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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution



 
 
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  #61  
Old May 8th 18, 05:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 2018-05-08 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip

That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine
went.

I didn't see the first one, but I'm still not concerned. It's
not bulging, and if I were worried and didn't want to trash the
tire (they're not cheap), I'd put a patch behind the scuff and
throw some Shoe Goo on it.


I know people who even think about their car tires that way. Some
threads showing? Aw, heck!


Quit crab-walking. We're not talking about cars. We're not talking
about MTBs. We're not talking about a fox in a box. We're talking
about a scuff on a Gatorskin -- a road tire on a rear wheel. It's not
a runaway truck filled with nitroglycerin.


It's similar. Also, a road bike has two wheels, not just a rear wheel.

[...]


Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some
epic smashing of a MTB tire on rocks. You're talking about
riding a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is
about exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions
that tax ordinary bicycles. For you, maybe a scuff is fatal. On
a normal road bike not so much.


Yeah, right. As a kid I had a front blow-out in a tunnel on the way
back home from school. Just a normal paved road. Narrow one-lane
tunnel and I wanted to beat the traffic light that guided
direction. The long descent before the tunnel helped me get to
speed. I must have hit some sort of pothole in the fairly dark
tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that tunnel but separated
from my road bike and the school pack came rolling out last
according to the first driver waiting at the light on the other
side. The front tire had popped. For a few days I had to sleep on
one side because the other hurt a lot.


So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this
illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB
-- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What
are you suggesting here -- solid tires?


Tires with proper side walls. That's what blew out in the tunnel.

Again, I don't care whether you, Doug or others use Gatorskins with
compromised side walls. It's your lives. Here at our house they are
banned and will no longer be purchased.


You know the manufacturers are so stupid. That fat Michelin man. I
call him sad Michelin man -- a failing tire company. If they did like
I suggested in 1982 and made solid tires, they would be great again.
Losers.

BTW, I've never crashed because of an equipment failure. I've broken
three pedals, snapped six or more cranks (at least three while out of
the saddle sprinting), broken handle bars, seat posts. No fork
failures or wheel collapses, which I would expect to cause a crash.
Never crashed because of a blown tire. Oh, I take it back, I picked
up a thorn riding over to the Alpenrose velodrome and ultimately
flatted in a bank and slid down -- but that's only because I stopped
pedaling.
http://hubalabike.com/wp-content/upl...me_43_bank.jpg


That's the same kind of "logic" as saying that grandpa tooled around in
the old Studebaker which didn't have seat belts and he lived to ripe old
age, so seat belts are "not needed".

The worst crash in our family happened to my dad when he was young. The
frame of his bike broke in half at a good speed.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #62  
Old May 8th 18, 06:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 08/05/2018 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-08 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip

That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine
went.

I didn't see the first one, but I'm still not concerned.Â* It's
not bulging, and if I were worried and didn't want to trash the
tire (they're not cheap), I'd put a patch behind the scuff and
throw some Shoe Goo on it.


I know people who even think about their car tires that way. Some
threads showing? Aw, heck!


Quit crab-walking. We're not talking about cars.Â* We're not talking
about MTBs.Â* We're not talking about a fox in a box.Â* We're talking
about a scuff on a Gatorskin -- a road tire on a rear wheel. It's not
a runaway truck filled with nitroglycerin.


It's similar. Also, a road bike has two wheels, not just a rear wheel.

[...]


Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some
epic smashing of a MTB tire on rocks.Â* You're talking about
riding a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is
about exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions
that tax ordinary bicycles.Â* For you, maybe a scuff is fatal.Â* On
a normal road bike not so much.


Yeah, right. As a kid I had a front blow-out in a tunnel on the way
back home from school. Just a normal paved road. Narrow one-lane
tunnel and I wanted to beat the traffic light that guided
direction. The long descent before the tunnel helped me get to
speed. I must have hit some sort of pothole in the fairly dark
tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that tunnel but separated
from my road bike and the school pack came rolling out last
according to the first driver waiting at the light on the other
side. The front tire had popped. For a few days I had to sleep on
one side because the other hurt a lot.


