Cantilever brake headaches...

I have a cross bike with a pair of older DA 8-speed levers and early
90's XT low profile cantilevers, and have been tearing my hair out
trying to get the brakes set up properly.

I am trying to get the front brake to the point where I can get the
back wheel to unload with moderate hand force without squealing. With
the straddle set low, and the pads extended all the way out on their
posts, I can get adequate braking leverage. But despite changing to
salmon pads and putting teflon tape on the fixing bolts, I get loud and
annoying squeal even with light presure on the brakes. I rode the bike
this way for several weeks hoping the squeal would go away. It didn't,
and now there are fretting marks on the posts and the surfaces of the
brake arms where the fixing bolts attach.

If I move the pads in a few millimeters so they aren't extended as far
from the arms, the squealing disappears but so does my leverage. I
can't get the back wheel to lift even if I pull the lever as hard as I
can.

I'm surprised that this is such a hassle, given that others have posted
about getting good performance with low profile cantilevers and road
levers.

Any tips? Should I give up and try another brand/model?

Dave wrote:
I have a cross bike with a pair of older DA 8-speed levers and early
90's XT low profile cantilevers, and have been tearing my hair out
trying to get the brakes set up properly.

I am trying to get the front brake to the point where I can get the
back wheel to unload with moderate hand force without squealing. With
the straddle set low, and the pads extended all the way out on their
posts, I can get adequate braking leverage. But despite changing to
salmon pads and putting teflon tape on the fixing bolts, I get loud and
annoying squeal even with light presure on the brakes. I rode the bike
this way for several weeks hoping the squeal would go away. It didn't,
and now there are fretting marks on the posts and the surfaces of the
brake arms where the fixing bolts attach.

If I move the pads in a few millimeters so they aren't extended as far
from the arms, the squealing disappears but so does my leverage. I
can't get the back wheel to lift even if I pull the lever as hard as I
can.

I'm surprised that this is such a hassle, given that others have posted
about getting good performance with low profile cantilevers and road
levers.

Any tips? Should I give up and try another brand/model?

Salmon pads make squeal more likely because of their high coefficient of
friction.

Try a ride in the rain before you blame the geometry. Often any noise
disappears once a bit of gritty water has bedded the pads in.

Dave wrote:
I have a cross bike with a pair of older DA 8-speed levers and early
90's XT low profile cantilevers, and have been tearing my hair out
trying to get the brakes set up properly.

I am trying to get the front brake to the point where I can get the
back wheel to unload with moderate hand force without squealing. With
the straddle set low, and the pads extended all the way out on their
posts, I can get adequate braking leverage. But despite changing to
salmon pads and putting teflon tape on the fixing bolts, I get loud and
annoying squeal even with light presure on the brakes. I rode the bike
this way for several weeks hoping the squeal would go away. It didn't,
and now there are fretting marks on the posts and the surfaces of the
brake arms where the fixing bolts attach.

If I move the pads in a few millimeters so they aren't extended as far
from the arms, the squealing disappears but so does my leverage. I
can't get the back wheel to lift even if I pull the lever as hard as I
can.

I'm surprised that this is such a hassle, given that others have posted
about getting good performance with low profile cantilevers and road
levers.

Any tips? Should I give up and try another brand/model?

Salmon colored Kool Stop pads squeal. I had some 1991 Deore DX low
profile cantilever brakes operated with normal RSX brake only levers.
Those cantilever brakes always seemed hard to adjust and stay adjusted.
So I replaced them with some old Dia Compe non low profile cantilever
brakes. They stay adjusted without constant fiddling.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:46:38 +0100, Zog The Undeniable wrote:

Salmon pads make squeal more likely because of their high coefficient of
friction.

Try a ride in the rain before you blame the geometry. Often any noise
disappears once a bit of gritty water has bedded the pads in.

I find that Kool Stops like a shi'iteload of toe-in to avoid attracting
neighborhood cats.

Dave wrote:

I'm surprised that this is such a hassle, given that others have posted
about getting good performance with low profile cantilevers and road
levers.

Any tips? Should I give up and try another brand/model?

Sheldon Brown has a great page about setting up cantilevers to work
with almost any brake lever,
Phil Brown

wrote in message
oups.com...
Dave wrote:
I have a cross bike with a pair of older DA 8-speed levers
and early
90's XT low profile cantilevers, and have been tearing my
hair out
trying to get the brakes set up properly.

