Carbon Bikes and Quality Control

On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:07:48 PM UTC-7, wrote:
snip
I bought an IRD fork off of the Internet. Since they are an Italian company they felt no need to entertain American tort laws.


IRD Italian?

AFAIK all IRD products are ROC origin and the URL
registration lists as Colma CA.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My lawyer traced it to an Italian company and it was Italian lawyers that responded. Perhaps since it has been sold but this was 2012.

IRD was started in the mid-80s by a couple of guys in Southern Oregon. No Italian connection whatsoever. It is a brand owned by Interloc Design Group, a privately owned company in the Bay Area. AFAIK, all Asian production. The Mosaic forks look like Kinesis forks from ten years ago.

-- Jay Beattie.

The forks had a large IRD emblazoned upon them. The doesn't sound like IDG to me. Tell you what, I can put you in touch with my lawyer at a large firm and you can tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'm not sure of the relationship between Interloc Racing Design and Interloc Design Group except for what's on the IRD website, which says the former is a brand owned by the latter. Both are related to Merry Sales. It is likely that IRD is now just a house brand of Merry Sales or that Merry Sales owns IRD/IDG. A phone call would probably clear it up. No Italian connection anywhere. Did your attorney have a phone and an internet connection? See if its too late for a malpractice action.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 3:20:02 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 10:32:08 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 10:08:22 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I don't know if any of this is actually performed. My guess(tm) is
that they do an overall vibration test to look for gross errors. If
something is found, they simply trash the frame because it's cheaper
to do so than to perform difficult corrective repairs and patch work
on a built up frame.

Our local CF inspection and repair outfit: http://www.ruckuscomp.com/process
Scroll down on the page (graphic restoration). Note to Tom: stop buying Colnagos.
-- Jay Beattie.

Such repair shops are great for fixing damage to an individual
bicycle, which can be an economical alternative to buying a new frame
($300 to maybe $2,000). However, for a factory production line in
China, the cost of repair would far exceed the cost to manufacture for
the frame. That's only the frame because the bicycle hasn't been
loaded with attachments, accouterments, and bolt-ons quite yet. That
makes the frame somewhat cheap, making it more economical to throw it
out instead of repair it.

It would be interesting to rent or borrow one of these ultrasonic
inspection instruments, and run through the inventory at an LBS (local
bike shop). If your suspicions and allegations are correct, it should
identify some defects.

If you have time, give the Ruckus Composites people a visit or call.
Ask if they have any ultrasonic inspection equipment, which model, how
it's used, etc.


What is an accouterment ?

On 6/1/2017 4:43 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 3:20:02 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 10:32:08 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 10:08:22 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I don't know if any of this is actually performed. My guess(tm) is
that they do an overall vibration test to look for gross errors. If
something is found, they simply trash the frame because it's cheaper
to do so than to perform difficult corrective repairs and patch work
on a built up frame.

Our local CF inspection and repair outfit: http://www.ruckuscomp.com/process
Scroll down on the page (graphic restoration). Note to Tom: stop buying Colnagos.
-- Jay Beattie.

Such repair shops are great for fixing damage to an individual
bicycle, which can be an economical alternative to buying a new frame
($300 to maybe $2,000). However, for a factory production line in
China, the cost of repair would far exceed the cost to manufacture for
the frame. That's only the frame because the bicycle hasn't been
loaded with attachments, accouterments, and bolt-ons quite yet. That
makes the frame somewhat cheap, making it more economical to throw it
out instead of repair it.

It would be interesting to rent or borrow one of these ultrasonic
inspection instruments, and run through the inventory at an LBS (local
bike shop). If your suspicions and allegations are correct, it should
identify some defects.

If you have time, give the Ruckus Composites people a visit or call.
Ask if they have any ultrasonic inspection equipment, which model, how
it's used, etc.


What is an accouterment ?



geegaws and bric-a-brac:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/accoutrement?s=t

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 14:43:38 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:

What is an accouterment ?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/accouterment
"An accessory item of equipment or dress."