So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this
illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB
-- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What
are you suggesting here -- solid tires?


Tires with proper side walls. That's what blew out in the tunnel.

Again, I don't care whether you, Doug or others use Gatorskins with
compromised side walls. It's your lives. Here at our house they are
banned and will no longer be purchased.



Yeah but your evidence seems flawed. You're saying that you careem
downhill at speed on a road bike into a dark tunnel, hit a pothole
blowing a tire and crash and it's the tire's fault?



You know the manufacturers are so stupid. That fat Michelin man.Â* I
call him sad Michelin man -- a failing tire company. If they did like
I suggested in 1982 and made solid tires, they would be great again.
Losers.

BTW, I've never crashed because of an equipment failure. I've broken
three pedals, snapped six or more cranks (at least three while out of
the saddle sprinting), broken handle bars, seat posts.Â* No fork
failures or wheel collapses, which I would expect to cause a crash.
Never crashed because of a blown tire. Oh, I take it back,Â* I picked
up a thorn riding over to the Alpenrose velodrome and ultimately
flatted in a bank and slid down -- but that's only because I stopped
pedaling.
http://hubalabike.com/wp-content/upl...me_43_bank.jpg



That's the same kind of "logic" as saying that grandpa tooled around in
the old Studebaker which didn't have seat belts and he lived to ripe old
age, so seat belts are "not needed".


No, I think what he means is **** happens more to you than to most
people. But you seem to blame the equipment. I get that mountain biking
can be more extreme but we're talking about road bikes here.

The worst crash in our family happened to my dad when he was young. The
frame of his bike broke in half at a good speed.


I've never even heard of a bike breaking in half much less a presumably
steel bike. What did he hit?

  #63  
Old May 8th 18, 06:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 2018-05-08 10:09, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2018 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-08 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip

That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine
went.

I didn't see the first one, but I'm still not concerned. It's
not bulging, and if I were worried and didn't want to trash the
tire (they're not cheap), I'd put a patch behind the scuff and
throw some Shoe Goo on it.


I know people who even think about their car tires that way. Some
threads showing? Aw, heck!

Quit crab-walking. We're not talking about cars. We're not talking
about MTBs. We're not talking about a fox in a box. We're talking
about a scuff on a Gatorskin -- a road tire on a rear wheel. It's not
a runaway truck filled with nitroglycerin.


It's similar. Also, a road bike has two wheels, not just a rear wheel.

[...]


Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some
epic smashing of a MTB tire on rocks. You're talking about
riding a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is
about exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions
that tax ordinary bicycles. For you, maybe a scuff is fatal. On
a normal road bike not so much.


Yeah, right. As a kid I had a front blow-out in a tunnel on the way
back home from school. Just a normal paved road. Narrow one-lane
tunnel and I wanted to beat the traffic light that guided
direction. The long descent before the tunnel helped me get to
speed. I must have hit some sort of pothole in the fairly dark
tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that tunnel but separated
from my road bike and the school pack came rolling out last
according to the first driver waiting at the light on the other
side. The front tire had popped. For a few days I had to sleep on
one side because the other hurt a lot.


So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this
illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB
-- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What
are you suggesting here -- solid tires?


Tires with proper side walls. That's what blew out in the tunnel.

Again, I don't care whether you, Doug or others use Gatorskins with
compromised side walls. It's your lives. Here at our house they are
banned and will no longer be purchased.



Yeah but your evidence seems flawed. You're saying that you careem
downhill at speed on a road bike into a dark tunnel, hit a pothole
blowing a tire and crash and it's the tire's fault?


It wasn't a major pothole and I expect from any road vehicle that it is
able to handle ... roads.



You know the manufacturers are so stupid. That fat Michelin man. I
call him sad Michelin man -- a failing tire company. If they did like
I suggested in 1982 and made solid tires, they would be great again.
Losers.

