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torque wrench issues



 
 
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  #121  
Old May 3rd 17, 07:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 250
Default torque wrench issues



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:09:32 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
news
On 5/1/2017 2:49 PM, Ian Field wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote:

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel -
only
know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.

You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.

I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc
plated
that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic
affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic
heavy metals.

Cadmium poisoning is cumulative and has various routes into the body -
its a long slow painful journey to a Darwin award.

For a few years I worked assembling electronic equipment on cadmium
plated chassis - I've seen with my own eyes the extent to which the
plating rubs off on your hands.

But if you're too stupid to take it from someone who's been there -
Darwin awaits you with outstretched arms.

Can you not see your post's internal inconsistency?

You have multiple people who have given citations as well as related
experiences about welding zinc galvanized steel, but you discount them
saying "I have never become aware [of that problem]."


I have done and seen others do; things that they claim are instantly
injurous - at no time have I observed any such effect.

My cites are what I've seen with my own eyes.


But Ian, old chap, when discussing the "ouch-ouch" sickness you state
your reference as "what I read". Now you are claiming "my own eyes" as
a reference. A bit of a disparity there, don't you know.


That's quite possible between two entirely different lines of discussion
don't you know.


Ads
  #122  
Old May 3rd 17, 07:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 250
Default torque wrench issues



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:12:39 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

a great deal deleted


know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.
You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.

I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc
plated
that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic
affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic
heavy metals.


I can only assume that you are not from a country where English is the
common language as the definition of "galvanized" in the U.S. (and
likely in other English speaking countries) is, and I quote, "Covered
with Zinc".


I'm in an English speaking country that's heard of etymology.

You mayb be an etymologist and a Brit, but you have little or no
technical knowlege from what you keep saying.


You kooks are hilarious, but you do get tedious quite quickly.

  #123  
Old May 3rd 17, 07:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 250
Default torque wrench issues



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:12:39 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

a great deal deleted


know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.
You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.

I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc
plated
that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic
affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic
heavy metals.


I can only assume that you are not from a country where English is the
common language as the definition of "galvanized" in the U.S. (and
likely in other English speaking countries) is, and I quote, "Covered
with Zinc".


I'm in an English speaking country that's heard of etymology.


Etymology is it? You mean like "Man, this is soooo cool"?


You should ease back on the mind altering drugs - there's a different kind
that would be much better for you.

  #124  
Old May 3rd 17, 07:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 250
Default torque wrench issues



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:18:17 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:51:52 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:01:20 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
news:lu2agcpi8kuuikoo3m85ustqnrpr3hu5b6@4ax. com...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
news:4eevfc1jbatv5d4g088iqh3n3ls8f4mf35@4a x.com...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
news:schtfc5i6qshna502vhg4pv5f918haa426@ 4ax.com...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
m wrote:


wrote in message
news:vmfqfc17u3012cn5jrkkk4r335ol6r5 ...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
. ..
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow the rules to
the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry threads - any
stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application. Some are
given
as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with oil - some
are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally have never run
across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that torqing
with
"stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the bolt by
twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not been on
bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction equipment
which
may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist the end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the threads out
of
alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down so far that
you
can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the engine case
bolts
with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of stripping the
threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory used to
install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't get them out
without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw before the
Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and the Phipips
style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to breat them
loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver solved that
problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws in a
Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some Japanese
standard
that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the U.S. Which
probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off the point of
the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it) bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated bolts
either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement news
account.
So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is cumulative in
the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up fracturing
ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable about the
80s.
They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in electronic equipment
until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but they've more or
less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling anything
plated
with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious to health
on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle cadmium
plated
parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component leads to
prevent
oxidation - they used more aggressive fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous - the cadmium
is
vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling the
sufferer -
but
I've heard of a repair technician dropping dead after a couple of
years
from
fumes using low melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode
of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial effluent
containing cadmium into heavily fished costal waters. They even have a
name
for the disease - itai itai byo. apparently its the noise sufferers
make
in
their death throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so weak
and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.

I hate to disillusion you but the Japanese word "itai" can be
translated into English as "ouch" and is commonly used in everyday
conversation.

Secondly, the cadmium poisoning you are referring to was specific to
mining in Toyama Prefecture. Not to industry per si.

Sophistry doesn't magically make you right.

