Why Is the Supply of IDIOT Mountain Bikers ENDLESS?????

On May 8, 5:28*pm, Bill Weir wrote:
On May 8, 1:10*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:

You should be HELPING
me, not tilting at windmills like the typical mountain bikers such as
the one whose email started this thread.

I cannot help or support someone who is selfish and has no true
concern for the environment. Let me know when you cease using
commercial airlines and then I'll help you, until then you're just
another attention seeker.

Now that isn't fair either. It is abundantly clear that Mike cares a
great deal about the environment, whether you agree with his methods
or not. Despite an occasional flight on an aircraft - which would
probably be making the flight anyway - the majority of his life is
dedicated to doing environmental good. It is not fair to expect
perfection when perfection isn't possible. I am an environmentalist,
but I have a car, I wear clothing, I live in a house, and so I'm not
perfect, nor can I be - but I do work for more and better wilderness,
increased respect for wildlife and their habitat, more sustainability
in my community, population stabilization and reduction, I am a
vegetarian and eat as low on the food chain as possible, and a number
of other things too.

Saying that someone who has a few small "chinks in the armor" is a
fraud, is disingenuous and throwing the baby out with bathwater. I am
not saying this is the case with you, Bill, but it is especially so
when the people doing the "throwing" usually are gross abusers trying
to draw attention away from their own far more severe transgressions,
a tactic unfortunately common among today's right wing. It is a red
herring, a distraction, and ultimately fails both the logic and
balance tests.

Bruce Jensen

In article ,
Mike Vandeman says...

On May 8, 5:28=A0pm, Bill Weir wrote:
On May 8, 1:10=A0am, Mike Vandeman wrote:

You should be HELPING
me, not tilting at windmills like the typical mountain bikers such as
the one whose email started this thread.

I cannot help or support someone who is selfish and has no true
concern for the environment. Let me know when you cease using
commercial airlines and then I'll help you, until then you're just
another attention seeker.

1. You have never proven that I have used commercial airlines.

2. You deliberately ignored the fact that most environmental
conferences buy carbon credits that cancel the impacts of
people who fly.

Ah, the old "It wasn't rape, I paid the pimp." defensive ploy.
Very good Mike, you're learning.

On May 7, 2:50*pm, Bill Weir wrote:


Does Michael Vandeman use commercial air travel when other options are
available? The question is an important one due to the fact that air
travel is very destructive to the environment

Ø Not at all true
Commercial air travel does not use roads, nor does it
interfere with wildlife and its habitat. Also commercial air
travel emits a pitiful portion of the 2% of man-made CO2
emissions.

and should not be used
by someone who claims they are concerned with wildlife and their
habitat.

Ø Weir - you appear to be about as ignorant as possible
about wildlife conservation. You will not learn anything
from the so called environmentalists, they are just a
bunch of hustlers living high on your dues.

— —
| In real science the burden of proof is always
| on the proposer, never on the skeptics. So far
| neither IPCC nor anyone else has provided one
| iota of valid data for global warming nor have
| they provided data that climate change is being
| effected by commerce and industry, and not by
| natural causes

On Sun, 9 May 2010 12:01:56 -0700 (PDT), Last Post
wrote:

On May 7, 2:50*pm, Bill Weir wrote:


Does Michael Vandeman use commercial air travel when other options are
available? The question is an important one due to the fact that air
travel is very destructive to the environment

Ø Not at all true
Commercial air travel does not use roads, nor does it
interfere with wildlife and its habitat. Also commercial air
travel emits a pitiful portion of the 2% of man-made CO2
emissions.
...

That is simply sheer fabrication. There used to be vast herds of
Florida reindeer that regularly darkened the skies when they would
migrate. They were scared away by commercial aviation, when airports
were constructed in Tampa, Orlando, places like that. The noble
Florida reindeer, one of the very few mammals that can truly fly, is
seldom, if ever, seen now. In fact, so rare are they now that most
modern books don't even acknowledge their existence. Besides, what
we've done in the Gulf is quite likely going to make arguing about
"greenhouse gasses" sort of like arguing about the arrangement of the
deck chairs on the Titanic, to further strain an already overworked
analogy.

On May 9, 12:56*pm, Bruce Jensen wrote:
On May 8, 5:28*pm, Bill Weir wrote:

On May 8, 1:10*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:

You should be HELPING
me, not tilting at windmills like the typical mountain bikers such as
the one whose email started this thread.

I cannot help or support someone who is selfish and has no true
concern for the environment. Let me know when you cease using
commercial airlines and then I'll help you, until then you're just
another attention seeker.

