How hard is it to install a cartridge BB?

I have an 1990-ish Specialized road bike with a loose-bearing BB and a
Sakae triple crank. The BB seems to be worn out -- I get excessive
play which doesn't completely go away even when I tighten the
adjustable cup to the point of binding. Then, after a few miles of
riding it loosens up again.

I could just replace the spindle and repack, but I'm thinking a modern
cartridge bearing might be an improvement

1. Might it indeed by an improvement?
2. Frame is a Specialized Sirrus road bike (this one is a traditional,
lugged steel road frame, not like the current production model of the
same name).
3. The crank is original to the bike -- a 1990-ish square tapered Sakae
triple (52-40-30). Is there a current production BB that will fit?
4. If not, I'm willing to replace the crankset. Moderately priced
suggestions welcome.

5. DIY or go to the shop?
a)I have a pair of old style loose bearing BB wrenches, and I have
re-packed loose bearing BB's many times, but I've never tried removing
a fixed cup. Am I correct in assuming that I have to do this in order
to install a cartridge BB?
b) If yes, how difficult is this? (I regard, say, front hub re-packing
as pretty easy, wheel truing as tricky, and wheel building as beyond
me, to give you a sense of my wrenching skills)
c)I've looked at the Park Tool page on cartridge BB installation, and
it looks pretty tricky. Opinions? It also appears to require special
tools. Correct?
d) A LBS says they can sell me a BB and install it for me for $60
total. I'm leaning toward this, but if enough of you tell me "nah,
piece of cake" I might take it on myself. Any thoughts?

TIA,
John

JBAFromNY wrote:

I have an 1990-ish Specialized road bike with a loose-bearing BB and a
Sakae triple crank. The BB seems to be worn out -- I get excessive
play which doesn't completely go away even when I tighten the
adjustable cup to the point of binding. Then, after a few miles of
riding it loosens up again.

I could just replace the spindle and repack, but I'm thinking a modern
cartridge bearing might be an improvement

1. Might it indeed by an improvement?

Yes. They normally hold up well (I still wreck them in 2,000 miles, but
that's just me).

2. Frame is a Specialized Sirrus road bike (this one is a traditional,
lugged steel road frame, not like the current production model of the
same name).

Not a problem, it will have a normal English-threaded shell as invented
(I think) by BSA about 100 years ago.

3. The crank is original to the bike -- a 1990-ish square tapered Sakae
triple (52-40-30). Is there a current production BB that will fit?

Any square taper Shimano BB (I'd recommend UN-73). Do get the same
length as the existing spindle - take it to the shop if in doubt.

4. If not, I'm willing to replace the crankset. Moderately priced
suggestions welcome.

Not necessary.

5. DIY or go to the shop?

DIY easily. You'll need a big spanner (wrench) and a Shimano BB tool
(cheap). Best to hold the tool in place with a crankbolt and some
washers so it can't slip. Your biggest problem may be removing the old
fixed cup - see www.sheldonbrown.com for how to do it with a nut and
bolt if you don't have a fixed cup spanner.

a)I have a pair of old style loose bearing BB wrenches, and I have
re-packed loose bearing BB's many times, but I've never tried removing
a fixed cup. Am I correct in assuming that I have to do this in order
to install a cartridge BB?

Yes, you have to start with an empty shell.

b) If yes, how difficult is this? (I regard, say, front hub re-packing
as pretty easy, wheel truing as tricky, and wheel building as beyond
me, to give you a sense of my wrenching skills)

See above.

c)I've looked at the Park Tool page on cartridge BB installation, and
it looks pretty tricky. Opinions? It also appears to require special
tools. Correct?

One special tool and it's easy.

d) A LBS says they can sell me a BB and install it for me for $60
total. I'm leaning toward this, but if enough of you tell me "nah,
piece of cake" I might take it on myself. Any thoughts?

Waste of money. The square taper Shimano ones aren't fussy about frame
preparation and ar easy to fit.

I agree with all of this.

The LBS quote gives a good fall-back position if you can't shift the
fixed cup. Otherwise I would go down the DIY route.

Sheldon Brown has a useful table of bottom bracket sizes (see
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html) as cup and cone axles may not
be symmetrical). This page shows the best equivalent.

