What are they (cars) thinking when we...

So on this morning's regular King's Mtn road ride, we're heading fast down
Skyline towards Sky L'onda, with one of our guys in front of a rather large
tank truck of some kind. I guess he (the cyclist) wasn't feeling super-fast
this morning, so he decided to ride towards the edge of the road to allow
the guy to pass him.

Well, of course the tank truck passes him... on a blind corner, going well
into the other lane! What an idiot. About five seconds later and it would
have been blammo, as a car came by.

In my opinion, the cyclist on our ride should have taken the lane, to keep
the guy from passing in a dangerous area. Which brings me to this-

When we're heading up the hill, which has many blind corners, I routinely
give hand signals to hold cars back (keep them from passing) when I can see
ahead and there's a car heading down. Likewise I'll give hand signals to
cars coming down the hill, telling them to slow down, when there's a car
coming up from behind us.

So I'm thinking, are the car drivers actually appreciative of this, or
totally clueless and think that we're just in their way? Not that it would
matter, as it's the prudent thing to do, as, in my opinion, if something we
can do while riding makes the world just a bit better or safer place, we
ought to do it.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

In article ,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" writes:
So on this morning's regular King's Mtn road ride, we're heading fast down
Skyline towards Sky L'onda, with one of our guys in front of a rather large
tank truck of some kind. I guess he (the cyclist) wasn't feeling super-fast
this morning, so he decided to ride towards the edge of the road to allow
the guy to pass him.

Well, of course the tank truck passes him... on a blind corner, going well
into the other lane! What an idiot. About five seconds later and it would
have been blammo, as a car came by.

In my opinion, the cyclist on our ride should have taken the lane, to keep
the guy from passing in a dangerous area. Which brings me to this-

In my opinion, the truck driver should have known better.

When we're heading up the hill, which has many blind corners, I routinely
give hand signals to hold cars back (keep them from passing) when I can see
ahead and there's a car heading down. Likewise I'll give hand signals to
cars coming down the hill, telling them to slow down, when there's a car
coming up from behind us.

So I'm thinking, are the car drivers actually appreciative of this, or
totally clueless and think that we're just in their way? Not that it would
matter, as it's the prudent thing to do, as, in my opinion, if something we
can do while riding makes the world just a bit better or safer place, we
ought to do it.

Nothing wrong with being a nice guy, I guess. But I gotta wonder:
just how far are we supposed to go, doing other ppl's thinking
for them?


cheers,
Tom

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On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:05:46 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:

So on this morning's regular King's Mtn road ride, we're heading fast down
Skyline towards Sky L'onda, with one of our guys in front of a rather large
tank truck of some kind. I guess he (the cyclist) wasn't feeling super-fast
this morning, so he decided to ride towards the edge of the road to allow
the guy to pass him.

Well, of course the tank truck passes him... on a blind corner, going well
into the other lane! What an idiot. About five seconds later and it would
have been blammo, as a car came by.

In my opinion, the cyclist on our ride should have taken the lane, to keep
the guy from passing in a dangerous area. Which brings me to this-


For his *own* sake he should take the lane until he is certain that
the truck can pass him safely. If that truck comes around the curve
and sees a car heading towards it, the driver's immediate reaction
will be to avoid the head-on collision. Meaning swerve to the right.
Meaning into the bicyclist.

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

So on this morning's regular King's Mtn road ride, we're heading fast
down Skyline towards Sky L'onda, with one of our guys in front of a
rather large tank truck of some kind. I guess he (the cyclist)
wasn't feeling super-fast this morning, so he decided to ride towards
the edge of the road to allow the guy to pass him.

Well, of course the tank truck passes him... on a blind corner, going
well into the other lane! What an idiot. About five seconds later
and it would have been blammo, as a car came by.

In my opinion, the cyclist on our ride should have taken the lane, to
keep the guy from passing in a dangerous area. Which brings me to
this-

When we're heading up the hill, which has many blind corners, I
routinely give hand signals to hold cars back (keep them from
passing) when I can see ahead and there's a car heading down.
Likewise I'll give hand signals to cars coming down the hill, telling
them to slow down, when there's a car coming up from behind us.

So I'm thinking, are the car drivers actually appreciative of this, or
totally clueless and think that we're just in their way? Not that it
would matter, as it's the prudent thing to do, as, in my opinion, if
something we can do while riding makes the world just a bit better or
safer place, we ought to do it.

