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Does MUni impact the trail more than MTB?



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 10th 09, 02:56 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
john_childs
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Default Does MUni impact the trail more than MTB?


harper;1167793 wrote:
If staying on the trail applies to riding skinnies our group effort at
etiquette leaves a great deal to be desired.




That rule does not apply to urban Coker rides.


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  #12  
Old January 10th 09, 01:29 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
rolandisimo
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Default Does MUni impact the trail more than MTB?


The 1-axle thing might increase our theoretical damage, but I think the
slower speed thing makes it actually much less.

As others have mentioned, cycle damage to trails is often just a
yelling point used by other groups who don't like mountain bikes on
trails because they go so fast and can more easily run into hikers or
spook horses. Since unis go slower, and more interesting to watch, I
expect anti-cycle-folks shouldn't be as hostile towards us.
-ro


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  #13  
Old January 10th 09, 04:13 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
harper
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Default Does MUni impact the trail more than MTB?


rolandisimo;1167929 wrote:
Since unis go slower, and more interesting to watch, I expect
anti-cycle-folks shouldn't be as hostile towards us.




No one should be hostile toward us. We're better than other people.
We're clowns.


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  #14  
Old January 10th 09, 08:06 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Naomi
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Default Does MUni impact the trail more than MTB?


harper;1167585 wrote:
Road damage is proportional to the 4th power of the axle load. A MUni
has one axle, a bike has two. If the MUni and the bike weigh the same,
and the riders weigh the same, the MUni will do 16 times the damage to
the trail that the MTB does.





Assuming that road damage is indeed a 4th power function ( care to
explain why?) ...should that not therefore be 8 times the damage?
Each MTB wheel causing 1/16th the damage?

Nao.


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  #15  
Old January 10th 09, 09:00 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
joemarshall
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Default Does MUni impact the trail more than MTB?


This kind of stuff is really interesting coming from over here in the
UK. Most of our trails are just bridleways, originally old tracks for
people to get places on horses, or walking. Because of them being for
transport as well as just fun places to ride, it'd be ridiculous to
close them in the wet (not to mention that not riding for 3 days after
rain would mean not riding for 6 months of the year). Some trails aren't
worth riding in the wet, because they get super muddy, but that's just a
choice thing. Some trails get a bit damaged, and need to be fixed, but
if they become not so fun, people just go ride somewhere else.

Part of the thing is that because there's so many trails compared to
many other countries (in England and Wales there's something like 40,000
miles of legally rideable trails, 140,000 miles of legally walkable but
often rideable trails) that people are spread out a lot.

The purpose built trails here are designed for all year riding, there's
a lot of work into drainage.

Interestingly, one of our local areas now has a designated 'casual
riding area', in which making of random trails, riding off the trail
etc. is officially allowed. It does change shape a bit every year, new
trails appear, old ones disappear, but it doesn't seem to cause any
problems, the undergrowth just grows back where the trails have gone out
of use.

Joe


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  #16  
Old January 10th 09, 10:12 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
harper
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Default Does MUni impact the trail more than MTB?


Naomi;1168150 wrote:
Assuming that road damage is indeed a 4th power function ( care to
explain why?)




No. But 'here is one of many'
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_axle_weight_rating) references.



...should that not therefore be 8 times the damage? Each MTB wheel
causing 1/16th the damage?




Yes. My ability (or willingness) to divide by two has diminished with
age.


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  #17  
Old January 11th 09, 09:20 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
JohnnyReggae
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Default Does MUni impact the trail more than MTB?


Bondo;1167567 wrote:
Does a Municycle have more or less impact on the trail than regular
Mountain Bikes?

For downhill I would think MUni does not skid as much so we are better
for the trail in that regards.

In tight turns/switchbacks though, the single point interface with the
trail may mean you grind up a bit more dirt in tight jerky turns. The
MTBers might flow through tight turns a little easier.

