Carbon Bikes and Quality Control

On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 08:50:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 16:50:53 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Also icludes such things as front asd rear reflectors, reflective
tape and wheel reflectors which by law have to be on every bike
sold but which many bicyclists immediately remove as being
unsightly. Same for a bell = required by law but most bicyclists
would never dream of putting one on their bicycle.

I helped a friend purchase a bicycle at an LBS (local bike shop). I
was a bit surprised when the shop offered to supply the mandatory
pedal reflectors[1] in a bag or box instead of installing them on the
pedals. I didn't ask if that was to save the LBS the effort of
installing them, or save the buyer the effort of removing them. I
don't recall if it was the same story with the other reflectors.

I bought a pair of Shimano pedals that had removable reflectors which
came separate from the pedals in the box.

As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they
assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas
which peddle is "best".


Interesting that you should mention the bell. I have 3 or 4 bells,
all of which I consider to be junk. Problems vary from self
disassembly while riding to insufficient loudness where needed. I had
some of these on the bicycle I keep at the office and use for errands
around town. The bell has problems dealing with traffic and
construction noises. I think my next bell will be a horn type
loudspeaker driven by a sound effects generator. I want ALL the sound
to project in my direction of travel, and not wasted on anything to
the sides or rear. I don't know if I can design a loudspeaker with
sufficient directionality to do this, but I'll give it try (time
permitting).


You can buy a "fog Horn" that is powered by some sort of compressed
gas that will, I guarantee, blow a hole in either a crowd of
pedestrian or maybe even 10 wheel trucks :-)
https://www.amazon.com/Air-Horn-misc.../dp/B002DG967W

But of course, this would be tremendously un-cool. Far better a dainty
little thing that you can flick with your thumb and goes "tinkle,
tinkle".


YMMV

YMMV = "your mileage may vary". What phrase does one use in Europe
where kilometers are used instead of miles?

[1] From the California Vehicle Code:
Reflectors: At night bicycles must have the following reflectors:
Visible from the back: red reflector. You may attach a solid or
flashing red rear light in addition to the reflector.
Visible from the front & back: white or yellow reflector on each
pedal or on the bicyclist's shoes or ankles
Visible from the side: 1) white or yellow reflector on the front
half of the bicycle and 2) a red or white reflector on each side of
the back half of the bike. These reflectors are not required if the
bike has reflectorized front and back tires. CVC 21201(d)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 10:25:57 +0700, John B.
wrote:

As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they
assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas
which peddle is "best".

I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a
peddler. At that price level, buyers would likely be using cleated
shoes making the standard pedal a remove throw away item, like the
reflectors. I noticed the practice at an LBS and asked why none of
the bicycles on the racks had pedals. I was told that it's so they
are short on floor space can pack more bicycles together if they left
off the pedals. Although it was not mentioned, I suspect it was also
to keep some enterprising thief from just jumping onto a bicycle in
the showroom and riding off into the sunset.

You can buy a "fog Horn" that is powered by some sort of compressed
gas that will, I guarantee, blow a hole in either a crowd of
pedestrian or maybe even 10 wheel trucks :-)
https://www.amazon.com/Air-Horn-misc.../dp/B002DG967W

That's rather extreme. I don't want to cause a panic. A bell is
fine, but I want the sound to project forward more than to the sides
and back, where people don't need to hear it. Such products already
exist, but I want to make my own.
https://www.google.com/search?q=electronic+bicycle+bell&tbm=isch
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=electronic+bicycle+bell

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 6/3/2017 2:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 10:25:57 +0700, John B.
wrote:

As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they
assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas
which peddle is "best".

I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a
peddler. At that price level, buyers would likely be using cleated
shoes making the standard pedal a remove throw away item, like the
reflectors. I noticed the practice at an LBS and asked why none of
the bicycles on the racks had pedals. I was told that it's so they
are short on floor space can pack more bicycles together if they left
off the pedals.

I might believe that if it applied to handlebars. I can't see how
removing pedals would save much room.

Before "clipless" (also known, weirdly enough, as "clip-in") pedals, all
bikes in shops had pedals installed, and essentially all shoes fit
essentially all pedals.

Now high end bike buyers tend to have their own favorite pedal+shoe
combinations, with many being incompatible. So pedals are left off the
high end bikes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 11:46:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 10:25:57 +0700, John B.
wrote:

As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they
assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas
which peddle is "best".