BTW, I've never crashed because of an equipment failure. I've broken
three pedals, snapped six or more cranks (at least three while out of
the saddle sprinting), broken handle bars, seat posts. No fork
failures or wheel collapses, which I would expect to cause a crash.
Never crashed because of a blown tire. Oh, I take it back, I picked
up a thorn riding over to the Alpenrose velodrome and ultimately
flatted in a bank and slid down -- but that's only because I stopped
pedaling.
http://hubalabike.com/wp-content/upl...me_43_bank.jpg



That's the same kind of "logic" as saying that grandpa tooled around
in the old Studebaker which didn't have seat belts and he lived to
ripe old age, so seat belts are "not needed".


No, I think what he means is **** happens more to you than to most
people. But you seem to blame the equipment.



I use my equipment for what it was intended to be used. Regarding road
tires I found that cheap Asian tires do not suffer from such fast side
wall deterioration. Compared to Gatorskin I get only half the miles out
of a rear tire but then again they cost $15 or less versus $40 or more
that the Gatorskins used to cost me. Plus no premature side wall
failures. When a Gatorskin blew its side wall at less than 1000mi and
ruined a $15 thorn-resistant tube in the wake I was very p....d.

This isn't too surprising because I found the same effect with MTB
tires. Pricey "name brand" tires failed in the sidewalls, including
expensive S-Works tires. Cheap Thai tires don't. The only "Western" tire
with really good side walls that I saw so far is the Schwalbe Hans Dampf
but they want a whopping 90(!) bucks for a 29er. Which boils down to
more than 10c/mile just for a rear tire. No thanks.


... I get that mountain biking
can be more extreme but we're talking about road bikes here.

The worst crash in our family happened to my dad when he was young.
The frame of his bike broke in half at a good speed.


I've never even heard of a bike breaking in half much less a presumably
steel bike. What did he hit?


Nothing, it just broke apart while riding along a cobblestone road which
shakes a bike a bit but not excessively. It was a good quality
name-brand steel frame bike similar to a Dutch city bike.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #64  
Old May 8th 18, 07:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 08/05/2018 1:32 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-08 10:09, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2018 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-08 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip

That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine
went.

I didn't see the first one, but I'm still not concerned.Â* It's
not bulging, and if I were worried and didn't want to trash the
tire (they're not cheap), I'd put a patch behind the scuff and
throw some Shoe Goo on it.


I know people who even think about their car tires that way. Some
threads showing? Aw, heck!

Quit crab-walking. We're not talking about cars.Â* We're not talking
about MTBs.Â* We're not talking about a fox in a box.Â* We're talking
about a scuff on a Gatorskin -- a road tire on a rear wheel. It's not
a runaway truck filled with nitroglycerin.


It's similar. Also, a road bike has two wheels, not just a rear wheel.

[...]


Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some
epic smashing of a MTB tire on rocks.Â* You're talking about
riding a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is
about exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions
that tax ordinary bicycles.Â* For you, maybe a scuff is fatal.Â* On
a normal road bike not so much.


Yeah, right. As a kid I had a front blow-out in a tunnel on the way
back home from school. Just a normal paved road. Narrow one-lane
tunnel and I wanted to beat the traffic light that guided
direction. The long descent before the tunnel helped me get to
speed. I must have hit some sort of pothole in the fairly dark
tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that tunnel but separated
from my road bike and the school pack came rolling out last
according to the first driver waiting at the light on the other
side. The front tire had popped. For a few days I had to sleep on
one side because the other hurt a lot.


So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this
illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB
-- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What
are you suggesting here -- solid tires?


Tires with proper side walls. That's what blew out in the tunnel.

Again, I don't care whether you, Doug or others use Gatorskins with
compromised side walls. It's your lives. Here at our house they are
banned and will no longer be purchased.



Yeah but your evidence seems flawed.Â* You're saying that you careem
downhill at speed on a road bike into a dark tunnel, hit a pothole
blowing a tire and crash and it's the tire's fault?


It wasn't a major pothole and I expect from any road vehicle that it is
able to handle ... roads.


Don't try driving on Quebec roads then. Hitting a pothole around here
can bust a tie rod. Been there, done that. There's even a law that
excludes the municipality from liability in that case. What world do
you live in where equipment can take any abuse you throw at it?