Now that isn't fair either. *It is abundantly clear that Mike cares a
great deal about the environment, whether you agree with his methods
or not. *Despite an occasional flight on an aircraft - which would
probably be making the flight anyway - the majority of his life is
dedicated to doing environmental good. *

No, the majority of his life is rants against mountain-biking. Where
is his opposition to off shore drilling? Mountain top mining? Strip
mining? I've read many of Mike's LTE's and no matter what the subject,
he reverts to complaining about mountain-bikes. That's not an
environmentalist, it's just someone with a huge chip on their
shoulder.


It is not fair to expect
perfection when perfection isn't possible. *I am an environmentalist,
but I have a car, I wear clothing, I live in a house, and so I'm not
perfect, nor can I be - but I do work for more and better wilderness,
increased respect for wildlife and their habitat, more sustainability
in my community, population stabilization and reduction, *I am a
vegetarian and eat as low on the food chain as possible, and a number
of other things too.

Saying that someone who has a few small "chinks in the armor" is a
fraud, is disingenuous and throwing the baby out with bathwater. *I am
not saying this is the case with you, Bill, but it is especially so
when the people doing the "throwing" usually are gross abusers trying
to draw attention away from their own far more severe transgressions,
a tactic unfortunately common among today's right wing. *It is a red
herring, a distraction, and ultimately fails both the logic and
balance tests.

Kind of like what Michael does when someone has simply rode a mountain
bike, even if they have never been off road.

Gross abuses are occuring at far more frequent rates and doing far
more damage than all the mountain bikes put together will ever do. I
have yet to see Michael Vandeman speak out against any of them.

In article ,
Last Post says...

On May 7, 2:50=A0pm, Bill Weir wrote:


Does Michael Vandeman use commercial air travel when other options are
available? The question is an important one due to the fact that air
travel is very destructive to the environment

Not at all true
Commercial air travel does not use roads, nor does it
interfere with wildlife and its habitat.

You forgot about the road systems and parking lots built to serve the airports.
You also forgot about the habitat damage done by the building of airports.

And let's not forget about bird strikes...

If my information is correct, the seagull's union is striking SeaTac Airport
near Seattle as we speak. :-)

Also commercial air travel emits a pitiful portion of
the 2% of man-made CO2 emissions.

I'm curious, what's your source for that assertion?

Does it include the CO2 generated by the motor vehicles geting to and from the
airports; and that generated by machinery servicing the airport, and keeping the
facilities cool and warm?

and should not be used
by someone who claims they are concerned with wildlife and their
habitat.

=D8 Weir - you appear to be about as ignorant as possible
about wildlife conservation. You will not learn anything
from the so called environmentalists, they are just a
bunch of hustlers living high on your dues.

=97 =97
| In real science the burden of proof is always
| on the proposer, never on the skeptics. So far
| neither IPCC nor anyone else has provided one
| iota of valid data for global warming nor have
| they provided data that climate change is being
| effected by commerce and industry, and not by
| natural causes

On May 9, 4:53*pm, Bill Weir wrote:
On May 9, 12:56*pm, Bruce Jensen wrote:





On May 8, 5:28*pm, Bill Weir wrote:

On May 8, 1:10*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:

You should be HELPING
me, not tilting at windmills like the typical mountain bikers such as
the one whose email started this thread.

I cannot help or support someone who is selfish and has no true
concern for the environment. Let me know when you cease using
commercial airlines and then I'll help you, until then you're just
another attention seeker.

Now that isn't fair either. *It is abundantly clear that Mike cares a
great deal about the environment, whether you agree with his methods
or not. *Despite an occasional flight on an aircraft - which would
probably be making the flight anyway - the majority of his life is
dedicated to doing environmental good. *

No, the majority of his life is rants against mountain-biking. Where
is his opposition to off shore drilling? Mountain top mining? Strip
mining? I've read many of Mike's LTE's and no matter what the subject,
he reverts to complaining about mountain-bikes. That's not an
environmentalist, it's just someone with a huge chip on their
shoulder.





It is not fair to expect
perfection when perfection isn't possible. *I am an environmentalist,
but I have a car, I wear clothing, I live in a house, and so I'm not
perfect, nor can I be - but I do work for more and better wilderness,
increased respect for wildlife and their habitat, more sustainability
in my community, population stabilization and reduction, *I am a
vegetarian and eat as low on the food chain as possible, and a number
of other things too.

Saying that someone who has a few small "chinks in the armor" is a
fraud, is disingenuous and throwing the baby out with bathwater. *I am
not saying this is the case with you, Bill, but it is especially so
when the people doing the "throwing" usually are gross abusers trying
to draw attention away from their own far more severe transgressions,
a tactic unfortunately common among today's right wing. *It is a red
herring, a distraction, and ultimately fails both the logic and
balance tests.

Kind of like what Michael does when someone has simply rode a mountain
bike, even if they have never been off road.

