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#231
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Stronger rubber cement?
On 2017-01-18 17:36, Phil Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:01:41 -0800 the perfect time to write: On 2017-01-05 08:31, AMuzi wrote: On 1/5/2017 9:59 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-01-05 07:34, wrote: On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:47:35 PM UTC-8, Phil Lee wrote: Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan 2017 07:38:10 -0800 the perfect time to write: On 2017-01-04 01:19, Tosspot wrote: On 04/01/17 01:04, Joerg wrote: Gentlemen, Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple cheap small tubes are available. The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long. The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well. UK, but must be available all over http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acat...r-Patches.html Go up to 180mmx95mm and are less than a UKP per patch. Thanks! Time for a trip to the autoparts store since there is http://www.vipal-usa.com/repair_line_e.html Looks like a Brazilian company. The 30mm patches are 13 squids per 100! Surely, surely even Joerg can't get through that amount that fast! I hardly get flats but when I do they are hardcore. Typically caused by those notorious #%&^!! flimsy side walls of bicycle tires. Which is also why I am always on the lookout for tires with better side walls. For the MTB I found that Asian ones do better in that domain but haven't found any yet for the road bike. Will try CST, their Conquistare tires look promising but I could not find reviews. Heavier tires are generally better and finally those appeared for 29". For 700c it's still slim pickens. You do know that 29" ARE 700c, both using a bead seat diameter of 622mm? It's just that one description is used for MTB and the other for road use. I have been told that many times. But my CX bike feels absolutely NOTHING like the 29er did. On that the wheels felt massive and heavy. On the CX bike they are nothing of the sort. Phil should try to mount a 29" Intense Trail Taker tire or similar on a 700c road bike. Then it would quickly sink in why this will never work :-) Joerg, don't be ridiculous. Phil Lee was correct. Tires formally labeled as 29" are simply not available in 25mm. At least AFAICT. I know you struggle with the real world, and complex mathematical concepts like wheel diameters, but surely even YOU can add 2x 25mm to 622mm, and conclude that the result is less than 29"! Just in case, 672mm = 26.46, or in round figures, 26 1/2", so it's hardly surprising that it is not mislabeled as 29"! A 559mm 26x2.3 tire will mount on the rim but can't possibly fit inside the frame or fork of a Bridgestone CB1. So what? A perfectly common 700-35C touring tire won't clear in your road bike either. That unsuitably wide tires exist for any given rim diameter in any given frame doesn't make them different ISO sizes. There are a spectrum of widths for almost every ISO format, choice is good! Well, there aren't skinny 29" tires. The thing you need for compatibility is BEAD SEAT DIAMETER, which is 622mm for both the so-called 29" (which isn't really 29" except in 2.25" width, and even then only roughly), and so-called 700C (which again, isn't really 700mm in diameter in anything other than 39mm width either). The move from using overall diameter of a mounted and inflated tyre to the use of bead seat diameters, as approved by ISO and ETRTO is because it is only by using the bead seat diameter that you can tell which tyre fits which rim. And any 29", 700C, xx-622 will fit your rims, whatever width it may be. Of course, it may not be the ideal width for the rim, or too wide for the frame or forks, but it WILL mount on the rim. GET IT? The thing you need is the tire to _fit_ _through_ the chain stay. _No_ 29" tire does on my road bike. Get it now? I can only hope that you never have to deal with the complexities of the various 26" formats! p.s. A 700-18 ultralight tire would fit your road bike rim as well. For you, I'd suggest a wider tire. Yes, I had very narrow tires before and found that 25mm is better for where I now ride. 28mm would theoretically fit but only when the rear is very well trued which does not hold for long on my routes. I am also not very talented for trueing a wheel. Maybe that (along with your notable level of machinery abuse) is the real reason you insist that only disk brakes are worth using. They are vastly superior to rim brakes in rain, mud, sleet et cetera. Any MTB rider worth their salt knows this. Oh, they have a "minor" additional advantage: They do not eat rims. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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#232
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Stronger rubber cement?