Anyway, what you described is reckless behavior, even if you now say
that it wasn't a big pothole. Maybe the hill wasn't that steep and the
tunnel not that dark. Stick with your Chinese import tires if you like
but quick complaining about it.



You know the manufacturers are so stupid. That fat Michelin man.Â* I
call him sad Michelin man -- a failing tire company. If they did like
I suggested in 1982 and made solid tires, they would be great again.
Losers.

BTW, I've never crashed because of an equipment failure. I've broken
three pedals, snapped six or more cranks (at least three while out of
the saddle sprinting), broken handle bars, seat posts.Â* No fork
failures or wheel collapses, which I would expect to cause a crash.
Never crashed because of a blown tire. Oh, I take it back,Â* I picked
up a thorn riding over to the Alpenrose velodrome and ultimately
flatted in a bank and slid down -- but that's only because I stopped
pedaling.
http://hubalabike.com/wp-content/upl...me_43_bank.jpg




That's the same kind of "logic" as saying that grandpa tooled around
in the old Studebaker which didn't have seat belts and he lived to
ripe old age, so seat belts are "not needed".


No, I think what he means is **** happens more to you than to most
people. But you seem to blame the equipment.



I use my equipment for what it was intended to be used. Regarding road
tires I found that cheap Asian tires do not suffer from such fast side
wall deterioration. Compared to Gatorskin I get only half the miles out
of a rear tire but then again they cost $15 or less versus $40 or more
that the Gatorskins used to cost me. Plus no premature side wall
failures. When a Gatorskin blew its side wall at less than 1000mi and
ruined a $15 thorn-resistant tube in the wake I was very p....d.

This isn't too surprising because I found the same effect with MTB
tires. Pricey "name brand" tires failed in the sidewalls, including
expensive S-Works tires. Cheap Thai tires don't. The only "Western" tire
with really good side walls that I saw so far is the Schwalbe Hans Dampf
but they want a whopping 90(!) bucks for a 29er. Which boils down to
more than 10c/mile just for a rear tire. No thanks.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... I get that mountain biking
can be more extreme but we're talking about road bikes here.

The worst crash in our family happened to my dad when he was young.
The frame of his bike broke in half at a good speed.


I've never even heard of a bike breaking in half much less a presumably
steel bike.Â* What did he hit?


Nothing, it just broke apart while riding along a cobblestone road which
shakes a bike a bit but not excessively. It was a good quality
name-brand steel frame bike similar to a Dutch city bike.


  #65  
Old May 8th 18, 07:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 5/7/2018 8:47 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 7:02:00 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2018 9:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:39:31 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

And what do you do for the front? Bikes have two wheels. Call your wife
from the hospital that dinner is off tonight, and the next 10-20 days?

Wow, you're a nervous nelly. And what about the front? We're talking about a rear wheel and a casing scuff. If it were on the front tire, I'd keep an eye on it. I've ridden front tires booted with a $1 bill for many, many miles.


On our coast-to-coast tour, my daughter got a gash over 1/2" in the
front tire of her Terry bike. That bike has an odd size front wheel.
Late Saturday in South Dakota, there was absolutely no way to get a
replacement tire. Ditto Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday... The best
we could do was to call Terry Inc. on Monday and get it quick-shipped to
the next bike shop on our route, which was well over a hundred miles away.

On the road, I triple-booted the tire and we ran low pressure the rest
of that day. In the motel, I stitched the gash back together as well as
I could, re-did the internal boots, and rode the tire all those miles to
that bike shop.

I guess Joerg would have taken a taxi?


No, Joerg's tire would have exploded violently, blowing his body parts all over the road. He would have been mailed home in a giant Ziplock bag. Mundane mechanical failures are catastrophic, life endangering events for Joerg.

BTW, you guys sure did go north. I was further south on the Bikecentennial alignment through Colorado, Kansas and then Missery. It was an unremarkable trip from a tire standpoint except that the locals always wanted to know how many tires we had gone through. It was the question right after "where are you from." The only memorable part tire-wise was buying a couple Michelin tubes that I couldn't get to hold a patch. The mold release was nasty, and I had to sand the hell out of them to get anything to stick. I still have my first-generation Specialized folding Turbo spare from that trip -- which I never had to use and couldn't use now because its a 27" -- because that's what was more available back then (and Schrader valves).