I don't know what they think. They're probably just impatient and stupid. Most
of this kind of behavior I see around here is by kids -- cars with VA Tech
stickers on them. It's easy to forget that some college kids are barely 18,
with very little driving experience, and they do really stupid things. The most
common bad situation around here is being passed on a hill with a sharp, blind
crest. This happened to me a few weeks ago, almost resulting in a head-on
collision, with me in close proximity. I could easily have been hit by one of
these cars, had they collided. There's even a double yellow line at that spot.

So I don't know what to do. I guess I should take the lane, and signal cars not
to pass. But that could be taken as a challenge, encouraging them to swing even
wider around me, dead into the oncoming lane. In that case, my sense of self
preservation says to hug the side of the road, so the idiot can squeeze by
without causing a head-on collision. If they're hell-bent on passing, there's
really nothing I can do. The best strategy may be to just stay out of the way.
So this one's a tough call sometimes.

Matt O.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
om...
snip
When we're heading up the hill, which has many blind corners, I routinely
give hand signals to hold cars back (keep them from passing) when I can
see
ahead and there's a car heading down. Likewise I'll give hand signals to
cars coming down the hill, telling them to slow down, when there's a car
coming up from behind us.

So I'm thinking, are the car drivers actually appreciative of this, or
totally clueless and think that we're just in their way? Not that it
would
matter, as it's the prudent thing to do, as, in my opinion, if something
we
can do while riding makes the world just a bit better or safer place, we
ought to do it.

As a driver I don't trust anyone at all. I've seen too many people trying
to be nice and screw things up, like the old lady driving 15mph, who pulls
over at a bad corner to let you pass instead of the huge straightaway she
just drove on for 5 miles ... or the idiot who stops in the middle of the
road to let you go when you can't go, then figures it out just in time for
an opening to show up, so you both decide to go, then you both stop ...
grrrrr. Many times someone else is trying to judge for me and gets things
totally wrong ... like some guy in a wimpy 4 banger trying to judge how much
road I need to pass without knowing I got a 454 under the hood. I mean, I
appreciate it I guess ... in the same way a cyclist appreciates a driver
beeping at them as they pass (c:

If this was Europe I would trust the hand signals, but not in the US. It
would be nice if everyone on the road could cooperate but I don't see that
happening. The mindset is too different. In the parts of Europe I've
driven in, speeding and passing are a normal thing and nobody get all up in
a tizzy if you want to drive fast, so everyone knows how to use hand signals
and everyone does use them ... around my part of the country, all the good
passing zones are being erased, and all the speed limits are being lowered
to raise revenue. Here it's "I'm own the road so screw you" instead of
"hey, I'll try to stay out of your way if you try to stay out of mine, and
it's cool if you want to go faster than me".

C.Q.C.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
om...
So on this morning's regular King's Mtn road ride, we're heading fast down
Skyline towards Sky L'onda, with one of our guys in front of a rather
large
tank truck of some kind. I guess he (the cyclist) wasn't feeling
super-fast
this morning, so he decided to ride towards the edge of the road to allow
the guy to pass him.

Well, of course the tank truck passes him... on a blind corner, going well
into the other lane! What an idiot. About five seconds later and it
would
have been blammo, as a car came by.

In my opinion, the cyclist on our ride should have taken the lane, to keep
the guy from passing in a dangerous area. Which brings me to this-

When we're heading up the hill, which has many blind corners, I routinely
give hand signals to hold cars back (keep them from passing) when I can
see
ahead and there's a car heading down. Likewise I'll give hand signals to
cars coming down the hill, telling them to slow down, when there's a car
coming up from behind us.

So I'm thinking, are the car drivers actually appreciative of this, or
totally clueless and think that we're just in their way? Not that it
would
matter, as it's the prudent thing to do, as, in my opinion, if something
we
can do while riding makes the world just a bit better or safer place, we
ought to do it.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com



I ride mostly on rolling, semi-rural roads and use those same hand signal
with cars that you describe. It seems to me that most cars are appreciative
(at least, the ones that pay attention). This is especially true with
elderly drivers who otherwise seem uncertain as to when they should pass me.

The rider going downhill should definitely have taken the lane. Hugging the
right shoulder in that scenario is dangerous for all involved. It invites a
bad pass by the car/truck, and if anything goes wrong the cyclist has no
room to maneuver. Plus, hugging the right on a fast descent can also get
you into trouble due to gravel, potholes, cracks, and the generally bad
pavement at the edge of the road.

Just my $.02.

--
~_-*
....G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

I do the same thing. Some drivers will trust my signal that it's safe
to pass, others will hang back needlessly, even when they can see for
themselves that there is no traffic coming, making other cars back up
behind them. I guess they're afraid I'm suddenly going to swerve
across the road when they pass, or perhaps some people just can't
judge the distance.