On 1/19/2017 2:04 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-18 12:11, AMuzi wrote: On 1/18/2017 11:33 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-01-18 09:18, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 7:36:44 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2017-01-17 15:26, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote: analog, I will not explain tire mounting again. Retard at your own speed I have explained to you that these are _flat_ rims. Hard to understand? The Argent rim is just a Mod E2. Right? Mine are Mavic Module “3” Argent “D”. Almost flat inside. http://equusbicycle.com/bike/mavic/images/11and12.jpg Pretty standard rim of the era. Get VAR lever. It lifts the bead over the rim. Your problems will be solved. Getting another tire or rim will also solve your problems. Most people will not wrestle with a tire for a half-an-hour, at least not more than once. I have broken many high quality levers on those and bike shop owners have confirmed that issue. When they say "Good luck getting them on" you know what you are up to. The thick tubes I have do not exactly help in keeping the bead towards the center but I made myself Delrin pieces to do that. The relief that this provides is very limited though, as evidenced by the fact that even with thin tubes Gatorskins are really hard to mount onto these rims. Fact is, the Vredestein tires always went on with ease and the Gatorskin tires do not. Huge difference. However, the Vredesteins had too many flats. So, I am looking for a tire that is very puncture-resistant, has sturdy side walls _and_ is easy to mount. Eventually I will find one and then buy a stack of them. Just like I did for the MTB where I found three brands that work well. That's a known deficient design with hardly any drop between the bead seats and the center well. Not only those Mavic, but Trek copied it for some all-time-lousy rims under their Bontrager brand. Very hard to mount/remove tires; Joerg is not making that up. The weird phenomenon is that in the olden days all tires fit fine. All of them. I put north of 50k miles on that bike just in the 80's and used up rear tires as if they were popcorn. All kinds of brands but mostly Vredestein. The beads went on with ease, in minutes. Now some tires seem to be subpar in bead diameter tolerance. For example, Gatorskins take over an hour to wrestle them on (with breaks because the thumbs hurt so much). Once they have been on there for a while it becomes easier to take them off and put them back on. How much easier depends on the time they've been on the rim, not how many times they were mounted or how many miles were ridden. That seems to indicate that the beads stretch while on there. Sometimes things really were better in the good old days. I realized that again just now when re-working a wine fridge. The design and the workmanship was, in part, rather messed up. That somehow rarely happened in the 50's (we have a Bosch fridge from 1956, still running great). The good old days were sometimes but mostly not. Anyone who wrestled tires to seat on undersized steel rims all day long [1] will have a different view from yours. That process involves tedium, muscle and the occasional chunks of rubber in the eye after a loud bang. Sharp edges, swarf and slag from seam welds were very common when steel rims were the norm, in all brands. Even on good rims, oversized Pirelli and Carideng cotton tires blew off frequently. Then French bikes with spokes sticking through the nipples. I could go on. [1] I'm thinking here of several batches of off-spec Schwinn EA1 chromed rims. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#234
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Stronger rubber cement?
On 1/19/2017 2:16 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-18 17:36, Phil Lee wrote: Joerg considered Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:01:41 -0800 the perfect time to write: On 2017-01-05 08:31, AMuzi wrote: On 1/5/2017 9:59 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-01-05 07:34, wrote: On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:47:35 PM UTC-8, Phil Lee wrote: Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan 2017 07:38:10 -0800 the perfect time to write: On 2017-01-04 01:19, Tosspot wrote: On 04/01/17 01:04, Joerg wrote: Gentlemen, snip snip snip The thing you need is the tire to _fit_ _through_ the chain stay. _No_ 29" tire does on my road bike. Get it now? http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/brknaxle.jpg -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#235
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Stronger rubber cement?