I remember looking at the original Terry bikes with the two different
size wheels and thinking that those would not be the best choice for
touring, even though there was a good reason for the different sized wheels.

On long tours I do carry one fold-up tire, but generally everyone has a
bicycle with same 700c wheels and anyone can use the tire if need be. I
was on a local ride with my kids once where the sidewall of the tire was
failing and I booted it so the tube wouldn't pop out and we detoured
over to Performance and I bought a tire and put it on in the parking
lot, but on an Oregon Coast tour the bicycle shops were few and far
between, though most towns had a Coast to Coast hardware store with a
few bicycle related items.

Back when I started touring there were small frame touring bicycles with
700c tires, now I think 26" would be used, like Surly does on the
smaller framed LHT models.
  #66  
Old May 8th 18, 07:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 11:47:48 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 7:02:00 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On our coast-to-coast tour, my daughter got a gash over 1/2" in the
front tire of her Terry bike. That bike has an odd size front wheel.
Late Saturday in South Dakota, there was absolutely no way to get a
replacement tire. Ditto Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday... The best
we could do was to call Terry Inc. on Monday and get it quick-shipped to
the next bike shop on our route, which was well over a hundred miles away.

On the road, I triple-booted the tire and we ran low pressure the rest
of that day. In the motel, I stitched the gash back together as well as
I could, re-did the internal boots, and rode the tire all those miles to
that bike shop.

I guess Joerg would have taken a taxi?


No, Joerg's tire would have exploded violently, blowing his body parts all over the road. He would have been mailed home in a giant Ziplock bag. Mundane mechanical failures are catastrophic, life endangering events for Joerg.

BTW, you guys sure did go north. I was further south on the Bikecentennial alignment through Colorado, Kansas and then Missery. It was an unremarkable trip from a tire standpoint except that the locals always wanted to know how many tires we had gone through. It was the question right after "where are you from."


Yes, we went north. It was mostly because I wanted to follow the Lewis & Clark
route. Adventure Cycling had just finished those maps. The Missouri gets
surprisingly close to Canada.

The northern route was also an attempt to stay out of extreme heat. My wife
hates the heat. But that was atotal failure. The heat was brutal that year, all
the way west from the Dakotas.

The "how many tires" question is still common when people hear about the trip.
My daughter's front was the only total failure, from that gash, but we did
have problems with sidewall bubbles on our Conti Top Touring tires. And after
riding from the Atlantic to our home in Ohio, I switched from 37s to 32s,
because to my surprise, the 37s grew a bit in width as I rode - maybe because
of the bumpy C&O Towpath? - and ate up their clearance between my chainstays.

But no major problems. None of Joerg's cartoon sound effects, like *KABOOM*
or *KAPOW*. No metal shrapnel, no fragmented bike parts.

- Frank Krygowski
  #67  
Old May 8th 18, 07:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 10:32:23 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoCSzVmhhQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnf7VdofZF0


Wait a minute! Why didn't they show the fractured bike parts, the metal shrapnel,
the gory dead bodies? Where was the cartoon *KABLOOIE!!!*

Heck, the mountain biker didn't even fall down!

- Frank Krygowski
  #68  
Old May 8th 18, 08:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 2018-05-08 11:13, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2018 1:32 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-08 10:09, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2018 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-08 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip


[...]

Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some
epic smashing of a MTB tire on rocks. You're talking about
riding a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is
about exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions
that tax ordinary bicycles. For you, maybe a scuff is fatal. On
a normal road bike not so much.


Yeah, right. As a kid I had a front blow-out in a tunnel on the way
back home from school. Just a normal paved road. Narrow one-lane
tunnel and I wanted to beat the traffic light that guided
direction. The long descent before the tunnel helped me get to
speed. I must have hit some sort of pothole in the fairly dark
tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that tunnel but separated
from my road bike and the school pack came rolling out last
according to the first driver waiting at the light on the other
side. The front tire had popped. For a few days I had to sleep on
one side because the other hurt a lot.


