New track bike chain line advice

"Nemo doctus unquam (multa autem de hoc genere scripta sunt)
mutationem consili inconstantiam dixit esse." - Cicero

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:01:11 +0100, Zog The Undeniable
wrote:

John Dacey wrote:

There have been two TA cranks bearing the name "Alize Piste". If you
have the later of the two (show in the picture at
http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/tcr-ta3.JPG), the manufacturer
recommends a bottom bracket with a symmetrical 103 mm spindle with ISO
tapers.

Didn't TA change to the Shimano (JIS) taper recently?

Not to my knowledge. TA did change their cups from their annoyingly
proprietary four-pin adjustable cup and three-notch lockring
configuration to a design that allows installation with the Shimano
splined bottom bracket cup tool (TL-UN74S and its various knockoffs).
Perhaps that's the Shimano connection about which you've heard.


-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
http://www.businesscycles.com
Since 1983
Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
-------------------------------

John Dacey wrote in message . ..
"Nemo doctus unquam (multa autem de hoc genere scripta sunt)
mutationem consili inconstantiam dixit esse." - Cicero

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:01:11 +0100, Zog The Undeniable
wrote:

John Dacey wrote:

There have been two TA cranks bearing the name "Alize Piste". If you
have the later of the two (show in the picture at
http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/tcr-ta3.JPG), the manufacturer
recommends a bottom bracket with a symmetrical 103 mm spindle with ISO
tapers.

Didn't TA change to the Shimano (JIS) taper recently?

Not to my knowledge. TA did change their cups from their annoyingly
proprietary four-pin adjustable cup and three-notch lockring
configuration to a design that allows installation with the Shimano
splined bottom bracket cup tool (TL-UN74S and its various knockoffs).
Perhaps that's the Shimano connection about which you've heard.


-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
http://www.businesscycles.com
Since 1983
Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
-------------------------------

Are you saying that the "shoulders" on the outside are not necessary
for strength and it's OK to use bolts only? I have a feeling that the
makers of my bike used the wrong b/b - "Shimano XT", and compensated
by fitting the ring the "wrong" way to allow them to set the chain
line to the usual 42mm, thank you all for your helpful comments, and
John, would you have any fitting instructions on the TA Alize c/set to
confirm my concerns about the "bolts only" method is OK (on a fixed
gear bike). Thanks, Robert.

John Dacey wrote in message . ..
"Nemo doctus unquam (multa autem de hoc genere scripta sunt)
mutationem consili inconstantiam dixit esse." - Cicero

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:01:11 +0100, Zog The Undeniable
wrote:

John Dacey wrote:

There have been two TA cranks bearing the name "Alize Piste". If you
have the later of the two (show in the picture at
http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/tcr-ta3.JPG), the manufacturer
recommends a bottom bracket with a symmetrical 103 mm spindle with ISO
tapers.

Didn't TA change to the Shimano (JIS) taper recently?

Not to my knowledge. TA did change their cups from their annoyingly
proprietary four-pin adjustable cup and three-notch lockring
configuration to a design that allows installation with the Shimano
splined bottom bracket cup tool (TL-UN74S and its various knockoffs).
Perhaps that's the Shimano connection about which you've heard.


-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
http://www.businesscycles.com
Since 1983
Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
-------------------------------

Are you saying that the "shoulders" on the outside are not necessary
for strength and it's OK to use bolts only? I have a feeling that the
makers of my bike used the wrong b/b - "Shimano XT", and compensated
by fitting the ring the "wrong" way to allow them to set the chain
line to the usual 42mm, thank you all for your helpful comments, and
John, would you have any fitting instructions on the TA Alize c/set to
confirm my concerns about the "bolts only" method is OK (on a fixed
gear bike). Thanks, Robert.

On 31 Aug 2004 00:30:52 -0700, (Robert) wrote:

John Dacey wrote in message news:
Didn't TA change to the Shimano (JIS) taper recently?

Not to my knowledge. TA did change their cups from their annoyingly
proprietary four-pin adjustable cup and three-notch lockring
configuration to a design that allows installation with the Shimano
splined bottom bracket cup tool (TL-UN74S and its various knockoffs).
Perhaps that's the Shimano connection about which you've heard.


Are you saying that the "shoulders" on the outside are not necessary
for strength and it's OK to use bolts only?

It wasn't me that previously commented about this, but for what it's
worth, I also think that a chainring can usually be adequately
supported just by a good set of chainring bolts.

I have a feeling that the
makers of my bike used the wrong b/b - "Shimano XT", and compensated
by fitting the ring the "wrong" way to allow them to set the chain
line to the usual 42mm,

That's the way it appears--the various departures from "by the book"
assembly has given a summed error of zero.

thank you all for your helpful comments, and
John, would you have any fitting instructions on the TA Alize c/set to
confirm my concerns about the "bolts only" method is OK (on a fixed
gear bike). Thanks, Robert.

I think you'll find the literature to be silent on this issue, but you
may want to see the spec sheet for yourself:

http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/alizepiste.jpg

-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Our catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996.
http://www.businesscycles.com

On 31 Aug 2004 00:30:52 -0700, (Robert) wrote:

John Dacey wrote in message news:
Didn't TA change to the Shimano (JIS) taper recently?

Not to my knowledge. TA did change their cups from their annoyingly
proprietary four-pin adjustable cup and three-notch lockring
configuration to a design that allows installation with the Shimano
splined bottom bracket cup tool (TL-UN74S and its various knockoffs).
Perhaps that's the Shimano connection about which you've heard.


