Cycle Speed Limits on a normal Cycle Path?

Paul Boyd wrote:
So using a very obvious analogy, are you then suggesting that without a
speedometer people can't tell that 10mph is under a 30mph speed limit and
50mph is over? If not, what is the difference?

How on earth is that an analogy?

Errmmmm... Unless I've misunderstood, you said:

Some people seem to have
difficulty in understanding the fact that a human does not have built-in
speed measurement devices so we need speedos, but we do have built-in
alcohol measuring devices, so we don't need breathalysers.

You then suggested that the 'built-in alcohol measuring device' was accurate
enough to distinguish 1 pint as being below the limit and 5 being over:

If you've drunk one pint you can legally
drive, if you've drunk five pints you can't.

So I pointed out that, similarly, our 'built in speed measurement device'
is, in fact, accurate enough to tell that 10mph is below a 30mph limit and
50mph is over. And hence perhaps speed and blood alcohol are not as
different as you appeared to be suggesting.


Which is precisely why the limit should be zero - there can be no doubt
then.

I completely agree.

I would have assumed that a small woman would know that she's a
small woman rather than a big rugby player and adjusted accordingly, as
suggested by the guidelines I saw last night on t'web.

Those are still very rough guidelines, and ignore a wide variety of other
factors. Your 'built in alcohol measuring device' is still probably less
accurate than the typical person's estimate of speed.

Anthony

Thanks for that.
Fascinating! that french bike seems to follow the Citroen design
philosophy of clever-but-complicated weirdness.
Interesting to read the story about the frame identity issue, I've heard
the popular theory so many times, even from people who "were there"
that I didn't even question it.

Roger

--
Roger Thorpe

My email address is spamtrapped. You can work it out!

In ,
James Thomson tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

A long, long time ago, I used to subscribe to the Classic Rendezvous
mailing list, where debates about minute differences in the body
castings of 1970 and 1971 Campagnolo Record front derailleurs can
rage for month upon month.
I didn't stay long, but I saved a few of the more interesting
contributions including this one from Hilarity Stone, he of the "very
reasonable" eBay reserve prices, one-time head honcho of Cycling
Plus, and currrent editor of the Veteran Cycle Club rag:


I don't really know how many times it has to be said that Britain's
RTTC ban in 1938 (which lasted effectively just two years) on
maker's names being clearly shown in photographs had no effect on
frame design in the UK. Most of the funnies (Hetchins, Bates,
Baines, Sun Manx, Saxon SWB, Moorson etc etc) had already been
designed and built prior to this and the ones that came after were
not aimed at time triallists (Paris Galibier, Sun Manxman TT* road
racers, Thanet Silverlight * tourists). It is a myth that
needs to be killed once and for all.

[snip]

Appypollyloggies - ISTR reading it in "Bicycle" circa 1983. As to Hilarity
Stone, I sold my Citroen CX to him in 1998. I like to think I got the
better of the deal :-)

--
Dave Larrington
http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk
Me, I wanna be an anglepoise lamp, yeah!

On 2007-02-08 10:45:50 +0000, Helen Deborah Vecht
said:

Tony Raven typed


Anthony Jones wrote on 08/02/2007 09:23 +0100:
Simon Brooke wrote:
If you've drunk no alcohol at all in the past 24 hours you're legal.
Otherwise, you're winging it.

Unfortunately this isn't the attitude of many motorists I've met,
and in the
eyes of the law, they're *not* winging it, because the legal blood alcohol
limit is scarily high.


You would have had to drink quite a lot to be over the limit after
24hrs. The average half life of alcohol in the blood is 6hrs which
means that after 24hrs it is down to one sixteenth of its initial
value. Five times over the limit is fatal to most people IIRC

Alcohol metabolism does not have a half life (first order
phamacokinetics, if I remember my ancient student teaching) but a fixed
rate of elimination (zero order kinetics). The body can clear
approximately one unit (9g) of alcohol per hour. Nothing can speed this
up usefully.