Andrew Webster

In article .com,
says...
I have an 1990-ish Specialized road bike with a loose-bearing BB and a
Sakae triple crank. The BB seems to be worn out -- I get excessive
play which doesn't completely go away even when I tighten the
adjustable cup to the point of binding. Then, after a few miles of
riding it loosens up again.
I could just replace the spindle and repack, but I'm thinking a modern
cartridge bearing might be an improvement
1. Might it indeed by an improvement?

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the old and the new BB.


2. Frame is a Specialized Sirrus road bike (this one is a traditional,
lugged steel road frame, not like the current production model of the
same name).
3. The crank is original to the bike -- a 1990-ish square tapered Sakae
triple (52-40-30). Is there a current production BB that will fit?

Yes. Just measure your old BB to get the right size.

5. DIY or go to the shop?
a)I have a pair of old style loose bearing BB wrenches, and I have
re-packed loose bearing BB's many times, but I've never tried removing
a fixed cup. Am I correct in assuming that I have to do this in order
to install a cartridge BB?

Yes, you have to remove the old fixed cup.

b) If yes, how difficult is this? (I regard, say, front hub re-packing
as pretty easy, wheel truing as tricky, and wheel building as beyond
me, to give you a sense of my wrenching skills)

Depends on how tight the fixed cup is. It not too tight, it is a very easy.

c)I've looked at the Park Tool page on cartridge BB installation, and
it looks pretty tricky. Opinions? It also appears to require special
tools. Correct?

Yes, you need the special too for the BB you get. Beyond that, it is very
straight forward.

d) A LBS says they can sell me a BB and install it for me for $60
total. I'm leaning toward this, but if enough of you tell me "nah,
piece of cake" I might take it on myself. Any thoughts?

It should be a really nice BB at that price.
------------
Alex

I just replaced my cartridge bottom bracket. I let the shop order the
cartridge, and the total cost was $34 with tax. They gave me ideas on how to
do it, such as keep the tapered spindle and its insertion points grease-free
and to use anti-seize material on the threads of the bottom bracket itself.

It was easy to do. You just need to get the proper tools for pulling the
crank off and for unthreading/tightening the cartridge itself. Those tools
are bicycle-specific and are not very expensive.

Pat in TX

Pat wrote:

I just replaced my cartridge bottom bracket. I let the shop order the
cartridge, and the total cost was $34 with tax. They gave me ideas on how to
do it, such as keep the tapered spindle and its insertion points grease-free

:-)

JBAFromNY wrote:

5. DIY or go to the shop?
a)I have a pair of old style loose bearing BB wrenches, and I have
re-packed loose bearing BB's many times, but I've never tried removing
a fixed cup. Am I correct in assuming that I have to do this in order
to install a cartridge BB?
b) If yes, how difficult is this? (I regard, say, front hub re-packing
as pretty easy, wheel truing as tricky, and wheel building as beyond
me, to give you a sense of my wrenching skills)
c)I've looked at the Park Tool page on cartridge BB installation, and
it looks pretty tricky. Opinions? It also appears to require special
tools. Correct?
d) A LBS says they can sell me a BB and install it for me for $60
total. I'm leaning toward this, but if enough of you tell me "nah,
piece of cake" I might take it on myself. Any thoughts?

You do need specific tools to remove the old fixed cup and install the
new cartridge unit. Your BB tool set should include a fixed cup wrench,
but a Shimano cartridge BB tool (which you might well never use again)
sells for about $15. Balance this against the cost of the shop doing
the work.
Most of us that wrench our own bikes do it for fun and satisfaction, or
because we don't trust the monkeys at the LBS to do a good job. We
don't buy all the necessary tools and do it ourselves to save money ;)

1. I would remove the adjustable cup and clean the threads carefully
with a sharp object to make sure that the adjustable cup is
threading all the way on. While the cup is off check to see if it
you can feel a deep grove in the races - if there is no deep
groove in either race, then it's your adjustment that is the
problem - not a worn out cup.