I am trying to get the front brake to the point where I can
get the
back wheel to unload with moderate hand force without
squealing. With
the straddle set low, and the pads extended all the way out
on their
posts, I can get adequate braking leverage. But despite
changing to
salmon pads and putting teflon tape on the fixing bolts, I
get loud and
annoying squeal even with light presure on the brakes. I
rode the bike
this way for several weeks hoping the squeal would go away.
It didn't,
and now there are fretting marks on the posts and the
surfaces of the
brake arms where the fixing bolts attach.

If I move the pads in a few millimeters so they aren't
extended as far
from the arms, the squealing disappears but so does my
leverage. I
can't get the back wheel to lift even if I pull the lever as
hard as I
can.

I'm surprised that this is such a hassle, given that others
have posted
about getting good performance with low profile cantilevers
and road
levers.

Any tips? Should I give up and try another brand/model?

Salmon colored Kool Stop pads squeal. I had some 1991 Deore DX
low
profile cantilever brakes operated with normal RSX brake only
levers.
Those cantilever brakes always seemed hard to adjust and stay
adjusted.
So I replaced them with some old Dia Compe non low profile
cantilever
brakes. They stay adjusted without constant fiddling.

They also do not work well with STI, no matter how well adjusted.
I have been fiddling with a pair for years (including over-sized
stradle). I am going to replace them with Paul Neo Retros, at
least in the front. -- Jay Beattie.

"Dave" wrote:

I have a cross bike with a pair of older DA 8-speed levers and early
90's XT low profile cantilevers, and have been tearing my hair out
trying to get the brakes set up properly.snip
Any tips? Should I give up and try another brand/model?

Some good advice from others.. I just did an experiment on my own
'cross bike. I had suffered from some brake squeal using various
cantis, pads and forks - not horrible, but annoying enough to want to
do something about it.

What I did was to install a set of (cheap!) Tektro 926AL Mini-V brakes
(obstensibly designed for BMX bikes). Even with the not-too-exotic
pads, they work better than any of the cantis, and don't squeal a bit.
The mechanical advantage seems to be on par with the low-profile
cantis, and the setup is a breeze. I believe that the real
improvement came from eliminating the cable hanger, which was probably
flexing under hard braking. I'm running 35mm tires, and have
clearance to spare, too.

I will toss on a set of upgraded Kool-Stop pads once the Tektro units
wear down or start to harden - and will probably get even better
performance.

Certainly one of the better el cheapo mods I've made on my own bike
lately.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

do these tektro brakes require a cable travel adjuster with STI levers
as do other v-brakes? Thanks.

cliff

"cliff" wrote:

do these tektro brakes require a cable travel adjuster with STI levers
as do other v-brakes? Thanks.

Nope. They're much shorter than a "normal" V-brake, so they don't
require as much cable pull. Using a Campy Ergo brake lever, the front
brake works well - good modulation, and doesn't require a lot of
force.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mark Hickey wrote:
"Dave" wrote:

I have a cross bike with a pair of older DA 8-speed levers and early
90's XT low profile cantilevers, and have been tearing my hair out
trying to get the brakes set up properly.snip
Any tips? Should I give up and try another brand/model?

Some good advice from others.. I just did an experiment on my own
'cross bike. I had suffered from some brake squeal using various
cantis, pads and forks - not horrible, but annoying enough to want to
do something about it.

What I did was to install a set of (cheap!) Tektro 926AL Mini-V brakes
(obstensibly designed for BMX bikes). Even with the not-too-exotic
pads, they work better than any of the cantis, and don't squeal a bit.
The mechanical advantage seems to be on par with the low-profile
cantis, and the setup is a breeze. I believe that the real
improvement came from eliminating the cable hanger, which was probably
flexing under hard braking. I'm running 35mm tires, and have
clearance to spare, too.

I will toss on a set of upgraded Kool-Stop pads once the Tektro units
wear down or start to harden - and will probably get even better
performance.

Certainly one of the better el cheapo mods I've made on my own bike
lately.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Hey that sounds like a promising solution. Do you think it'd be
possible to run those brakes with 42mm tires?