I expect some car drivers appreciate a cyclist who's trying to be
considerate, but I wouldn't care to guess what percentage of drivers
this is.

MP

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:05:46 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:

When we're heading up the hill, which has many blind corners, I routinely
give hand signals to hold cars back (keep them from passing) when I can see
ahead and there's a car heading down. Likewise I'll give hand signals to
cars coming down the hill, telling them to slow down, when there's a car
coming up from behind us.

So I'm thinking, are the car drivers actually appreciative of this, or
totally clueless and think that we're just in their way?

In article ,
GaryG wrote:
I ride mostly on rolling, semi-rural roads and use those same hand signal
with cars that you describe. It seems to me that most cars are appreciative
(at least, the ones that pay attention). This is especially true with
elderly drivers who otherwise seem uncertain as to when they should pass me.

Perhaps it is worth noting that many drivers have trouble judging the
speed of bicyclists, especially if they have been conditioned by seeing
mostly very slow child bicyclists. So when encountering a fast bicyclist,
they may mis-estimate the speed of the bicyclist (either over or under).
In a rural context, this may result in passing unsafely, or not passing
when it is safe. In other contexts, it may result in turning in front
of an approaching bicyclist who is going faster than the driver thinks
s/he is going.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

"Timothy J. Lee" wrote in message
...
In article ,
[...]
Perhaps it is worth noting that many drivers have trouble judging the
speed of bicyclists, especially if they have been conditioned by seeing
mostly very slow child bicyclists. So when encountering a fast bicyclist,
they may mis-estimate the speed of the bicyclist (either over or under).
In a rural context, this may result in passing unsafely, or not passing
when it is safe. In other contexts, it may result in turning in front
of an approaching bicyclist who is going faster than the driver thinks
s/he is going.

What most concerns me [in Seinfeldian terminology] are close-passers. I
find auto-addicts who misjudge the room they need to allow in passing a
bicycle most frightening. This is especially at intersections where my
instinct is to move further to the right to allow the faster moving autos to
clear the intersection/post-intersection area. The cyclist is then faced
with the daunting task of re-integrating into the traffic flow.

'Any good deed is its own punishment'

Sometimes selfish 'lane hogging' is a simple matter of self-preservation.

--
'Sergeant, we have crossed some strange boundary here.'
'The world has taken a turn for the surreal.' -Captain Miller
'Clearly, but the question still stands.' -Sergeant Horvath

In ba.bicycles Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
So I'm thinking, are the car drivers actually appreciative of this, or
totally clueless and think that we're just in their way? Not that it would
matter, as it's the prudent thing to do, as, in my opinion, if something we
can do while riding makes the world just a bit better or safer place, we
ought to do it.

I think it depends on the situation.

I remember finding a guy in a Porsche close on my tail once as I
approached a blind crest on a narrow road. Seeing a car coming the other
way, I gave a signal for him to wait, but he took that as a challenge and
ignored me, passing anyway, belatedly realizing his error and nearly
clipping my front wheel with his rear bumper as he swerved back into my
lane. I was ready for this and had braked in anticipation of his
stupidity.

On the other hand, some motorists, especially those who have been waiting
patiently for a little while (maybe 15-20 seconds, what seems like an
eternity to someone behind the wheel), seem to appreciate the
"wave-through" signal, especially when they can also see for themselves
that it is safe to pass. The signal also serves as acknowledgement to
the motorist that the bicyclist is aware.

In general, I prefer not to give directions to others road users whether
well-meaning or not. I think it's better for the motorist to make the
decision when she can see that there is enough space and time to make a
safe pass. Some drivers will pass quickly, and others, especially in a
truck or other heavy vehicle or those with a light foot will need more
time. I don't feel comfortable making that judgment call.

As a motorist I usually have no problem following a slower vehicle
(especially a bicycle) for as long as necessary, waiting until it is safe
to pass, and I never feel comfortable following a "wave-through" signal
of a bicyclist when I cannot judge for myself the safety of the situation
(e.g. at a blind curve that may not be blind for the bicyclist who, being
further around the corner, has better visibility).

I know that as a bicyclist it stressful to have a motor vehicle following
closely waiting to pass, and we would rather have them move on. We tend
to believe that the driver is steaming with impatience. But I do not
believe this is always the case. Usually a safe opportunity to pass will
present itself within 30 seconds. In the rare event that it takes
longer, then I usually pull over and stop if I feel it's safe for me to
do so.

--
Bill Bushnell