my early 40s, 300km each
way, no troubles, on a Brooks saddle.

I think my limit now at 62 is much less, and 150km would give me a sore
arse no matter what saddle I was using.

The 150km figure I mentioned wasn't in one ride - it was about 2-3 weeks
of everyday riding. It took that long (that little!) for the saddle to
become misshapen - the centre high and taught, and a deep sag under each
sit-bone.
--
What was I thinking?