I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a

Well yes, but in defense it might be noted that Samuel Clemens once
said "I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of
spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all
dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing".

peddler. At that price level, buyers would likely be using cleated
shoes making the standard pedal a remove throw away item, like the
reflectors. I noticed the practice at an LBS and asked why none of
the bicycles on the racks had pedals. I was told that it's so they
are short on floor space can pack more bicycles together if they left
off the pedals. Although it was not mentioned, I suspect it was also
to keep some enterprising thief from just jumping onto a bicycle in
the showroom and riding off into the sunset.

You can buy a "fog Horn" that is powered by some sort of compressed
gas that will, I guarantee, blow a hole in either a crowd of
pedestrian or maybe even 10 wheel trucks :-)
https://www.amazon.com/Air-Horn-misc.../dp/B002DG967W

That's rather extreme. I don't want to cause a panic. A bell is
fine, but I want the sound to project forward more than to the sides
and back, where people don't need to hear it. Such products already
exist, but I want to make my own.
https://www.google.com/search?q=electronic+bicycle+bell&tbm=isch
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=electronic+bicycle+bell

The best bike bell I've seen mounted on the fork and the "striker" was
actuated by the spokes so that when you "rang the bell" it went ding,
ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding...

Somewhat similar to
https://oldbike.wordpress.com/1949-nsu-gents-bicycle/
although that one is driven by the tire.

I had a bell on my "utility bike for a while but people don't seem to
pay attentiion to a meek and mild "ding ding" any more so I just say
"EXCUSE ME" in a loud voice which seems to work pretty well.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 21:59:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/3/2017 2:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 10:25:57 +0700, John B.
wrote:

As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they
assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas
which peddle is "best".

I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a
peddler. At that price level, buyers would likely be using cleated
shoes making the standard pedal a remove throw away item, like the
reflectors. I noticed the practice at an LBS and asked why none of
the bicycles on the racks had pedals. I was told that it's so they
are short on floor space can pack more bicycles together if they left
off the pedals.

I might believe that if it applied to handlebars. I can't see how
removing pedals would save much room.

The bicycles were fairly tightly stacked together (and also hanging
from the ceiling). The handlebars partly extend over the adjacent
bicycle's top tube and are slightly staggered to keep alternate
handlebars from hitting each other. Something like this, but on the
floor, not the wall:
https://cdn.instructables.com/F2J/R9UO/J2JET9K5Q2T/F2JR9UOJ2JET9K5Q2T.RECT2100.jpg
I'll try to drop in next week and take a few photos. It's been a
while and they may have rearranged the LBS or reduced their inventory.

Before "clipless" (also known, weirdly enough, as "clip-in") pedals, all
bikes in shops had pedals installed, and essentially all shoes fit
essentially all pedals.

They don't fit my slightly oversized steel toe construction boots,
which I often wear to work. One some of my machines, my toes hit the
back end of the front wheel.
http://www.sears.com/wolverine-men-s-cirrus-safety-toe-hiker-brown/p-067T0171000P
Platform pedals help, but if I tried to ride a department store
machine wearing these boots, I would have problems.

Now high end bike buyers tend to have their own favorite pedal+shoe
combinations, with many being incompatible. So pedals are left off the
high end bikes.

Yep. Standards are a good thing. Every company should have as many
as possible.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 09:08:20 +0700, John B.
wrote:

I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a

Well yes, but in defense it might be noted that Samuel Clemens once
said "I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of
spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all
dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing".

I agree. Therefore, I rarely mis-spell my errors the same way twice.
Same with my grammar errors. I do have a proper proofreader, but she
has the weekend off. I have to survive with only my spelling chequer.

The best bike bell I've seen mounted on the fork and the "striker" was
actuated by the spokes so that when you "rang the bell" it went ding,
ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding...

That's mechanically clever, but easily duplicated electronically. I
guess I should add a switch to my electronic bell labeled; off, semi
auto, full auto.

I had a bell on my "utility bike for a while but people don't seem to
pay attentiion to a meek and mild "ding ding" any more so I just say
"EXCUSE ME" in a loud voice which seems to work pretty well.