Except for Iron Bru and a greasy breakfast.
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok

www.catrike.co.uk

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:33:57 +0000,
Paul Boyd usenet.dont.work@plusnet wrote:
Anthony Jones said the following on 08/02/2007 13:28:

I think you underestimate the variability with respect to blood alcohol
levels. Under some circumstances one pint could put someone over the limit
(small woman drinking strong beer on an empty stomach), and under others
five pints could leave someone under the limit (stereotypical rugby player
drinking weak beer on a full stomach). It's not a simple as 'counting
units' at all.

Which is precisely why the limit should be zero - there can be no doubt
then.

Yep all those people who have recently used an alcohol based mouthwash,
those who have eaten a bit of sherry trifle, and those who experience
endogenous fermentation would fail a breath test.

As driving whilst tired can be as dangerous as driving under the
influence (driving after 18 hours with no sleep is equivalent to
50mg/100ml blood according to some studies) are you as tolerant on
that? How tired is too tired?

I doubt a limit of 0 would be very enforceable and certainly wouldn't
have the support of the public. A reduction to 50mg/100ml which is the
usual limit for western Europe would have the broad support of the
public I feel (although not everyone).

--
Andy Leighton =
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

In article , Paul Boyd wrote:
Alan Braggins said the following on 08/02/2007 12:14:

What rubbish. We have a rough sense of how much our ability has been
impaired by alcohol

No we don't, which is why people under-estimate how drunk they are.

What part of "rough" and "a sense which can itself be impaired by alcohol"
didn't you understand?


What we do have is the ability to count, so 1 pint is OK, but 5 pints
isn't.

That's hardly "built-in alcohol measuring devices", is it?

In article , Phil Cook wrote:
Alan Braggins wrote:
In article , Tom Crispin wrote:

My comments had nothing (probably) to do with me not getting the job.
The clincher was my answer to the question, "If we offered you this
job, would you accept it?" Which begged the follow up question, "Why
the f*&$ did you bother applying in the first place?"

So (taking the '"beg the question" doesn't mean that/yes it does now language
changes over time' argument as read), why _did_ you bother applying in the
first place?

Well I can think of job interviews where I have decided "I don't want
to work with these people" so Tom may have wanted the job before he
knew what king of people the head and govenors were.

"It wasn't clear what the job and/or pay being offered was until the
interview" is another possibility (I've been there). But I'm still
curious to know Tom's answer.

Andy Leighton said the following on 08/02/2007 14:49:

I doubt a limit of 0 would be very enforceable and certainly wouldn't
have the support of the public.

Tell you what, how about finding out how they enforce it in Estonia,
Lithuania, Malta, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary, or certain
states in the USA where under-21s have a zero limit?

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

On 7 Feb, 17:24, David Hansen wrote:
On 7 Feb 2007 08:17:15 -0800 someone who may be
wrote this:-

Are there any speed-limits for a standard cycle?

Not on public roads, where speed limits only apply to motor
vehicles.

Really?

"Where a traffic sign ... has been lawfully placed on or near a road,
a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the
indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence."
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988...n_2.htm#mdiv36

Is a bicycle not a vehicle?

bobrayner wrote on 08/02/2007 15:40 +0100:
On 7 Feb, 17:24, David Hansen wrote:
On 7 Feb 2007 08:17:15 -0800 someone who may be
wrote this:-

Are there any speed-limits for a standard cycle?
Not on public roads, where speed limits only apply to motor
vehicles.

Really?

"Where a traffic sign ... has been lawfully placed on or near a road,
a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the
indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence."
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988...n_2.htm#mdiv36

Is a bicycle not a vehicle?


But what is the "30" sign indicating? If you read the legislation it is
to inform the drivers of motor vehicles that there is a 30mph speed
limit for motor vehicles on that road. Ditto for other speed limit
signs. So unless your bicycle is a motor vehicle there is no indication
for you to comply with. Simple really.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy