ultegra octalink: tick Tick TICK TICK TICK!

dianne_1234 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 16:41:01 -0600, A Muzi
wrote:


I can't resolve all this but I can say that after a _very_
long and heated discussion here in 1974, we concluded that
any lubricant at all ('wipe with oily finger' being the
expression that started our inquiry) is the same as any
other lube method. Just as Jobst wrote.


I'm not so sure they're the same. Greased or wiped may not make an
important difference in failure rates in the field, but that old test
suggests there is some measurable difference in spindle engagement.


Even slathering a 'toothpaste ad' sized glob of grease
leaves no more lubricant on the face after torque than a
wipe with anything slightly oily.


Regardless of what lubricant is left on the face after torque, the
greased cranks were measured to slide on farther. I'm curious about
that.

With your experience, what do you make of that old test? Did the
experimenter compare the two conditions you just mentioned?
"slathering a 'toothpaste ad' sized glob of grease" vs.
"wipe with anything slightly oily"?

check this out: factory greased bb - kindly hosted by carl.

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/d...reased_bb.jpeg

H. Guy wrote:
when i built up my last bike, i needed a triple. stop
snickering. i just needed a triple, that's all. and
campy had two alternatives: ugly and expensive, so i went
with shimano for the first time in around a decade and a
half. at first, all was wonderful, but within six months
(let's say 3,000 miles or so) the right crankarm started
ticking against the octalink spindle. so i did the kind of
things i normally would do: pull it off, clean it, rotate
it 90 (or in this case) 45 degrees, etc. and i still came
out with TICK TICK TICK everytime my pedals came round.

and NO, it isn't the pedals, and it isn't the cleat.

If the click is always when the crank hits a certain position, try
tightening the cassette lockring. I had a "crank click" that turned out
to be a tiny bit of side-to-side play in the cassette/hub interface.
The click would happen with the crank either straight up or straight
down, can't recall.

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:24:01 -0600, Tom Sherman
may have said:

wrote:
Zog who? writes:
...
The problem I had, before I started using grease, was that corrosion
welded the crank to the spindle. In the worst case the crank puller
stripped its threads despite being fully engaged, a gear puller made
no impression and in the end I had to remove the crank complete with
the BB and throw both of them away.


That scenario is not possible. This is a dynamic joint for all by the
most Milquetoast riders and no permanent contact can occur, nor can
the contact surface rust and become mechanically interlocked....

Even on a bicycle with steel cranks that has not been used for quite
some time?

That's not welding, that's the creation of a high-friction
interference fit by local expansion of the material concurrent with
the formation of a pitted surface under it. It may act like it's
welded together, but when you shatter enough of the oxide to allow it
to come apart, it becomes obvious that the metals were no longer in
direct contact with one another.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:22:35 GMT, may
have said:

I haven't
seen a steel square taper crank since 1960...

Pacific used some in the late 80s, and possibly up into the early 90s.
I doubt that you would have encountered them; they were on low-end
mass-market mountain bikes for the most part. I still see a set once
in a while.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:24:01 -0600, Tom Sherman
may have said:


wrote:

Zog who? writes:
...

The problem I had, before I started using grease, was that corrosion
welded the crank to the spindle. In the worst case the crank puller
stripped its threads despite being fully engaged, a gear puller made
no impression and in the end I had to remove the crank complete with
the BB and throw both of them away.


That scenario is not possible. This is a dynamic joint for all by the
most Milquetoast riders and no permanent contact can occur, nor can
the contact surface rust and become mechanically interlocked....

Even on a bicycle with steel cranks that has not been used for quite
some time?


That's not welding, that's the creation of a high-friction
interference fit by local expansion of the material concurrent with
the formation of a pitted surface under it. It may act like it's
welded together, but when you shatter enough of the oxide to allow it
to come apart, it becomes obvious that the metals were no longer in
direct contact with one another.

I was referring to the possibility of significant interlock caused by
corrosion products at the interface, not actual welding which will only
occur over a very small portion of the "gross" contact area.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth

Tom Sherman writes:

The problem I had, before I started using grease, was that
corrosion welded the crank to the spindle. In the worst case
the crank puller stripped its threads despite being fully
engaged, a gear puller made no impression and in the end I had
to remove the crank complete with the BB and throw both of them
away.

That scenario is not possible. This is a dynamic joint for all
by the most Milquetoast riders and no permanent contact can
occur, nor can the contact surface rust and become mechanically
interlocked...

Even on a bicycle with steel cranks that has not been used for
quite some time?

That's not welding, that's the creation of a high-friction
interference fit by local expansion of the material concurrent with
the formation of a pitted surface under it. It may act like it's
welded together, but when you shatter enough of the oxide to allow
it to come apart, it becomes obvious that the metals were no longer
in direct contact with one another.

I was referring to the possibility of significant interlock caused
by corrosion products at the interface, not actual welding which
will only occur over a very small portion of the "gross" contact
area.

Rust is not a strong bond in such an application because its faces are
press fit together such that moisture intrusion and oxidation could
not get developed, and if it did and were re-assembled that way, the
rust would come out like peanut butter from the interface. This is
not a rusty joint scenario. That would first require a loose fit for
there to be rust growth. That rules the stuck crank scenario as well.

Jobst Brandt

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:22:35 GMT, :
I haven't
seen a steel square taper crank since 1960...

Werehatrack wrote:
Pacific used some in the late 80s, and possibly up into the early 90s.
I doubt that you would have encountered them; they were on low-end
mass-market mountain bikes for the most part. I still see a set once
in a while.

Yes, still current on Next and other XMart bikes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:53:13 -0600, Tom Sherman
may have said:

Werehatrack wrote:

That's not welding, that's the creation of a high-friction
interference fit by local expansion of the material concurrent with
the formation of a pitted surface under it. It may act like it's
welded together, but when you shatter enough of the oxide to allow it
to come apart, it becomes obvious that the metals were no longer in
direct contact with one another.

I was referring to the possibility of significant interlock caused by
corrosion products at the interface, not actual welding which will only
occur over a very small portion of the "gross" contact area.

If the surfaces are actually in close contact evenly, then Jobst's
assertion that surface corrosion at the interface won't occur is
well-founded, but for some of the less elegantly machined equipment
that I've been graced with, the opportunity has apparently been
present for corrosion to grow there. Of course, a bike that's been
left outdoors in Galveston (which is where the subject unit
originated) is likely to have all manner of interesting kinds of
corrosion damage, and this one was hardly an exception.

It wasn't as crufty and wedged as the old cottered-crank beater that
was dropped off with it, though. Now *there* was a rustbucket. IIRC,
I salvaged one tire and one pair of axle cones from that bike. The
rest of it was essentially rotten.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:24:38 GMT
wrote:

Stripping extractor threads is
also not possible unless the extractor is not screwed in fully.

Or the washer under the bolt head was left in there.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:22:35 GMT
wrote:

How do you strip out extractor threads in a steel crank. I haven't
seen a steel square taper crank since 1960...

There was the Campy steel 3-pin, forget the name, that came out in the
mid 70s for a short time.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------