Thinking about having a SON,

Andre Jute wrote:
On Mar 31, 9:21 pm, Peter Cole wrote:

Looking at Ebay.de and various UK sites, I'm surprised not to see any
inexpensive LED front lamps.

You're looking at the by-effects of the nanny-state which is the
European Union.

You want the quality, you have to pay for it. It is the law.

All that (snipped for brevity) is interesting, but I don't want quality,
I want light.

I can get a 3W LED lamp for $15-20. The IQ CYO is $115 here. I'm sure
it's a nice light, but I'm not eager to make that kind of investment,
particularly in a technology that's changing measurably every year. The
European standard apparently is for 10 lux minimum, with the better
halogen units providing up to 20, while the IQ CYO is rated at 60. Since
there are only a couple of LED suppliers worldwide, it's a certainty
that the LED in my cheap light is as good or better (I know the part #).
Granted, the optics and housing are inferior, but efficiency is such a
overwhelming factor that hardly matters. In any case, I'm not looking
for an heirloom, the best of these lights will be a casualty of Moore's
law in a year or so.

The minimum 3x efficiency improvement of the latest and best power LEDs
and the comparable gains in battery technology have made halogen lights
obsolete and dynamos (even with improvements and price reductions) hard
to justify. While it's true that I can get a "gray market" dynohub front
wheel for under $100, the LED lamp for it is at least that much making
the whole system $200 or so. The $60-85 price of a decent bottle and
halogen set is more practical, but I don't feature cycling with dim
bulbs or noisy generators. I also swap tires frequently, often by
swapping wheels. I also have 3 bikes I ride at night, often with my
family, so that's another 3 bikes to consider, minimum.

I understand that standards can stifle innovation and increase costs. I
suppose that's a fair trade to get uniform and safe lighting. If I were
a "regulated" cyclist, I'd just buy the state minimum and augment it
with a more modern system. I don't have to do that here.

On Apr 1, 10:58*am, Peter Cole wrote:


The minimum 3x efficiency improvement of the latest and best power LEDs
and the comparable gains in battery technology have made halogen lights
obsolete and dynamos (even with improvements and price reductions) hard
to justify.

I think the difference of opinion is rooted in what we expect of our
bikes. Some don't mind frequently fussing with batteries, or perhaps
have greater diligence, or they haven't been disappointed by their
light dimming down to zero with miles to go, or they simply ride very
little at night.

Others (or at least, I) just got tired of all the fussing. I want my
bike lights to be as convenient as my motorcycle lights or car
lights. Based on my experience, even solar-recharged batteries won't
do that for a bike. So it's hard for me to justify anything but a
generator. And believe me, I've tried lots of alternatives.


While it's true that I can get a "gray market" dynohub front
wheel for under $100...

It is interesting that we have one poster who frequently claims the
only acceptable generator setup is a SON, at something like $400; and
we have another who claims they cost only $40 because he found a few
on E-bay. We may need some rules on how we discuss prices.

(FWIW, my neighbor gave me a bottle generator yesterday. But that
wouldn't tempt me to claim generators are free.)

the LED lamp for it is at least that much making
the whole system $200 or so. The $60-85 price of a decent bottle and
halogen set is more practical, but I don't feature cycling with dim
bulbs or noisy generators.

To get practical about this: I believe most of the noise of a bottle
generator is the whine of the little teeth on the typical drive wheel
as they impact the sidewall. One friend of mine had a bottle unit
(AXA, I believe) with a smooth rubber drive wheel that ran on the rim
surface. I recently took an old Union generator, put the drive wheel
on a lathe and cut a groove into which I snapped a thick O-ring. I
don't have many miles on it, but it seems quieter.

And as I've said, the roller units are almost perfectly inaudible.
Those are my favorites.

But the idea of spending big bucks ($75 or more?) for an LED headlight
is unpalatable to me, too. I really think it's time for someone to
market an LED replacement for a standard 6V, 2.4W halogen generator
bulb. There are millions of halogen generator headlamps in use with
very good optics. LED drop-in replacement bulbs could give more
lumens, and the optics should be almost as good.

The thermal conduction problem would need some attention, but - at
least according to an acquaintance of mine (VP of research for an LED
product company) - even an overly hot LED should last many hundreds of
hours before degrading significantly. How many hours depends, I
suppose, on how hot it gets, but IIRC standard bicycle halogen bulbs
are rated for only a couple hundred hours life.

An added benefit would be less drag, I think. From spec sheets I've
looked at, the half amp that almost all bike generators put out would
produce less than six volts load from an LED. That means less than 3W
output, so less than the standard amount of drag.

And there are drop-in replacement LED bulbs for flashlights, with no
cooling modifications. I think this is possible for bike headlights.

- Frank Krygowski

On Apr 1, 3:58*pm, Peter Cole wrote:

The minimum 3x efficiency improvement of the latest and best power LEDs
and the comparable gains in battery technology have made halogen lights
obsolete and dynamos (even with improvements and price reductions) hard
to justify. While it's true that I can get a "gray market" dynohub front
wheel for under $100, the LED lamp for it is at least that much making
the whole system $200 or so. The $60-85 price of a decent bottle and
halogen set is more practical, but I don't feature cycling with dim
bulbs or noisy generators. I also swap tires frequently, often by
swapping wheels. I also have 3 bikes I ride at night, often with my
family, so that's another 3 bikes to consider, minimum.

That could add up to an injury in the wallet, all right. -- AJ