On 2017-01-18 14:10, James wrote:
On 19/01/17 02:51, Joerg wrote: This is why I carry dextrose tablets in my first aid kit. So far I never needed one of those myself but others did. Wow. Dextrose tablets for others, but no chain breaker tool, instead preferring rocks and fencing wire to fix the broken chains. The reasoning is simple. Rocks and wire can easily be found in the wilderness. Dextrose tablets can't be. A friend and I once came upon a guy who had simply walked off the trail and dropped. After waking him which took a long time he was prety much catatonic. Luckily we noticed him. I don't know if he would have made the long trek out if we didn't have ample water and dextrose to pump into him. I guess it is more practical for me to be able to fix a chain and still be able to ride. I have never been so hunger flat that I cannot turn the pedals at all. Yeah, but you might come upon other people who are. If you never venture far into the wilderness you may never encounter that situation and are probably unaware of how dangerous it can be. No cell phone signal, no roads, no nothing, just the relentlessly scorching sun and lots of miles to get yourself and the victim out. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#236
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Fuel: was: Stronger rubber cement?
On 2017-01-18 19:28, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:11:50 -0800, Joerg wrote: Got it only in German but if really interested I could translate it: http://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/14555...sliriegel.html I was rather surprised that I could read that. For example, knowing the history of the haversack told me at once that "haferfloken" are rolled oats. Knowing for sure that the extraneous parts were extraneous took some dictionary work, though. That's a situation I often encounter during my job when a technical document comes in and it's in Portuguese or some other language that I do not know well. It's a little more work than it looks like, with the bacon and all that, and cutting into bars at the end so they can be packed on a bicycle. I think that I could substitute Aldi's bacon bits for finely-gewrfelt bacon; "Speck ausbraten ohne Fett" appears to say that one should fry all the fat out. The site does not render well anymore on my PC. But yes, my wife fries thick bacon cut in little cubes until the fat is gone. Otherwise I'd soon have a bunch of mountain lions trailing me :-) My wife puts all of them into the freezer and then moves as many as needed to the fridge a couple days before rides. Back when I made high-calorie muffins (one cup each of raisins, sunflower seed, self-rising mixed edible powder, and sweet liquid), I put them into my pannier still frozen, so that they would stay fresh longer. I don't think that I used them on cold days, since I wanted to stop inside warm places as often as possible. Also, I rode down into the cities instead of up into the boonies in the winter. I also ride down into the valley a lot, where the cities are. While I usually drop by at a brewpub on the way back I have my meal break somewhere along a pristine bike path or singletrack, out in the wilderness. No man-made noises except occasional an aircraft. It took me years, maybe decades, to figure out that I could cut them into bars after baking if I spread the dough on a cookie sheet (technically a jelly-roll pan). Cutting into bars is nothing compared to filling eighteen muffin cups. We use a regular large kitchen knife and they don't crumble. I tried baking the dough in a square pan and slicing the cake, but the slices fell into crumbs. I don't know how long it took me to realize that all they needed was more crust. My wife uses one extra egg in the recipe which makes it all stick together better. The bars don't even come apart on very rough MTB rides where the stuff in the panniers sloshes round and round (it all literally does rotate around in there). But these days I mostly eat Aldi's "protein bars" -- more like Rice Krispies Treats, if you remember that fad, but denser and not sticky. I've gotten into the habit of carrying more food than I intend to eat, and I'm glad of it several times a year. We have no Aldi in the California Sierra but I remember those stores from Europe. Since I now *start* inside the city, I usually plan to buy food along the way, and seldom intend to eat *any* of what's in my pannier. Store-bought bars have the overwhelming advantage that left-overs can be saved for the next trip even if it's a week off. I forgot to bring spare food once, and said, no sweat, I'll buy a package of bars at Owen's West. After circling the store several times, I realized that there is a good reason that I always buy my food bars at Aldi. (This was before Breakfast Biscuits appeared, and even those require a little cream cheese.) Just as I despaired of finding anything edible, I noticed a store employee re-arranging the bananas. Duh! If you can get fruit, all the better. I usually can't, on account of no stores being found along singletrack. When heading west on the El Dorado Trail I pack baby carrots but they are almost all for Ivan the horse. Got permission from the owner. The deal with Ivan is that he gets to eat 25, I get two or three. After all, he is much bigger. Now that I started brewing beer again I am planning on changing back to bread for bike rides. The trub that is the very nutricious residue after racking off the beer from the primary fermenter is just dumped by most brewers. Sad. Not here, we use it and make this bread: http://hubpages.com/food/SALLIEANNES...sing-Beer-Trub Ours deviates in that we keep the dough on the hard side. I use an electric drill with a kneading hook to mix it (after smoking out numerous kitchen mixers in the past) and then bake it on a steel plate in the regular Weber Kettle barbecue. Mostly over almond wood fire burned down to the coals which results in a dark thick and crunchy crust. Lots of hop flavor in the bread. That with chease and cold cuts is an excellent meal on a bike ride. I don't use butter or margarine. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#237
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Stronger rubber cement?