Are you saying that the "shoulders" on the outside are not necessary
for strength and it's OK to use bolts only?

It wasn't me that previously commented about this, but for what it's
worth, I also think that a chainring can usually be adequately
supported just by a good set of chainring bolts.

I have a feeling that the
makers of my bike used the wrong b/b - "Shimano XT", and compensated
by fitting the ring the "wrong" way to allow them to set the chain
line to the usual 42mm,

That's the way it appears--the various departures from "by the book"
assembly has given a summed error of zero.

thank you all for your helpful comments, and
John, would you have any fitting instructions on the TA Alize c/set to
confirm my concerns about the "bolts only" method is OK (on a fixed
gear bike). Thanks, Robert.

I think you'll find the literature to be silent on this issue, but you
may want to see the spec sheet for yourself:

http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/alizepiste.jpg

-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Our catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996.
http://www.businesscycles.com

Robert wrote:

Are you saying that the "shoulders" on the outside are not necessary
for strength and it's OK to use bolts only?

Yes.

Sheldon "Terse" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Dennis: "Listen, strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords, |
| is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power |
| derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical |
| aquatic ceremony" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up!" |
| |
|Dennis: "I mean you can't expect to wield supreme executive power |
| just because some watery tart threw a sword at you" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up!" |
|Dennis: "I mean if I went around saying I was an emperor, just because |
| some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up! Will you Shut Up!" |
|Dennis: Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the syststem. COME |
| SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM. HELP! HELP! I'M BEING |
| REPRESSED" |
|King Arthur: "Bloody Peasant!" |
|Dennis: "Oh what a give away. What a give away huh? Did you see that? |
| You saw 'im repressin' me didn't you ? That's what I'm on about!" |
--Monty Python & the Holy Grail |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Robert wrote:

Are you saying that the "shoulders" on the outside are not necessary
for strength and it's OK to use bolts only?

Yes.

Sheldon "Terse" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Dennis: "Listen, strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords, |
| is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power |
| derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical |
| aquatic ceremony" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up!" |
| |
|Dennis: "I mean you can't expect to wield supreme executive power |
| just because some watery tart threw a sword at you" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up!" |
|Dennis: "I mean if I went around saying I was an emperor, just because |
| some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up! Will you Shut Up!" |
|Dennis: Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the syststem. COME |
| SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM. HELP! HELP! I'M BEING |
| REPRESSED" |
|King Arthur: "Bloody Peasant!" |
|Dennis: "Oh what a give away. What a give away huh? Did you see that? |
| You saw 'im repressin' me didn't you ? That's what I'm on about!" |
--Monty Python & the Holy Grail |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:39:44 -0400, Sheldon Brown
wrote:

[snip merely bicycling-related matter]

Sheldon "Terse" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Dennis: "Listen, strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords, |
| is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power |
| derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical |
| aquatic ceremony" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up!" |
| |
|Dennis: "I mean you can't expect to wield supreme executive power |
| just because some watery tart threw a sword at you" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up!" |
|Dennis: "I mean if I went around saying I was an emperor, just because |
| some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up! Will you Shut Up!" |
|Dennis: Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the syststem. COME |
| SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM. HELP! HELP! I'M BEING |
| REPRESSED" |
|King Arthur: "Bloody Peasant!" |
|Dennis: "Oh what a give away. What a give away huh? Did you see that? |
| You saw 'im repressin' me didn't you ? That's what I'm on about!" |
--Monty Python & the Holy Grail |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Dear Sheldon,

Dear Lord, I hope no one draws any parallels between watery
matters leading anyone to expect to wield supreme executive
power and--

Never mind.

Carl Fogel

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:39:44 -0400, Sheldon Brown
wrote:

[snip merely bicycling-related matter]

Sheldon "Terse" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Dennis: "Listen, strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords, |
| is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power |
| derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical |
| aquatic ceremony" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up!" |
| |
|Dennis: "I mean you can't expect to wield supreme executive power |
| just because some watery tart threw a sword at you" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up!" |
|Dennis: "I mean if I went around saying I was an emperor, just because |
| some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up! Will you Shut Up!" |
|Dennis: Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the syststem. COME |
| SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM. HELP! HELP! I'M BEING |
| REPRESSED" |
|King Arthur: "Bloody Peasant!" |
|Dennis: "Oh what a give away. What a give away huh? Did you see that? |
| You saw 'im repressin' me didn't you ? That's what I'm on about!" |
--Monty Python & the Holy Grail |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Dear Sheldon,

Dear Lord, I hope no one draws any parallels between watery
matters leading anyone to expect to wield supreme executive
power and--

Never mind.

Carl Fogel

Sheldon Brown wrote:

Robert wrote:

Are you saying that the "shoulders" on the outside are not necessary
for strength and it's OK to use bolts only?

Yes.

Sheldon "Terse" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Dennis: "Listen, strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords, |
| is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power |
| derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical |
| aquatic ceremony" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up!" |
| |
|Dennis: "I mean you can't expect to wield supreme executive power |
| just because some watery tart threw a sword at you" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up!" |
|Dennis: "I mean if I went around saying I was an emperor, just because |
| some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away" |
|King Arthur: "Shut Up! Will you Shut Up!" |
|Dennis: Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the syststem. COME |
| SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM. HELP! HELP! I'M BEING |
| REPRESSED" |
|King Arthur: "Bloody Peasant!" |
|Dennis: "Oh what a give away. What a give away huh? Did you see that? |
| You saw 'im repressin' me didn't you ? That's what I'm on about!" |
--Monty Python & the Holy Grail |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+




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