So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this
illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB
-- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What
are you suggesting here -- solid tires?


Tires with proper side walls. That's what blew out in the tunnel.

Again, I don't care whether you, Doug or others use Gatorskins with
compromised side walls. It's your lives. Here at our house they are
banned and will no longer be purchased.



Yeah but your evidence seems flawed. You're saying that you careem
downhill at speed on a road bike into a dark tunnel, hit a pothole
blowing a tire and crash and it's the tire's fault?


It wasn't a major pothole and I expect from any road vehicle that it
is able to handle ... roads.


Don't try driving on Quebec roads then. Hitting a pothole around here
can bust a tie rod. Been there, done that. There's even a law that
excludes the municipality from liability in that case. What world do
you live in where equipment can take any abuse you throw at it?


I didn't say "any", I said "road". It was in Germany where
municipalities were responsible to a non-fixed major hole if negligence
could be proven. At least back then.


Anyway, what you described is reckless behavior, even if you now say
that it wasn't a big pothole.



Going through a tunnel on a road bike is not reckless, it is called
riding. The road isn't very steep but enough to get to a good speed.


... Maybe the hill wasn't that steep and the
tunnel not that dark. Stick with your Chinese import tires if you like
but quick complaining about it.


Not Chinese, I tried CST and it's thumbs down. Thailand makes better
tires IMO. On the MTB they have proven themselves very well. Got one on
the road bike now and a few more are coming. So far I am impressed.
Despite some gravel road exposure no side wall damage at all.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #69  
Old May 8th 18, 08:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 10:32:47 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-08 10:09, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2018 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-08 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip

That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine
went.

I didn't see the first one, but I'm still not concerned. It's
not bulging, and if I were worried and didn't want to trash the
tire (they're not cheap), I'd put a patch behind the scuff and
throw some Shoe Goo on it.


I know people who even think about their car tires that way. Some
threads showing? Aw, heck!

Quit crab-walking. We're not talking about cars. We're not talking
about MTBs. We're not talking about a fox in a box. We're talking
about a scuff on a Gatorskin -- a road tire on a rear wheel. It's not
a runaway truck filled with nitroglycerin.


It's similar. Also, a road bike has two wheels, not just a rear wheel.

[...]


Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some
epic smashing of a MTB tire on rocks. You're talking about
riding a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is
about exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions
that tax ordinary bicycles. For you, maybe a scuff is fatal. On
a normal road bike not so much.


Yeah, right. As a kid I had a front blow-out in a tunnel on the way
back home from school. Just a normal paved road. Narrow one-lane
tunnel and I wanted to beat the traffic light that guided
direction. The long descent before the tunnel helped me get to
speed. I must have hit some sort of pothole in the fairly dark
tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that tunnel but separated
from my road bike and the school pack came rolling out last
according to the first driver waiting at the light on the other
side. The front tire had popped. For a few days I had to sleep on
one side because the other hurt a lot.


So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this
illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB
-- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What
are you suggesting here -- solid tires?


Tires with proper side walls. That's what blew out in the tunnel.

Again, I don't care whether you, Doug or others use Gatorskins with
compromised side walls. It's your lives. Here at our house they are
banned and will no longer be purchased.



Yeah but your evidence seems flawed. You're saying that you careem
downhill at speed on a road bike into a dark tunnel, hit a pothole
blowing a tire and crash and it's the tire's fault?


It wasn't a major pothole and I expect from any road vehicle that it is
able to handle ... roads.



You know the manufacturers are so stupid. That fat Michelin man. I
call him sad Michelin man -- a failing tire company. If they did like
I suggested in 1982 and made solid tires, they would be great again.
Losers.