On 1/18/2017 5:45 PM, jbeattie wrote:
With that said, I have spent an inordinate amount of time trying to get my studs to bead. Getting them on the rim is no problem at all, I just have to beat on them to get them to seat properly. But then the whole act of snow riding around here is an act of self-abuse, so beating on the tires is just kind of a warm-up. But I will not endure that sort of abuse just mounting an every-day tires. Studded Nokian Hakkapeliittas (700x32-5ish) seat really easily, wear long, and have great grip. I broke down and bought a set a few years back and have never regretted it; life is too short to ride crappy tires. Mark J., 50 miles south of you (where ice is less frequent, and the commute is flat.) |
#238
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Stronger rubber cement?
On 2017-01-19 12:25, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/19/2017 2:04 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-01-18 12:11, AMuzi wrote: On 1/18/2017 11:33 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-01-18 09:18, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 7:36:44 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2017-01-17 15:26, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote: analog, I will not explain tire mounting again. Retard at your own speed I have explained to you that these are _flat_ rims. Hard to understand? The Argent rim is just a Mod E2. Right? Mine are Mavic Module “3” Argent “D”. Almost flat inside. http://equusbicycle.com/bike/mavic/images/11and12.jpg Pretty standard rim of the era. Get VAR lever. It lifts the bead over the rim. Your problems will be solved. Getting another tire or rim will also solve your problems. Most people will not wrestle with a tire for a half-an-hour, at least not more than once. I have broken many high quality levers on those and bike shop owners have confirmed that issue. When they say "Good luck getting them on" you know what you are up to. The thick tubes I have do not exactly help in keeping the bead towards the center but I made myself Delrin pieces to do that. The relief that this provides is very limited though, as evidenced by the fact that even with thin tubes Gatorskins are really hard to mount onto these rims. Fact is, the Vredestein tires always went on with ease and the Gatorskin tires do not. Huge difference. However, the Vredesteins had too many flats. So, I am looking for a tire that is very puncture-resistant, has sturdy side walls _and_ is easy to mount. Eventually I will find one and then buy a stack of them. Just like I did for the MTB where I found three brands that work well. That's a known deficient design with hardly any drop between the bead seats and the center well. Not only those Mavic, but Trek copied it for some all-time-lousy rims under their Bontrager brand. Very hard to mount/remove tires; Joerg is not making that up. The weird phenomenon is that in the olden days all tires fit fine. All of them. I put north of 50k miles on that bike just in the 80's and used up rear tires as if they were popcorn. All kinds of brands but mostly Vredestein. The beads went on with ease, in minutes. Now some tires seem to be subpar in bead diameter tolerance. For example, Gatorskins take over an hour to wrestle them on (with breaks because the thumbs hurt so much). Once they have been on there for a while it becomes easier to take them off and put them back on. How much easier depends on the time they've been on the rim, not how many times they were mounted or how many miles were ridden. That seems to indicate that the beads stretch while on there. Sometimes things really were better in the good old days. I realized that again just now when re-working a wine fridge. The design and the workmanship was, in part, rather messed up. That somehow rarely happened in the 50's (we have a Bosch fridge from 1956, still running great). The good old days were sometimes but mostly not. Anyone who wrestled tires to seat on undersized steel rims all day long [1] will have a different view from yours. That process involves tedium, muscle and the occasional chunks of rubber in the eye after a loud bang. Sharp edges, swarf and slag from seam welds were very common when steel rims were the norm, in all brands. Even on good rims, oversized Pirelli and Carideng cotton tires blew off frequently. Then French bikes with spokes sticking through the nipples. I could go on. [1] I'm thinking here of several batches of off-spec Schwinn EA1 chromed rims. That sounds horrid. I must have been very lucky while living in Europe. My current and back then expensive custom bike was only used for longhaul rides and only if the theft risk was low. Meaning never for rides into Aachen, Maastricht or other large cities. For that, regular commutes and also my whole time at highschool I used "beater bikes". Cheap department store road bikes, steel rims, none of them of a value when new than what around $150 would nowadays buy. Yet I never had any issues with tires and rims. I generally use the cheapest tires I could find in order not to cause a dent in more important budgets such as the ones for dates and for beer. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#239
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Stronger rubber cement?