You mean that part about "apparently its the noise sufferers make in
their death throes"?

As I explained the Japanese word "itai" is commonly used as English
speakers might use "ouch". Do you think those poor Japanese dying in
agony are saying "ouch - ouch".



Saying I said what I said is a very weird way to try to contradict me.

I simply quoted what I'd read because I know how easy it is to confuse
you.


Exactly. You read something and immediately this becomes the truth!
The whole truth! And nothing but the truth!


So why did you translate it to English and repeat it back to me?

You said the same thing I did - but when I say it; I'm wrong.

You need meds!

  #125  
Old May 3rd 17, 07:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default torque wrench issues

On 5/3/2017 1:13 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 02 May 2017 16:49:29 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:58:47 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 22:12:57 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 5/1/2017 2:35 PM,
wrote:
"Ian Field" wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote
wrote:
"Ian Field"
wrote:
"AMuzi" wrote
On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:
"AMuzi" wrote
On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:
wrote
"Ian Field"
wrote:
wrote
"Benderthe.evilrobot"

wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote
wrote:
John B Slocomb
wrote:
"Benderthe.evilrobot"

wrote:
wrote
"Benderthe.evilrobot"

wrote:
"Emanuel Berg"
wrote

-snip much speculation about organic chemistry-


Metallic zinc is not anywhere near as dangerous as
the zinc oxide
fumes from over-heated zinc - justlike contact with
cadmium metal
itself is "relatively" benign - and touching chrome
plated metal is
not dangerous, yet co-valent Chromium is highly toxic.
Same with mercury - although mercury vapour
definitely is not GOOD for
you, it is the "organic compounds" of mercury that
are particularly
dangerous and insidious.


+1

Which is saying
something...........................AFAIK: zinc oxide
isn't
particularly dangerous either.

Some sellers of CPU heat transfer paste pass off zinc
oxide as high tech
ceramic filler and charge a lot more money. Its a bit
of a grey area - but
I
think it more or less is a form of ceramic.

The *REALLY* toxic oxide is beryllium. That also is
used for thermal
transfer - RoHS exempted some toxic materials because
the impact on
industry
would be too severe, beryllium was one of them.
Give it up Ian - you are out of your depth.

In the mire created by Americans totally ignoring
etymology.
Give us ONE recognized source that supports your
definition of
GALVINIZED. Just ONE.



Actually, like so much else of their culture, they have
pirated the
term from the French.

"Galvanic - From French galvanique, after Italian
physiologist Luigi
Aloisio Galvani"


And what did he invent/discover?



Oh fer chrissake drop it already.

Luigi Galvani is best known for twitching dead frogs' leg
muscles with a copper-zinc battery apparatus. The transfer
of his name to the (original) zinc electroplate process and
then to zinc hot dip (cheaper) are honorific for his
contributions to electricity generally , not a brand or
tradename extension like Ford or Edison.

How you conflated fuming zing poisoning with etymology
escapes me.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #126  
Old May 3rd 17, 08:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default torque wrench issues

On 5/3/2017 2:18 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:12:39 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

a great deal deleted


know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.
You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.

I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc
plated
that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic
affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other
toxic
heavy metals.


I can only assume that you are not from a country where English is the
common language as the definition of "galvanized" in the U.S. (and
likely in other English speaking countries) is, and I quote, "Covered
with Zinc".

I'm in an English speaking country that's heard of etymology.

You mayb be an etymologist and a Brit, but you have little or no
technical knowlege from what you keep saying.


You kooks are hilarious, but you do get tedious quite quickly.


Feel free to go away.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #127  
Old May 3rd 17, 09:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 250
Default torque wrench issues



"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
news
On 5/3/2017 2:18 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:12:39 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

a great deal deleted


know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.
You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.

I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc
plated
that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher
galvanic
affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other
toxic
heavy metals.


I can only assume that you are not from a country where English is the
common language as the definition of "galvanized" in the U.S. (and
likely in other English speaking countries) is, and I quote, "Covered
with Zinc".

I'm in an English speaking country that's heard of etymology.
You mayb be an etymologist and a Brit, but you have little or no
technical knowlege from what you keep saying.


You kooks are hilarious, but you do get tedious quite quickly.


Feel free to go away.


And miss the entertainment..........................

  #128  
Old May 3rd 17, 11:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default torque wrench issues

On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 8:54:59 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/3/2017 2:18 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:12:39 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

a great deal deleted


know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.
You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.