Exactly one of the problems I'm trying to solve. I was thinking of
simply installing a forward facing parabolic reflector with a
mechanical bell at the focus to reflect as much sound forward as
possible. However, that would be like installing a drogue chute on my
machine. Some manner of horn type loudspeaker should be sufficient.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 10:32:08 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 21:59:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/3/2017 2:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 10:25:57 +0700, John B.
wrote:

As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they
assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas
which peddle is "best".

I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a
peddler. At that price level, buyers would likely be using cleated
shoes making the standard pedal a remove throw away item, like the
reflectors. I noticed the practice at an LBS and asked why none of
the bicycles on the racks had pedals. I was told that it's so they
are short on floor space can pack more bicycles together if they left
off the pedals.

I might believe that if it applied to handlebars. I can't see how
removing pedals would save much room.

The bicycles were fairly tightly stacked together (and also hanging
from the ceiling). The handlebars partly extend over the adjacent
bicycle's top tube and are slightly staggered to keep alternate
handlebars from hitting each other. Something like this, but on the
floor, not the wall:
https://cdn.instructables.com/F2J/R9UO/J2JET9K5Q2T/F2JR9UOJ2JET9K5Q2T.RECT2100.jpg
I'll try to drop in next week and take a few photos. It's been a
while and they may have rearranged the LBS or reduced their inventory.

Before "clipless" (also known, weirdly enough, as "clip-in") pedals, all
bikes in shops had pedals installed, and essentially all shoes fit
essentially all pedals.

They don't fit my slightly oversized steel toe construction boots,
which I often wear to work. One some of my machines, my toes hit the
back end of the front wheel.
http://www.sears.com/wolverine-men-s-cirrus-safety-toe-hiker-brown/p-067T0171000P
Platform pedals help, but if I tried to ride a department store
machine wearing these boots, I would have problems.

Now high end bike buyers tend to have their own favorite pedal+shoe
combinations, with many being incompatible. So pedals are left off the
high end bikes.

Yep. Standards are a good thing. Every company should have as many
as possible.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

If the pedals are removed you can hang bicycles close together by hanging one from the front wheel, the next one by the rear wheel, the next one by the front wheels. Removing the pedals helps to keep the bikes from getting scratched and also make lifting them down or up again easier as the pedals aren't there to get snagged on something such as the other bike's wheels or frame.

Cheers

On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 19:46:43 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 09:08:20 +0700, John B.
wrote:

I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a

Well yes, but in defense it might be noted that Samuel Clemens once
said "I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of
spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all
dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing".

I agree. Therefore, I rarely mis-spell my errors the same way twice.
Same with my grammar errors. I do have a proper proofreader, but she
has the weekend off. I have to survive with only my spelling chequer.

The best bike bell I've seen mounted on the fork and the "striker" was
actuated by the spokes so that when you "rang the bell" it went ding,
ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding...

That's mechanically clever, but easily duplicated electronically. I
guess I should add a switch to my electronic bell labeled; off, semi
auto, full auto.

I had a bell on my "utility bike for a while but people don't seem to
pay attentiion to a meek and mild "ding ding" any more so I just say
"EXCUSE ME" in a loud voice which seems to work pretty well.

Exactly one of the problems I'm trying to solve. I was thinking of
simply installing a forward facing parabolic reflector with a
mechanical bell at the focus to reflect as much sound forward as
possible. However, that would be like installing a drogue chute on my
machine. Some manner of horn type loudspeaker should be sufficient.

Well, if you are going to be all electronic there should be no problem
to have a "tinkle, tinkle" setting, a "ding, ding" setting and a "GET
OUT THE F--KING WAY!" setting.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 14:37:28 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Well, if you are going to be all electronic there should be no problem
to have a "tinkle, tinkle" setting, a "ding, ding" setting and a "GET
OUT THE F--KING WAY!" setting.

All good ideas but I think some psychology might be better. I think
I'll try synthesizing the sound of an iPhone ringing. That should
stop anyone ahead in their tracks as they look down at their iPhone to
see who's calling. Since they've now stopped moving, I can usually
weave (or zip) around them. If that doesn't work, I'll try the
doppler shifted sound of screeching tires.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 6/3/2017 9:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 09:08:20 +0700, John B.
wrote:
-snip bells-

That's mechanically clever, but easily duplicated electronically. I
guess I should add a switch to my electronic bell labeled; off, semi
auto, full auto.


mmmm, selector switch...

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971