2. It's rather easy to remove a fixed cup if you have a large enough
crescent wrench (the $15 variety). I always lay the bike flat,
crank side up, clean the wrench flats of dirt and grime (so that
the crescent can get all the way down onto the flats), mount the
wrench and tigthen it well (but don't overtighten because it tends
to make the wrench jump off the flats), then I use 2 fingers to
hold both sides of the wrench down on the cup as hard as I can,
while I slowly loosen the cup. Cups (like pedals) are threaded to
get tighter as the crank turns, so I think you need to go counter
clockwise to loosen it.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

On 18 Jul 2005 10:10:44 -0700, "JBAFromNY" wrote:

I get excessive
play which doesn't completely go away even when I tighten the
adjustable cup to the point of binding. Then, after a few miles of
riding it loosens up again.

I could just replace the spindle and repack,

Probably won't help; it's usually the cups that crater on those in my
experience.

but I'm thinking a modern
cartridge bearing might be an improvement

Certainly a fix; "improvement" is a slippery term.

1. Might it indeed by an improvement?

By comparison to a clapped-out BB? You bet. By comparison to a new
BB of the same type? Maybe. Both do the same job. Both have
advantages and disadvantages. Whether a sealed cart BB is better will
depend in part on which sealed BB you get. I've had a couple that
were nothing to be proud of.

2. Frame is a Specialized Sirrus road bike (this one is a traditional,
lugged steel road frame, not like the current production model of the
same name).
3. The crank is original to the bike -- a 1990-ish square tapered Sakae
triple (52-40-30). Is there a current production BB that will fit?

Several. Measure your shell width and spindle length; those are the
two critical dimensions.

4. If not, I'm willing to replace the crankset. Moderately priced
suggestions welcome.

No need, in my opinion.

5. DIY or go to the shop?

If it was me, I'd buy the tool neede for the cart BB that I was
installing (and the bolt to hold the tool onto the BB is appropriate),
and make it DIY. Your priorities may be different.

a)I have a pair of old style loose bearing BB wrenches, and I have
re-packed loose bearing BB's many times, but I've never tried removing
a fixed cup. Am I correct in assuming that I have to do this in order
to install a cartridge BB?

Yup.

b) If yes, how difficult is this? (I regard, say, front hub re-packing
as pretty easy, wheel truing as tricky, and wheel building as beyond
me, to give you a sense of my wrenching skills)

Not rocket science; not even *plumbing" science, in my opinion. You
may need a tool that you don't have yet, depending on the BB design.

c)I've looked at the Park Tool page on cartridge BB installation, and
it looks pretty tricky. Opinions? It also appears to require special
tools. Correct?

Easy, and yes, in that order; the former answer is an opinion, of
course.

d) A LBS says they can sell me a BB and install it for me for $60
total. I'm leaning toward this, but if enough of you tell me "nah,
piece of cake" I might take it on myself. Any thoughts?

You may spend as much on the tools as they will charge for the labor,
but probably you won't. Thus, as a successfull DIY task, it's likely
that you would not only end up saving money a little money, but have
the tools to do it again later should the need arise. Or you can pay
them and not have to keep track of that additional small fiddly bit
for several years until the next time it *might* be needed. If you
change cities often, and like to pack light, let the lbs do the job.
If you're firmly rooted and creating yourself a proper collection of
Junque with which to populate your Garage when it is finally acquired,
then by all means buy the tools.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article .com,
wrote:
JBAFromNY wrote:

5. DIY or go to the shop?
a)I have a pair of old style loose bearing BB wrenches, and I have
re-packed loose bearing BB's many times, but I've never tried removing
a fixed cup. Am I correct in assuming that I have to do this in order
to install a cartridge BB?
b) If yes, how difficult is this? (I regard, say, front hub re-packing
as pretty easy, wheel truing as tricky, and wheel building as beyond
me, to give you a sense of my wrenching skills)
c)I've looked at the Park Tool page on cartridge BB installation, and
it looks pretty tricky. Opinions? It also appears to require special
tools. Correct?
d) A LBS says they can sell me a BB and install it for me for $60
total. I'm leaning toward this, but if enough of you tell me "nah,
piece of cake" I might take it on myself. Any thoughts?

You do need specific tools to remove the old fixed cup and install the
new cartridge unit. Your BB tool set should include a fixed cup wrench,
but a Shimano cartridge BB tool (which you might well never use again)
sells for about $15. Balance this against the cost of the shop doing
the work.

_ A bench vise makes a really good fixed cup wrench. The ones in
BB tools sets are really handy for smashing your knuckles...

_ Booker C. Bense



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