On 1/19/2017 3:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/19/2017 2:16 PM, Joerg wrote: snip snip snip The thing you need is the tire to _fit_ _through_ the chain stay. _No_ 29" tire does on my road bike. Get it now? http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/brknaxle.jpg On one tour, we stayed at a Warm Showers host who had a bike identical to my Cannondale tourer. He showed me the frame, hanging in his garage. That place was completely worn through on both chainstays. He had done a long tour (Illinois to New Mexico, IIRC) that involved lots of gravel roads, probably with extra wide tires. The road grit eventually ground a big hole in each chainstay. Interestingly, he said the holes were there for about half the tour, and didn't seem to affect the ride at all. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#240
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Stronger rubber cement?
On 2017-01-17 17:51, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 10:27:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 1/16/2017 11:10 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 10:28:41 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote: Joerg wrote: :Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal". Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for the most part. Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my MTB tires are. A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about 250lbs. -- Jay Beattie. I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to pedal power and the engine removed. I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg does. According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two factors allowed them to survive as a business: 1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time. 2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store that sold their bikes was less than helpful. Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb -- Jay Beattie. Read Joerg's post from over the years and you'll see that Joerg takes great delight in complaining. Joerg does not want/need a bicycle - he needs/wants a pedal powered motorcycle. For his bicycle he should just buy solid rubber tires and be done with every needing to fix a flat or pump them up. Seriously, Joerg, why are you _not_ using solid tires? (I mean, except for the general principle that nothing ever works for Joerg.) Yes, they would be heavy and slow, but you've said dozens of times that you don't care about that. They would be rugged and thorn proof. The sidewalls would never blow out. Is it because you'd have to stop typing your sound effects? ("Kabloooeeee!") After the "Ka pow" post I got to thinking. I've never seen a tire sidewall fail except when the tire was run with no, or very low, pressure. It is fairly common on large trucks. One tire of a dual tire set gets a leak and runs flat for a while and the heat build up causes the tire to nearly disintegrate. My wife had one a while ago. Never checks her tires and set off on a 300 Km trip on a high speed highway with "soft" tires. Ka pow! On road bikes it usually happens when hitting a rock "just so". Like when the rock gets under the tire off center and flies off to the side with gusto. Or when going through a lot of gravel. On the MTB it can happen at any time during gnarly trail sections. The other side wall wearing effect is mud. The tire begins to load up with that and eventually a huge clump cakes around the BB area and sometimes under the crown of the fork. Later things start to grind ... phssseeeeeeeee ... now what on earth is that noise? Oh! The last Gatorskin had threads many inches long flopping about off a side wall. This was different decades ago. I sometimes had a dynamo that was frozen up but I kept riding because I thought it was just another bulb burn-out. Until I noticed the noise and that there was a rubbing chunk of frozen slush instead of a turning knurled roller. Yet no kaboom. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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