I'm sure some areas of the country may not consider their impact on the
trail as much. (Widening trails, double-tracking, shortcuts, deepening
trails, erosion etc)

Your thoughts?



There are some excellent MTB trails about 5km's from my house, Tokai
Forest, against the side of the Steenberg mountain in Cape Town. As it's
so close I go there very often. Having spent the last year riding there,
including through a very wet winter, I have noticed how dramatically
trails can get damaged.

In order of damage done:
1. Rain/water errosion
2. Horses
3. MTB'ers
4. MUni

The first is a given especially when you have steep trails. We had a
very wet winter for Cape Town and the damage on the trails by water
could be seen weekly.

I get so annoyed by the horse riders taking their horses down the
single tracks completly ripping up the trails with a single horse doing
more damage than 100 MTB's. I noticed this a lot during the winter
months when the damage would be even greater due to the muddy/loose
soil.

The MTB'ers here also tend to take the easiest line, or rather making
easier lines by just riding a new path on an existing trail,
particularly around some drops and turns. I put it down to pure lazyness
and an inability or unwillingness to actually ride the existing trail.
This obviously causes more erosion during the wet months of the year. It
seems that a large number of MTB'er do not care about the trails they
ride on and have personally seen a number of them just locking up their
rear wheels while going down some sections instead of riding them
properly, going around obstacles rather than over them widening the
trails.

MUni would do damage to the trails but I believe that the damage is far
less than an MTB. I also ride the trail and don't go bundu-bashing
because I can and damage the areas around the trail. I ride the drops
and whatever else is on the trail. I mean that is the point... isn't it
?

I would actually like to get involved with the trail building and
restoration in my area for 2 reasons. The first is because I ride the
trails I would like to contribute to maintaining them. Secondly, some
trail restoration that has taken place lately in Tokai Forest has really
"dumbed down" some of the trails, making them much easier for the
"everyday" MTB'er taking away some of the trails technical points which
is a little frustrating. I believe that if you can't ride the trail...
don't ... or at least practice so that you can. Don't "dumb-down" the
trail because you're to lazy to increase your skill level. (rant over)



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  #18  
Old January 11th 09, 06:54 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
rob.northcott
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Default Does MUni impact the trail more than MTB?


johnfoss;1167612 wrote:
we definitely put more weight down per square inch of tire coverage. I
would venture to say that our non-braking impact on the trail is perhaps
a little larger than that of a bike, especially with our fat tires, that
displace a lot of mud and leave wide indentations behind.



I don't agree with that. My (fairly typical) xc mountain bike had 1.9"
tyres running at about 40psi. My (fairly typical) muni has a 3" tyre
running at 18psi. Although the muni tyre is carrying the entire weight
of the cycle and rider on one tyre, a low pressure tyre with a big
contact patch will put less weight per square inch of contact than the
narrower, harder bike tyres.

Also, the fact that you have to ride smoothly on a unicycle in order to
keep balance I reckon means we probably do LESS damage than the average
bike.

But (apart from idiots locking back wheels all the time) a rolling
wheeled machine does FAR less damage than a horse rider, who seem to
think it's the cyclists that are the evil ones.

Rob


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  #19  
Old January 11th 09, 07:31 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
entropy
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Default Does MUni impact the trail more than MTB?


It is counter-productive to blame one type of trail user for damage more
than any other. Quantification attempts in this context, like harper,
are silly.

Use it? Help maintain it.


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  #20  
Old January 11th 09, 11:33 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
rob.northcott
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Default Does MUni impact the trail more than MTB?


entropy;1168806 wrote:
It is counter-productive to blame one type of trail user for damage more
than any other.



My post wasn't really intended to point blame, although it did come
across that way (horse riders are given a pretty free rein round here,
while cycle-legal trails are becoming more and more limited due to
perceived damage caused, which annoys me).


entropy;1168806 wrote:
Use it? Help maintain it.



Absolutely.


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