I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc
plated
that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic
affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other
toxic
heavy metals.


I can only assume that you are not from a country where English is the
common language as the definition of "galvanized" in the U.S. (and
likely in other English speaking countries) is, and I quote, "Covered
with Zinc".

I'm in an English speaking country that's heard of etymology.
You mayb be an etymologist and a Brit, but you have little or no
technical knowlege from what you keep saying.


You kooks are hilarious, but you do get tedious quite quickly.


Feel free to go away.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Yo, Franki-boy, feel free not to read any posts whose senders make you uncomfortable by not agreeing that you know everything. However, don't feel free to decide who can come to RBT. You've already been burned once for that crime (what happened to your dream of being "a spokesman for bicycles"?), and I'll burn you for it again any time I see you attack anybody's freedom of speech. We have enough scum in erstwhile good universities trying to shut up and exclude people for whom they don't have answers, so we don't need tenth-rate superannuated ******s like you attempting the same slimy suppression of free speech on RBT.

Andre Jute
I may not agree with Ian Field, but I'll stomp you for denying his right to be wrong as persistently as he cares to be.
  #129  
Old May 3rd 17, 11:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default torque wrench issues

On 5/3/2017 6:37 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 8:54:59 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/3/2017 2:18 PM, Ian Field wrote:


You kooks are hilarious, but you do get tedious quite quickly.


Feel free to go away.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Yo, Franki-boy, feel free not to read any posts whose senders make you uncomfortable by not agreeing that you know everything. However, don't feel free to decide who can come to RBT. You've already been burned once for that crime (what happened to your dream of being "a spokesman for bicycles"?), and I'll burn you for it again any time I see you attack anybody's freedom of speech. We have enough scum in erstwhile good universities trying to shut up and exclude people for whom they don't have answers, so we don't need tenth-rate superannuated ******s like you attempting the same slimy suppression of free speech on RBT.

Andre Jute
I may not agree with Ian Field, but I'll stomp you for denying his right to be wrong as persistently as he cares to be.


Only Jute could mistake a simple reassurance ("feel free to go away")
for a statement about who can or cannot post on RBT.

And it's time for Jute to drop the "spokesman for bicycles" allusion
unless he can come up with a citation proving I claimed such a thing.

But I suppose a fat, feeble, medication-addled pilot of an electric bike
needs straw men to build his illusion of manliness.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #130  
Old May 4th 17, 01:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default torque wrench issues

On Wed, 3 May 2017 19:16:59 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:09:32 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
news On 5/1/2017 2:49 PM, Ian Field wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote:

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel -
only
know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.

You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.

I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc
plated
that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic
affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic
heavy metals.

Cadmium poisoning is cumulative and has various routes into the body -
its a long slow painful journey to a Darwin award.

For a few years I worked assembling electronic equipment on cadmium
plated chassis - I've seen with my own eyes the extent to which the
plating rubs off on your hands.

But if you're too stupid to take it from someone who's been there -
Darwin awaits you with outstretched arms.

Can you not see your post's internal inconsistency?

You have multiple people who have given citations as well as related
experiences about welding zinc galvanized steel, but you discount them
saying "I have never become aware [of that problem]."

I have done and seen others do; things that they claim are instantly
injurous - at no time have I observed any such effect.

My cites are what I've seen with my own eyes.


But Ian, old chap, when discussing the "ouch-ouch" sickness you state
your reference as "what I read". Now you are claiming "my own eyes" as
a reference. A bit of a disparity there, don't you know.


That's quite possible between two entirely different lines of discussion
don't you know.


Well, what is one to think.

After all you disparage my knowledge of the Japanese language although
I spent nearly 10 years in the country and, as I said, my wife was a
native Japanese speaker.

And you disparage Frank's Professional Engineer qualifications and his
(probably) 20 or more years as a lecturer in a university.

And, of course, while I cite my experiences or Frank posts his
frequent references to his university lecturing or cites his P.E.
qualifications you respond never mentioning your own qualifications
for being a pundit, but merely reply with insulting language.

In short, you appear to be the usual ignoramus who when challenged
over some of the stupidity he/she exhibits simply falls back on
insults, the last refuge of the ignorant and uninformed. in rebuttal.

One might, if one wishes to lower one's self to your level, simply
label you as "a stupid little **** who talks about things he/she knows
nothing about".
 




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