For bicycling, it's all the bolt-on crap that people hang on their
machines to perform some function that is only marginally relevant to
cycling. However, since the markup is much higher on these items,
they've become an important supplement to the bottom line of the LSB.

It can also mean:
"Outward forms of recognition; trappings"
which might be like leaving the price tag hanging on your CF bicycle
so that gawkers will be impressed by how much you overpaid for it.

Next time you go for a club ride, ask someone "How do you like my new
accouterments"? and see if you get a reaction. Those with military,
advertising, political, or clothing design experience will probably
respond properly. Everyone else will probably say "Say What"?

Hint: Beyond some basic level of transportation, many riders wear
their machines instead of riding them. The distinction is subtle, but
significant.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 01 Jun 2017 16:52:32 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/1/2017 4:43 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
What is an accouterment ?

geegaws and bric-a-brac:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/accoutrement?s=t

I think we were discussing Giant Manufacturing Co Ltd carbon fiber
bicycles, which would also qualify such accouterments as kitsch:
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/kitsch
https://www.google.com/search?q=kitsch&tbm=isch
https://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+kitsch&tbm=isch

There's also retro-kitsch such as Sprocket Man:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sprocket+man&tbm=isch


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 6:08:08 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 14:43:38 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:

What is an accouterment ?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/accouterment
"An accessory item of equipment or dress."

For bicycling, it's all the bolt-on crap that people hang on their
machines to perform some function that is only marginally relevant to
cycling. However, since the markup is much higher on these items,
they've become an important supplement to the bottom line of the LSB.

It can also mean:
"Outward forms of recognition; trappings"
which might be like leaving the price tag hanging on your CF bicycle
so that gawkers will be impressed by how much you overpaid for it.

Next time you go for a club ride, ask someone "How do you like my new
accouterments"? and see if you get a reaction. Those with military,
advertising, political, or clothing design experience will probably
respond properly. Everyone else will probably say "Say What"?

Hint: Beyond some basic level of transportation, many riders wear
their machines instead of riding them. The distinction is subtle, but
significant.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Also icludes such things as front asd rear reflectors, reflective tape and wheel reflectors which by law have to be on every bike sold but which many bicyclists immediately remove as being unsightly. Same for a bell = required by law but most bicyclists would never dream of putting one on their bicycle.

YMMV

Cheers

On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 06:46:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 11:00:52 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2017 21:09:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 7:40:24 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2017 07:37:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 5:10:23 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 5/30/2017 4:58 PM, wrote:

snip

The bike shop submitted a claim to Cannondale. Cannondale came back with
their decision today and said they would offer me 20 percent off for
crash replacement.
This is how a "lifetime warranty" often ends up. It's really no warranty
at all. They get to decide if the defect was because of a design or
fabrication issue, or if it was due to something that they are not
responsible for. They know that the likelihood of a customer pursuing it
further is unlikely. They probably have some arbitration clause so you
couldn't sue them in small claims court, and the cost of arbitration is
more than the frame is worth.

I had this with something as stupid as "My Pillow". I was itching all the time so I was afraid that I had gotten bed bugs. (turned out to be old age) I washed the My Pillow as they say you can and after three dryer cycles it still wasn't dry. I put it out in the sun on a hot day all day long. It felt dry do I put it on my bed and the next time I went to change the pillow case it was mildewed.

I called the company and had to argue with them for 20 minutes before they agreed to replace it with their "Lifetime Guarantee".

Strange. You must be buying lower quality pillows, or you lack certain
"house keeping" skills, as my wife of forty some years has been
washing pillows ever since we were married (and probably before) and
not a one has mildewed :-)


Perhaps she doesn't put them in bedbug proof covers.

And perhaps we don't have bed bugs in our house. But more seriously
you are supposed to remove the covers and wash them separately.
--
Cheers,

John B.

I thought I made this clear in previous postings - when I was recovering from the concussion all of my skin itched so badly I thought I might have bedbugs. At the same time my vision was growing more and more far-sighted so that I had to wear glasses to see anything up close.

The itching turned out to be an allergy to synthetics but in the meantime I sprayed the mattress and bought new pillows.