BTW, I've never crashed because of an equipment failure. I've broken
three pedals, snapped six or more cranks (at least three while out of
the saddle sprinting), broken handle bars, seat posts. No fork
failures or wheel collapses, which I would expect to cause a crash.
Never crashed because of a blown tire. Oh, I take it back, I picked
up a thorn riding over to the Alpenrose velodrome and ultimately
flatted in a bank and slid down -- but that's only because I stopped
pedaling.
http://hubalabike.com/wp-content/upl...me_43_bank.jpg



That's the same kind of "logic" as saying that grandpa tooled around
in the old Studebaker which didn't have seat belts and he lived to
ripe old age, so seat belts are "not needed".


No, I think what he means is **** happens more to you than to most
people. But you seem to blame the equipment.



I use my equipment for what it was intended to be used.


Pffffff (spitting out coffee). You have a Euro sport bike with Mod E-ish rims and 600EX museum piece equipment, 23mm tires (?) and you've saddle it with all sorts of racks and then ride it on super-gnarly death-trails. You are taking a mid-fi club racing bike and using it as an adventure bike. Can you even get a 28mm Gatorskin under the fork crown or brake bridge?

My commuter has 28mm Gatorskins. They're not the best rolling tires in the world, but they last O.K. No sidewall problems. I had sidewall problems with UltraSports and Panasonic Paselas. The Vittoria Zaffiros were flat-magnets, and wet traction was just O.K.


-- Jay Beattie.




  #70  
Old May 8th 18, 09:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 08/05/2018 3:34 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-08 11:13, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2018 1:32 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-08 10:09, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2018 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-08 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip


[...]

Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some
epic smashing of a MTB tire on rocks.Â* You're talking about
riding a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is
about exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions
that tax ordinary bicycles.Â* For you, maybe a scuff is fatal.Â* On
a normal road bike not so much.


Yeah, right. As a kid I had a front blow-out in a tunnel on the way
back home from school. Just a normal paved road. Narrow one-lane
tunnel and I wanted to beat the traffic light that guided
direction. The long descent before the tunnel helped me get to
speed. I must have hit some sort of pothole in the fairly dark
tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that tunnel but separated
from my road bike and the school pack came rolling out last
according to the first driver waiting at the light on the other
side. The front tire had popped. For a few days I had to sleep on
one side because the other hurt a lot.


So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this
illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB
-- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What
are you suggesting here -- solid tires?


Tires with proper side walls. That's what blew out in the tunnel.

Again, I don't care whether you, Doug or others use Gatorskins with
compromised side walls. It's your lives. Here at our house they are
banned and will no longer be purchased.



Yeah but your evidence seems flawed.Â* You're saying that you careem
downhill at speed on a road bike into a dark tunnel, hit a pothole
blowing a tire and crash and it's the tire's fault?


It wasn't a major pothole and I expect from any road vehicle that it
is able to handle ... roads.


Don't try driving on Quebec roads then.Â* Hitting a pothole around here
can bust a tie rod.Â* Been there, done that.Â* There's even a law that
excludes the municipality from liability in that case.Â* What world do
you live in where equipment can take any abuse you throw at it?


I didn't say "any", I said "road". It was in Germany where
municipalities were responsible to a non-fixed major hole if negligence
could be proven. At least back then.


Well they are responsible here if you can prove that they knew about it
and failed to repair it. Good luck with that. So you are saying you
think a car should not be damaged by hitting potholes on a road?


Anyway, what you described is reckless behavior, even if you now say
that it wasn't a big pothole.



Going through a tunnel on a road bike is not reckless, it is called
riding. The road isn't very steep but enough to get to a good speed.


You said you were going through a dark tunnel at speed and hit a pothole
you didn't see:

direction. The long descent before the tunnel helped me get to
speed. I must have hit some sort of pothole in the fairly dark
tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that tunnel but






Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... Maybe the hill wasn't that steep and the
tunnel not that dark.Â* Stick with your Chinese import tires if you like
but quick complaining about it.


Not Chinese, I tried CST and it's thumbs down. Thailand makes better
tires IMO. On the MTB they have proven themselves very well. Got one on
the road bike now and a few more are coming. So far I am impressed.
Despite some gravel road exposure no side wall damage at all.


So if you're happy about your tires why do you keep complaining?

 




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