Gross abuses are occuring at far more frequent rates and doing far
more damage than all the mountain bikes put together will ever do. *I
have yet to see Michael Vandeman speak out against any of them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why should I, when there are plenty of people already doing it, and
too few people working on protecting parks and wildlife from the
scourge of mountain biking? You are just trying again to divert
attention away from your friends the mountain bikers. It is an
obvious, dishonest ploy.

"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
news:e24017e0-14eb-4308-b84c-

Your [You're] a [an] asshole! Get a life, and a mountain bike!

We've covered this before. There only appears to be an endless supply
because by your own postings there are 50 million gearsets built by
Shimano. The endless supply of crap is what YOU manage to come up with.
Seriously, there is only one of you, yet you post the same supply of
endless drivel over and over again. And, you don't even have courtesy of
trimming the headers!

We have to be constantly at the gates to guard against all the idiot
mountain bikers who proliferate worse than rabbits. Furthermore, repetition
is at the heart of all learning.

I think the reason that Mr. Vandeman does not do any trimming is because of
the contempt that he feels for you. Please note that I do trim even though
my contempt for you is even worse than his.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On May 10, 12:29*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On May 9, 4:53*pm, Bill Weir wrote:





On May 9, 12:56*pm, Bruce Jensen wrote:

On May 8, 5:28*pm, Bill Weir wrote:

On May 8, 1:10*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:

You should be HELPING
me, not tilting at windmills like the typical mountain bikers such as
the one whose email started this thread.

I cannot help or support someone who is selfish and has no true
concern for the environment. Let me know when you cease using
commercial airlines and then I'll help you, until then you're just
another attention seeker.

Now that isn't fair either. *It is abundantly clear that Mike cares a
great deal about the environment, whether you agree with his methods
or not. *Despite an occasional flight on an aircraft - which would
probably be making the flight anyway - the majority of his life is
dedicated to doing environmental good. *

No, the majority of his life is rants against mountain-biking. Where
is his opposition to off shore drilling? Mountain top mining? Strip
mining? I've read many of Mike's LTE's and no matter what the subject,
he reverts to complaining about mountain-bikes. That's not an
environmentalist, it's just someone with a huge chip on their
shoulder.

It is not fair to expect
perfection when perfection isn't possible. *I am an environmentalist,
but I have a car, I wear clothing, I live in a house, and so I'm not
perfect, nor can I be - but I do work for more and better wilderness,
increased respect for wildlife and their habitat, more sustainability
in my community, population stabilization and reduction, *I am a
vegetarian and eat as low on the food chain as possible, and a number
of other things too.

Saying that someone who has a few small "chinks in the armor" is a
fraud, is disingenuous and throwing the baby out with bathwater. *I am
not saying this is the case with you, Bill, but it is especially so
when the people doing the "throwing" usually are gross abusers trying
to draw attention away from their own far more severe transgressions,
a tactic unfortunately common among today's right wing. *It is a red
herring, a distraction, and ultimately fails both the logic and
balance tests.

Kind of like what Michael does when someone has simply rode a mountain
bike, even if they have never been off road.

Gross abuses are occuring at far more frequent rates and doing far
more damage than all the mountain bikes put together will ever do. *I
have yet to see Michael Vandeman speak out against any of them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why should I, when there are plenty of people already doing it, and
too few people working on protecting parks and wildlife from the
scourge of mountain biking? You are just trying again to divert
attention away from your friends the mountain bikers. It is an
obvious, dishonest ploy.- Hide quoted text -

Who are my mountain-biking friends? You're making assumptions based on
nothing more than your own prejudices. This is why your "science" is
flawed and often incorrect.

On May 9, 3:01*pm, Last Post wrote:
On May 7, 2:50*pm, Bill Weir wrote:



Does Michael Vandeman use commercial air travel when other options are
available? The question is an important one due to the fact that air
travel is very destructive to the environment

Ø Not at all true
* * Commercial air travel does not use roads, nor does it
* * interfere with wildlife and its habitat. Also commercial air
* * travel emits a pitiful portion of the 2% of man-made CO2
* * emissions.

and should not be used
by someone who claims they are concerned with wildlife and their
habitat.

Ø Weir - you appear to be about as ignorant as possible
* * about wildlife conservation. You will not learn anything
* * from the so called environmentalists, they are just a
* * bunch of hustlers living high on your dues.

This isn't about Michael Vandeman flying somewhere, it's about Michael
Vandeman condemning someone who flies while he does it himself.

(In regards to aircraft being essential for conservation, Michael
Vandeman wrote)

"BS. Not "essential", just "convenient" for people who don't care
about the environment. What do you think we did before the airplane
was
invented? Darwin did the most for wildlife, and never flew in an
airplane."

Why didn't Mike take his own advice and travel as Darwin did?