One of the symptoms of a seizure is heavy sweating which completely soaks the bedding so I had to put covers on the mattress and pillows to keep them dry. Before I got the cover for the pillow I completely soaked it with a seizure while my medication was still being balanced.

I believe that most people use mattress covers. Some even use plastic
or waterproof covers.


People seem to think a concussion is no big deal - a headache for a little while. Just hope you don't get one. Each seizure destroys more of your memories. Luckily the portion of my brain effected is mostly social so my ability to think isn't impaired. But it could just as easily have turned me into a turnip. The way it is I can no longer visualize numbers. Even using a calculator I mistake which direction to move the decimal point to turn numbers into percentages.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 16:50:53 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Also icludes such things as front asd rear reflectors, reflective
tape and wheel reflectors which by law have to be on every bike
sold but which many bicyclists immediately remove as being
unsightly. Same for a bell = required by law but most bicyclists
would never dream of putting one on their bicycle.

I helped a friend purchase a bicycle at an LBS (local bike shop). I
was a bit surprised when the shop offered to supply the mandatory
pedal reflectors[1] in a bag or box instead of installing them on the
pedals. I didn't ask if that was to save the LBS the effort of
installing them, or save the buyer the effort of removing them. I
don't recall if it was the same story with the other reflectors.

Interesting that you should mention the bell. I have 3 or 4 bells,
all of which I consider to be junk. Problems vary from self
disassembly while riding to insufficient loudness where needed. I had
some of these on the bicycle I keep at the office and use for errands
around town. The bell has problems dealing with traffic and
construction noises. I think my next bell will be a horn type
loudspeaker driven by a sound effects generator. I want ALL the sound
to project in my direction of travel, and not wasted on anything to
the sides or rear. I don't know if I can design a loudspeaker with
sufficient directionality to do this, but I'll give it try (time
permitting).

YMMV

YMMV = "your mileage may vary". What phrase does one use in Europe
where kilometers are used instead of miles?

[1] From the California Vehicle Code:
Reflectors: At night bicycles must have the following reflectors:
Visible from the back: red reflector. You may attach a solid or
flashing red rear light in addition to the reflector.
Visible from the front & back: white or yellow reflector on each
pedal or on the bicyclist's shoes or ankles
Visible from the side: 1) white or yellow reflector on the front
half of the bicycle and 2) a red or white reflector on each side of
the back half of the bike. These reflectors are not required if the
bike has reflectorized front and back tires. CVC 21201(d)

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 6/2/2017 11:50 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I helped a friend purchase a bicycle at an LBS (local bike shop). I
was a bit surprised when the shop offered to supply the mandatory
pedal reflectors[1] in a bag or box instead of installing them on the
pedals. I didn't ask if that was to save the LBS the effort of
installing them, or save the buyer the effort of removing them. I
don't recall if it was the same story with the other reflectors.

I think it's disappointing that avid cyclists are so much against
reflectors, reflective tape etc. True, they're not a replacement for
lights; but they do aid conspicuity, they weigh almost nothing, they
require no power source, they can be inconspicuous. They're valuable if
a cyclist is ever out riding at night.

I think every bike without any reflectors should be forced to have a
label saying "This thing is just a toy."

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:29:32 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/2/2017 11:50 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I helped a friend purchase a bicycle at an LBS (local bike shop). I
was a bit surprised when the shop offered to supply the mandatory
pedal reflectors[1] in a bag or box instead of installing them on the
pedals. I didn't ask if that was to save the LBS the effort of
installing them, or save the buyer the effort of removing them. I
don't recall if it was the same story with the other reflectors.

I think it's disappointing that avid cyclists are so much against
reflectors, reflective tape etc. True, they're not a replacement for
lights; but they do aid conspicuity, they weigh almost nothing, they
require no power source, they can be inconspicuous. They're valuable if
a cyclist is ever out riding at night.

I think every bike without any reflectors should be forced to have a
label saying "This thing is just a toy."


But Frank, Reflectors are so un-cool.
--
Cheers,

John B.